Hue vs Lifx on isy

[lilyoyo1]

1 minute ago, Blackbird said:

To me a BR30 and GU10 are meant for aiming down at the floor 90% of the fixtures I have seen.  When you guys keep saying upside down, what exactly are you talking about?  Gu10 and br30 aiming at the ceiling?

Only 1 person said they can't be hung upside down. I'm assuming he's talking about regular bulbs. However I've never seen or heard it to be an issue

[simplextech]

3 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Only 1 person said they can't be hung upside down. I'm assuming he's talking about regular bulbs. However I've never seen or heard it to be an issue

Never heard of this until today either.  I'm interested in learning the "Why" about this....

[giomania]

Perhaps he was posting that the bulbs can’t be used in “the upside down”?

Stranger things season 3 comes out tomorrow after all!




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[Blackbird]

I will probably go with  Lifix and probably have 2 gu10 on one switch above my tv and 2 gu10 on a seperate switch above my chair.  I did buy the polisy.  Below are a few scenarios I'm interested in having answered. 

I'm curious about delay and how long you think it will take to perform the following functions.  Based on scenes and programs.

1. Motion sensor goes off outside and my light above the tv turns red with the switch initially off.

2. Motion sensor goes off outside and my light above the tv turns red with the switch already on and the bulb is initially white.

3. Walk into the room where the lights are off and double tap the switch on to turn the light above the tv to blue.

4.  The same switch above the tv is already on and white then double tap on (fast on) and the light turns blue

5.  Light is off.  "Hey google turn the light above the tv, blue"

Thanks

[upstatemike]

49 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Only 1 person said they can't be hung upside down. I'm assuming he's talking about regular bulbs. However I've never seen or heard it to be an issue

The reason it is an issue is because the convection cooling that bulbs depend on does not work efficiently if the bulb is not oriented in the upright position. I don't recall all of the places i have read this but here is one I was able to pull up after a quick search. https://answers.angieslist.com/LED-lights-philips-hue-lifx-bulbs-enclosed-light-fixture-q233631.aspx

 

I also found this on the Lifx site that seems to contradict what I had read previously:

Does the light bulb position matter?

Yes. Light bulbs positioned straight up or straight down will generally run cooler than sideways. The hot convection air flow flows past more of the bulb length, so it cools a bit more effectively. Sideways is still acceptable though and tested to be within normal operating temperature ranges. In testing, the heat sink on a sideways mounted LIFX A21 bulb in a ceiling mounted semi-enclosed fitting was around 85°C (185°F), but more importantly, the power supply electronics temperature measured 75°C (167°F), and the driver control electronics was kept at 53°C (127°F), a good advantage.

Room temperature was 28°C (82°F) for this and the CFL heat comparison. For comparison, a similar lumen output CFL lamp in the same test was running a glass temperature of 120°C (248°F) and electronics temperature of 85°C (185°F).32°C higher than the LED based system.

So I guess inverted is OK after all.

 

[lilyoyo1]

46 minutes ago, Blackbird said:

I will probably go with  Lifix and probably have 2 gu10 on one switch above my tv and 2 gu10 on a seperate switch above my chair.  I did buy the polisy.  Below are a few scenarios I'm interested in having answered. 

I'm curious about delay and how long you think it will take to perform the following functions.  Based on scenes and programs.

1. Motion sensor goes off outside and my light above the tv turns red with the switch initially off.

2. Motion sensor goes off outside and my light above the tv turns red with the switch already on and the bulb is initially white.

3. Walk into the room where the lights are off and double tap the switch on to turn the light above the tv to blue.

4.  The same switch above the tv is already on and white then double tap on (fast on) and the light turns blue

5.  Light is off.  "Hey google turn the light above the tv, blue"

Thanks

No one can answer that definitively. It depends on a variety of factors at any given time. The delay for my lamps with hue bulbs is generally no more than a second. Depending on your network, interference, other programs running it could be anywhere from a second to a few seconds. 

Your #5 scenario will probably take longest since the request has to go out to Google servers and back to your house. Shouldn't be longer than anything else you currently voice control. 

[lilyoyo1]

3 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

The reason it is an issue is because the convection cooling that bulbs depend on does not work efficiently if the bulb is not oriented in the upright position. I don't recall all of the places i have read this but here is one I was able to pull up after a quick search. https://answers.angieslist.com/LED-lights-philips-hue-lifx-bulbs-enclosed-light-fixture-q233631.aspx

 

I also found this on the Lifx site that seems to contradict what I had read previously:

Does the light bulb position matter?

Yes. Light bulbs positioned straight up or straight down will generally run cooler than sideways. The hot convection air flow flows past more of the bulb length, so it cools a bit more effectively. Sideways is still acceptable though and tested to be within normal operating temperature ranges. In testing, the heat sink on a sideways mounted LIFX A21 bulb in a ceiling mounted semi-enclosed fitting was around 85°C (185°F), but more importantly, the power supply electronics temperature measured 75°C (167°F), and the driver control electronics was kept at 53°C (127°F), a good advantage.

Room temperature was 28°C (82°F) for this and the CFL heat comparison. For comparison, a similar lumen output CFL lamp in the same test was running a glass temperature of 120°C (248°F) and electronics temperature of 85°C (185°F).32°C higher than the LED based system.

So I guess inverted is OK after all.

 

It makes sense but in the end it doesn't matter to me. I'm actually waiting for mine to die so I can justify getting the new version. My first generation has been outside for years now hanging upside down (and thats with southern humidity). There's many people online with the same experiences.

From a company standpoint, I can see them being cautious and wanting their products used with optimal placement to maximize it's life expectancy

[larryllix]

2 hours ago, upstatemike said:

The reason it is an issue is because the convection cooling that bulbs depend on does not work efficiently if the bulb is not oriented in the upright position. I don't recall all of the places i have read this but here is one I was able to pull up after a quick search. https://answers.angieslist.com/LED-lights-philips-hue-lifx-bulbs-enclosed-light-fixture-q233631.aspx

 

I also found this on the Lifx site that seems to contradict what I had read previously:

Does the light bulb position matter?

<snipped>

So I guess inverted is OK after all.

 

Not smart bulbs but I have 27W, BR40 bulbs mounted in pot light sockets, in my R50 insulated ceilings. I have burned my hand on them trying to remove them.  Only one of the six has become defective over about 5-6 years.

Now I try to keep most of  my scenes using them  at about 85-90% for their usage. The face of the bulb stays cool and when you unscrew it from the ceiling the sides have a surprise waiting for you, frying your skin. I almost had to drop the first one to the floor but managed to throw it onto a pillow until I got down off the ladder. Solid state electronics don't last long at those temperatures.

Edited July 3, 2019 by larryllix

[Blackbird]

3 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

No one can answer that definitively. It depends on a variety of factors at any given time. The delay for my lamps with hue bulbs is generally no more than a second. Depending on your network, interference, other programs running it could be anywhere from a second to a few seconds. 

Your #5 scenario will probably take longest since the request has to go out to Google servers and back to your house. Shouldn't be longer than anything else you currently voice control. 

Is it usually more than 1 second delay for these scenarios?

[lilyoyo1]

7 minutes ago, Blackbird said:

Is it usually more than 1 second delay for these scenarios?

It can be. However no one can say how things will be in your home. We don't live there to see how your network is used, bandwidth at any given moment, construction material, program setup, lifestyle, etc. You just have to try and see. 

[Blackbird]

40 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

It can be. However no one can say how things will be in your home. We don't live there to see how your network is used, bandwidth at any given moment, construction material, program setup, lifestyle, etc. You just have to try and see. 

I'm not going to tell at anyone if it's not exact.  I just want to know what others have experienced.  That's all

[lilyoyo1]

37 minutes ago, Blackbird said:

I'm not going to tell at anyone if it's not exact.  I just want to know what others have experienced.  That's all

I gave you the best answer anyone can give you. It could be a second or less. It could be 2-3 seconds. Sometimes it may be more. The best thing to do is buy one or 2, set them up, and see how it responds. 

[Blackbird]

Thanks for your opinion.  I would also like to here from others.

Thanks

[simplextech]

As @lilyoyo1 said the time variance between issuing a voice command to the action occurring is a variable.  The speed variable depends on a couple of things.  Are you doing a voice command direct to the skill or first going to ISY then to the device?  For my Hue and LiFX I have their skills setup independent of the ISY for voice commands.  The speed i see on good days is near instant I say and there's the light... then on other days I say turn on the light and it's a couple of seconds and the echo lights just spin and then there's the light.....

[Blackbird]

11 minutes ago, simplextech said:

As @lilyoyo1 said the time variance between issuing a voice command to the action occurring is a variable.  The speed variable depends on a couple of things.  Are you doing a voice command direct to the skill or first going to ISY then to the device?  For my Hue and LiFX I have their skills setup independent of the ISY for voice commands.  The speed i see on good days is near instant I say and there's the light... then on other days I say turn on the light and it's a couple of seconds and the echo lights just spin and then there's the light.....

Thanks for your input

[Blackbird]

When you are using the polyglot for lifx, how do you get the isy to turn the light to an exact color?  Does the isy know the current color of the bulb?

[simplextech]

50 minutes ago, Blackbird said:

When you are using the polyglot for lifx, how do you get the isy to turn the light to an exact color?  Does the isy know the current color of the bulb?

Yes sorta.  The color is represented by numeric values of the hue, saturation, brightness and color temperature.  There is also a drop down for color selection... example screenshot of mine.

 

[Blackbird]

48 minutes ago, simplextech said:

Yes sorta.  The color is represented by numeric values of the hue, saturation, brightness and color temperature.  There is also a drop down for color selection... example screenshot of mine.

 

So if you have a favorite color can you look on the isy and see the current setting?

[simplextech]

2 minutes ago, Blackbird said:

So if you have a favorite color can you look on the isy and see the current setting?

Only in numeric value not in string value.... so you won't see "Electric Blue" you will see the hue, sat, brightness, etc in the values...

ISY limitation of not supporting "string" values....

[Blackbird]

Ok thanks very much

[Bumbershoot]

On 7/3/2019 at 2:21 PM, Blackbird said:

Thanks for your opinion.  I would also like to here from others.

I use the LiFX nodeserver to manipulate a light that illuminates an architectural feature in the house that's centrally located.  This is to inform occupants of any Elk zones that might be violated.  Violating an Elk zone triggers a sequence of three or four programs that run, one of which changes the status of a LiFX bulb.   Normally, the light is changed within about a second of the change of state in the Elk zone.  This isn't as responsive as an Insteon linked motion sensor turning on a light, but more like a Z-Wave motion sensor turning on a light, maybe slightly slower.

Here's a sample program that turns the light to a cyan color:

ArtLightCyan - [ID 00BC][Parent 000A][Not Enabled]

If
        'Devices / dirNodeServers / LiFX / LiFX Controller / LIFX Art Light' Status is 0.0000%
    And Program 'ArtLightOnHours' is False
 
Then
        Set 'Devices / dirNodeServers / LiFX / LiFX Controller / LIFX Art Light' On
        Set 'Devices / dirNodeServers / LiFX / LiFX Controller / LIFX Art Light'  Hue 29696 Saturation 65535 Brightness 20000 Color Temp 3500° K in 0 ms
 
Else
        Set 'Devices / dirNodeServers / LiFX / LiFX Controller / LIFX Art Light'  Hue 29696 Saturation 65535 Brightness 20000 Color Temp 3500° K in 0 ms
 

 

[Blackbird]

Can you have the isy make the Lifx bulbs, strobe?

[Bumbershoot]

9 hours ago, Blackbird said:

Can you have the isy make the Lifx bulbs, strobe?

There are some utilities provided with the lifxlan source code that allows for some mischief with the lights.  I figured out that I can use the NodeLink relay server and a network resource on my ISY to call the Python scripts on my RPi.  I haven't used them except occasionally, and I don't know how all the effects look.  Here's a look at the directory containing the example scripts provided by the lifxlan source code install:

pi@raspberrypi:~/src/lifxlan/examples $ ls -alt
total 68
drwxr-xr-x 2 pi pi 4096 Feb 23  2018 .
-rw-r--r-- 1 pi pi  911 Feb 23  2018 hello_world.py
drwxr-xr-x 5 pi pi 4096 Feb 19  2018 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 pi pi 2414 Feb 19  2018 blink_all.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 pi pi 2213 Feb 19  2018 blink.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 pi pi 2175 Feb 19  2018 breathe_all.py
-rwxr-xr-x 1 pi pi 1734 Feb 19  2018 broadcast_color.py
-rwxr-xr-x 1 pi pi  136 Feb 19  2018 broadcast_off.py
-rwxr-xr-x 1 pi pi  135 Feb 19  2018 broadcast_on.py
-rwxr-xr-x 1 pi pi  907 Feb 19  2018 get_color_all.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 pi pi    0 Feb 19  2018 __init__.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 pi pi 1639 Feb 19  2018 multizone_breathe.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 pi pi 2492 Feb 19  2018 multizone_chase.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 pi pi 2270 Feb 19  2018 multizone_shimmer.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 pi pi 1781 Feb 19  2018 rainbow_all.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 pi pi 1815 Feb 19  2018 rainbow.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 pi pi 1538 Feb 19  2018 sniffer.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 pi pi  986 Feb 19  2018 verbose_lan.py

I recall that there's strobe functionality built into the LiFX mobile app, and it appears that people have produced the effect using lifxlan (maybe 'blink.py', or 'multizone_shimmer.py')?  You might just be able to comment out the "sleep(1)" statements in 'blink.py' to achieve the affect.  You'd have to try that yourself.

[Blackbird]

Thanks

[larryllix]

Most smart bulbs have a set of effects built in. If you can access these, flashing a lamp or two with them takes the load off ISY doing it in a program.

Other than simple one colour flashes I find the rest of the effects mostly useless though.

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