KPL linked directly to Fanlinc. KPL added to ISY but not following commands

[dsstrainer]

I just replaced my switch for light and fan with a KPL and a Fanlinc. Everything worked great. I manually linked the two devices to each other directly without the ISY involved. But then I linked just the KPL to the ISY so I could still use Alexa to turn things on/off. I see the KPL in the admin UI and I can see the current status updating when I manually turn the buttons on or off. But when I send an off command from the admin panel for either the light or the different fan speeds, the status updates to "off".. but the actual light it still on. It doesn't actually do what it says it is doing. Any idea why this might be?

Edited May 20, 2019 by dsstrainer

[lilyoyo1]

You should never link devices outside of the isy as the isy would not be aware of them which is partly why your set up is not working.

The other part is the isy ONLY talks to the device that you are having it talk to. You need to add both devices to the isy, create the scenes properly and then add the scenes to Alexa to control. 

I would recommend taking the time to read the wiki and different posts on the forum to familiarize yourself with how the isy works. 

[dsstrainer]

That's a bit of a canned answer.. Logically I would think it should work

If I tap you on the shoulder and you run and tell somebody "something".. even if I don't know what you are saying to that person, it doesn't change the fact that when I tap your shoulder, you run and do "something". So logically I shouldn't need to know the other device.. I would think I only need to know the KPL so when I tell the KPL to turn on.. it turns on "Something" which means it simply closes its relays. I'm well versed in ISY but sometimes I try to think outside the box.

Edited May 20, 2019 by dsstrainer

[mwester]

59 minutes ago, dsstrainer said:

That's a bit of a canned answer.. Logically I would think it should work

If I tap you on the shoulder and you run and tell somebody "something".. even if I don't know what you are saying to that person, it doesn't change the fact that when I tap your shoulder, you run and do "something". So logically I shouldn't need to know the other device.. I would think I only need to know the KPL so when I tell the KPL to turn on.. it turns on "Something" which means it simply closes its relays. I'm well versed in ISY but sometimes I try to think outside the box.

Alas, that's not how Insteon scenes work.

When you linked the two devices manually, one was the controller and the other the responder -- the PLM was not involved.  When you added the device to the PLM, another scene was created, involving the PLM as the controller and the device as the responder -- note that the other device was not involved in that link (it exists solely so that the PLM (ISY) can control and monitor that device).

So, given those two scenes, when you turn on the device from the ISY, according to the Insteon protocol, the device that you tapped on the shoulder is specifically, per protocol, to turn itself on (or off) -- it is NOT to run off to do "something" because that activity is a DIFFERENT scene (which you defined manually, and thus it isn't even possible for the ISY to add itself to that other scene).

So, while it might be logical, or "out of the box", none of that matters because that's not how the Insteon designers built the devices.  I'm afraid you're going to have to delete that manually-created scene and re-create it from the ISY in order to have it work they way you wish.

Edited May 20, 2019 by mwester

[larryllix]

Quote

"I would think I only need to know the KPL so when I tell the KPL to turn on."

This may be a slip of the tongue but sending codes to the KPL is not controlling the FanLinc. You are tapping the wrong person's shoulder. Not a good process to attempt without ISY, agreed, but it sounds like it should have worked. This seems to present that ISY made an assumption and didn't go by actual status of the device. Usually a "Query" will correct the status error.

Edited May 20, 2019 by larryllix

[dsstrainer]

Thanks for the tips. Luckily the solution was fairly simple

It does seem like the "scene" aspect is what was confusing my expectation of the logic. As you noted Larry, the codes to KPL doesn't control the fanlinc.. it just controls the KPL lights... but it's the "scene" that controls the fanlinc which is triggered by the controller/responder relationship of the 2. So I'm tapping on his shoulder, and he says he's going to run and tell somebody.. but doesn't actually do it because he doesn't actually have somebody to tell.

So I left the direct links alone but simply setup a separate scene for both devices in ISY. Now it works fine from the switch to the fanlinc with its direct linking... and also has a separate scene for them in my ISY. Since it's just a state machine in the end, the admin ui reflects the current state of the scene regardless of manual switching or programmatic.

Thanks again!

Edited May 20, 2019 by dsstrainer

[Michel Kohanim]

@dsstrainer,

I am glad it worked but, as @mwester eloquently described, when PLM is involved, things are different. Furthermore, I am worried that - in the future - if you decide to do something with status of devices, nothing is going to work and then we'll be back to your philosophical analogies. As such, may I humbly suggest you follow the instructions here?

With kind regards,
Michel

 

[dsstrainer]

I guess the main reason for direct linking is to remove dependency on a hub if the hub goes down. A localized switch-to-light relationship is more ideal, especially since the hub is on the opposite side of the house. But I don't disagree that going against the grain is going to potentially cause future issues. I'll do some more playing around with it.

Also, you know you love my anthropomorphic analogies

Edited May 20, 2019 by dsstrainer

[Michel Kohanim]

@dsstrainer,

I was never good in anthropology so I missed it . 

Your first assumption is false. The beauty of ISY is that it creates all these manual links for you so that a) you don't have to do it and b) ISY will know the status of things. If you remove ISY, you KPL and FanLinc will continue to work as is. In short - let me see if I can give you an anthropomorphic analogy - ISY is not like a traffic cop directing traffic. 

With kind regards,
Michel

[dsstrainer]

Now that you say it... I realize I knew that.. but in my thinking about it I forgot.. so you are right.. there is no real reason for me to do it manually. Thanks for the kick

Edited May 20, 2019 by dsstrainer