Jeff K Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 Here's the problem I'm trying to solve - I have two keypads in the same room that each has a different light connected to its load. For usability reasons, I'd like to set up the button layouts on the keypads exactly the same way. So for example, button "A" on both switches would control the light connected to the load on switch 1, and button "B" on both switches would control the light connected to the load on switch 2 (and "C" for light 3, etc.). Unfortunately, there is no way to do this out of the box. The first button on each keypad must control the load connected directly to that switch, which forces the button layout to be different between them. Although it seems to be a lesser know feature, I have found from my searches that keypads support detaching their load from the main button, meaning that the main on/off button can be configured to not control the wired load and instead allow the load to be controlled as a separate device from the buttons. Enabling this feature on the keypad whose load should be controlled by button "B" would be perfect for this scenario. All I'd have to do is add the "load" device on that switch to the scene for button "B" and allow it to be controlled virtually. The alternative is to not connect the lights to the keypad loads at all, but instead connect them to micro modules and add those to the appropriate scenes. Due to space restrictions, this is not possible in my situation, and it seems like overkill to add additional hardware when there's a perfectly capable switch already in place. I would like to request that the keypad "detach load" feature be able to be enabled/disabled using an ISY, and that the ISY correctly allows control of the additional "load" device enabled by this feature. Thanks.
simplextech Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 30 minutes ago, Jeff K said: I would like to request that the keypad "detach load" feature be able to be enabled/disabled using an ISY, and that the ISY correctly allows control of the additional "load" device enabled by this feature. Thanks. I second this. I'm in need for this functionality. It exists and I can configure this in HomeSeer... why not ISY?
mwester Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 Can you provide the link to the site describing this "load detach" feature? I've never run across it in the Insteon docs, so I'm skeptical that's it's real.
simplextech Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, mwester said: Can you provide the link to the site describing this "load detach" feature? I've never run across it in the Insteon docs, so I'm skeptical that's it's real. I don't know of a "site" that provides any Insteon technical docs. However I did email a contact at Insteon asking about it. However in the HomeSeer plugin that Mark Sandler developed it is there in the options for the KPL. I would have to pull a KPL from my ISY and reconfigure into HomeSeer.. again... to test/verify it.
Techman Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 Here's the thread that Jeff is referring to: https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/lighting-primary-technology-plug-ins/lighting-primary-technology-discussion/insteon-mnsandler/107068-keypadlinc-and-detach-load This is also the first I've heard of this option, apparently some KPL's do support this feature. Part of the problem with UDI trying to implement this or other options is the fact that Smartlabs is always changing / updating their device firmware so what works today with a device may not work tomorrow.
carealtor Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 Don't quote me, but I believe that feature was removed long ago and "newer" keypads never supported it. The solution to the OP is, unfortunately, a micro module.
simplextech Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, carealtor said: Don't quote me, but I believe that feature was removed long ago and "newer" keypads never supported it. The solution to the OP is, unfortunately, a micro module. If it's removed from the newer KPL... well... that just sucks... I was hopeful as it's a nice feature.
paulbates Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 This feature is a blast from the past. It was part of the orginal X10 based keypads before insteon was supported. See page 7. I've not seen this feature documented in any of the more recent model keypads I agree it would be an awesome feature. The only suggtion I have to to try the keypress based assignment method on a modern keypad and see if it responds. Paul
Jeff K Posted June 30, 2019 Author Posted June 30, 2019 30 minutes ago, simplextech said: If it's removed from the newer KPL... well... that just sucks... I was hopeful as it's a nice feature. Agreed. BTW, here's the thread that I first found on this topic: https://forum.insteon.com/forum/main-category/insteon-products/wall-keypads/dimmer-keypads/86765-programming-a-keypad-with-detached-load
Jeff K Posted June 30, 2019 Author Posted June 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, paulbates said: The only suggtion I have to to try the keypress based assignment method on a modern keypad and see if it responds. I'm not familiar with this feature. Is this a way to reassign the button that controls the local load? That's ultimately what I'm looking for in my scenario.
paulbates Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 Just now, Jeff K said: I'm not familiar with this feature. Is this a way to reassign the button that controls the local load? That's ultimately what I'm looking for in my scenario. The manual link I posted above has directions on page 7 for how to do it on the original keypad. I never tried it and never owned that original model keypad. However, after just reading the insteon.com thread you posted, it says it can be done via insteon command via network only. Paul
Jeff K Posted June 30, 2019 Author Posted June 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, paulbates said: The manual link I posted above has directions on page 7 for how to do it on the original keypad. I never tried it and never owned that original model keypad. Hmm. It definitely looks like that manual came from a time gone by. Anyway, I took that shot in the dark and held two of the buttons down on the keypad to see what would happen and... nada. Oh, well.
paulbates Posted June 30, 2019 Posted June 30, 2019 Yeh it was a long shot. Trying it with Insteon commands as described in the link you provided will be harder, as writing software or some similar method to send commands to the specific switch is needed. 1 minute ago, Jeff K said: Hmm. It definitely looks like that manual came from a time gone by. Anyway, I took that shot in the dark and held two of the buttons down on the keypad to see what would happen and... nada. Oh, well.
lilyoyo1 Posted July 1, 2019 Posted July 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Jeff K said: Agreed. BTW, here's the thread that I first found on this topic: https://forum.insteon.com/forum/main-category/insteon-products/wall-keypads/dimmer-keypads/86765-programming-a-keypad-with-detached-load That post was from 2014 so what happened then may not apply now. I do remember at one time they were talking about being able to detach the load. Haven't heard anything about it actually coming to fruition though.
MWareman Posted July 1, 2019 Posted July 1, 2019 I’ve been using Insteon for a number of years and never new this existed.... It sure would be interesting to see if this still works. Basically, a check box to enable it and a 9th node shows up for the control and status of the load.... UDI would have to implement it though...
simplextech Posted July 1, 2019 Posted July 1, 2019 14 minutes ago, MWareman said: It sure would be interesting to see if this still works. I'll plugin the USB PLM I have and reset a KPL and give it a test spin Might have some info later tonight.
simplextech Posted July 2, 2019 Posted July 2, 2019 I just verified that the "Detach Load" DOES WORK! Testing was done with a brand new KeyPadLinc 6 button Firmware Version: 45 I had this KPL un-opened still that I ordered a couple weeks ago and I decided to use it for testing. I tested the KPL in normal mode with a multimeter and confirmed voltage going through the load wire Off was ~12v and On was ~117v. Using the Insteon plugin I then enabled the detach load option and then tested. The load measured ~12v when toggled on or off it did not change. The plugin did create a new HS3 device with an address of ".9" which corresponds to the documentation that @MWareman posted.
jec6613 Posted July 2, 2019 Posted July 2, 2019 This would be very handy for ISY to implement, since none of my 8 button keypads actually have attached loads at the moment for this very reason. At minimum it would keep stray voltage out of the box!
MWareman Posted July 2, 2019 Posted July 2, 2019 Well, that screenshot is directly from the Insteon documentation from one of the threads linked above. I don’t take credit for it!Nevertheless - I agree. Hopefully this is something that can be implemented on ISY....
simplextech Posted July 2, 2019 Posted July 2, 2019 6 minutes ago, MWareman said: Well, that screenshot is directly from the Insteon documentation from one of the threads linked above. I don’t take credit for it! Nevertheless - I agree. Hopefully this is something that can be implemented on ISY.... Yup... I reached out and got the same doc as well and it's there in the KPL documentation. Clear info on usage too. I'm hoping this will be implemented in the ISY... What you say @Michel Kohanim ?
Jeff K Posted July 2, 2019 Author Posted July 2, 2019 1 hour ago, simplextech said: I just verified that the "Detach Load" DOES WORK! That's great news! Just out of curiosity, if you leave that keypad in "detached load" mode and then connect it to your ISY, does Group 9 for the load appear and if so, can you control it, add it to scenes, etc.? I assume not, but you never know.
simplextech Posted July 2, 2019 Posted July 2, 2019 12 minutes ago, Jeff K said: That's great news! Just out of curiosity, if you leave that keypad in "detached load" mode and then connect it to your ISY, does Group 9 for the load appear and if so, can you control it, add it to scenes, etc.? I assume not, but you never know. I don't know. I can test that out tomorrow though.
copumpkin Posted August 28, 2019 Posted August 28, 2019 Did you end up trying that? I’m also curious!
simplextech Posted August 28, 2019 Posted August 28, 2019 30 minutes ago, copumpkin said: Did you end up trying that? I’m also curious! I couldn't bring the settings back to ISY because I had to add it as a new device. It "may" be possible using the same PLM but I did not try that. However it is verified that through software it is possible to "detach load" on the KPL and it is documented in the Insteon developer documents so this is an "Official" feature/capability.
copumpkin Posted August 28, 2019 Posted August 28, 2019 Oh interesting, can you point me to the documents in question? UDI was reluctant to implement support for the feature because it wasn’t officially documented, but if it is, maybe we can get first-class support in our ISYs for this functionalitySent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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