Using "smart bulbs" with Insteon dimmers

[lilyoyo1]

37 minutes ago, larryllix said:

Maybe they are not http protocol. OTOH I have has http devices that just give up too easily.

I have 25 RGBWW bulbs that have never had to be power cycled yet. Of course I bought the quality units at about $8 each.

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Another reason I stick with hue....

[Bumbershoot]

2 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Another reason I stick with hue....

I started out with them, but in an art studio, we prefered the lumen output and color saturation of LiFX.  Otherwise, I liked them.  I have a relative who's happily using them.

[lilyoyo1]

7 minutes ago, Bumbershoot said:

I started out with them, but in an art studio, we prefered the lumen output and color saturation of LiFX.  Otherwise, I liked them.  I have a relative who's happily using them.

I can understand that. I wouldn't use them there either. They're great for the home though

[larryllix]

I have a junk box full of Hue bulbs now,and the only reason they lasted the few years they did was they cost me over $300, which was way too much to totally waste. Basically the bulbs were garbage from day 1, with no green capability and blaring 100% in the middle of the night with every power blink.

The Iris unit had nice colours but the light output was about 2W equiv. or less.   I was impressed with the Hue protocol. Very easy and clean.

[upstatemike]

Recent Hue firmware has fixed the issue of returning to full brightness after a power glitch but I can't get past the 50 bulb limit on the bridge. My front Hall chandelier uses ten bulbs just for that one fixture so at that rate Hue isn't going to get you very far. You can use multiple bridges but Alexa only supports one and the whole thing quickly turns into a bit of a kludge if you try to scale it out. It is kind of surprising that Hue keeps expanding their line of bulbs and devices but does not address the capacity limits of the bridge.

[larryllix]

23 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

Recent Hue firmware has fixed the issue of returning to full brightness after a power glitch but I can't get past the 50 bulb limit on the bridge. My front Hall chandelier uses ten bulbs just for that one fixture so at that rate Hue isn't going to get you very far. You can use multiple bridges but Alexa only supports one and the whole thing quickly turns into a bit of a kludge if you try to scale it out. It is kind of surprising that Hue keeps expanding their line of bulbs and devices but does not address the capacity limits of the bridge.

I guess they didn't expected anybody to spend over $3000 on light bulbs. They must be running into a memory or number of addressing bit max in the protocol. Geesh...MiLights had a much better light quality, colour depth, and brightness, but I have a box full of them too because they took a new hub every four bulbs. If MiLight ever developed a hub to service a dozen or more bulbs I would go back to them.

My Hue bulbs didn't support the update for the 100% power on problem.

[simplextech]

8 minutes ago, larryllix said:

but I have a box full of them too because they took a new hub every four bulbs

My understanding and reading from other forums and integrations is that the MiLight hub supports 4 zones.  However you can have as many bulbs in each zone as you want.  Are you saying you can only have 4 bulbs period?

[larryllix]

19 minutes ago, simplextech said:

My understanding and reading from other forums and integrations is that the MiLight hub supports 4 zones.  However you can have as many bulbs in each zone as you want.  Are you saying you can only have 4 bulbs period?

No. You are correct. You can have four "groups" with as many bulbs are desired in each group.
From the ebay listings, it appears the newer "lamp style" hubs may be able to handle 8 groups. That would definitely help but they require more space than the flat hubs I have. They still require a microUSB from the looks of them.

The MiLight protocol is very fast using UDP packets. Animations, like flame flickering,  is much easier with them.

[simplextech]

2 minutes ago, larryllix said:

No. You are correct. You can have four "groups" with as many bulbs are desired in each group.
From the ebay listings, it appears the newer "lamp style" hubs may be able to handle 8 groups. That would definitely help but they require more space than the flat hubs I have. They still require a microUSB from the looks of them.

The MiLight protocol is very fast using UDP packets. Animations, like flame flickering,  is much easier with them.

Good to know that it is 4 groups of X number of bulbs and not 4 bulbs max per hub.... that would be horrible!  In browsing I did see the 8 channel remote and wall remote which looks interesting but I didn't see a corresponding "Wifi box" controller for them.  I wonder if a new controller is necessary or if there was a firmware update to handle more channels?

[larryllix]

1 hour ago, simplextech said:

Good to know that it is 4 groups of X number of bulbs and not 4 bulbs max per hub.... that would be horrible!  In browsing I did see the 8 channel remote and wall remote which looks interesting but I didn't see a corresponding "Wifi box" controller for them.  I wonder if a new controller is necessary or if there was a firmware update to handle more channels?

My impression is there are no upgrades. The 8 group unit is the small RGBWW lamp some sell. It doubles as a cute RGBWW lamp, which may work out for a desk lamp or a couple on top of a bar.

[lilyoyo1]

8 hours ago, upstatemike said:

Recent Hue firmware has fixed the issue of returning to full brightness after a power glitch but I can't get past the 50 bulb limit on the bridge. My front Hall chandelier uses ten bulbs just for that one fixture so at that rate Hue isn't going to get you very far. You can use multiple bridges but Alexa only supports one and the whole thing quickly turns into a bit of a kludge if you try to scale it out. It is kind of surprising that Hue keeps expanding their line of bulbs and devices but does not address the capacity limits of the bridge.

I've never understood the desire to replace whole (large) fixtures with smartbulbs when it's cheaper/easier to simply replace a switch

[asbril]

39 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I've never understood the desire to replace whole (large) fixtures with smartbulbs when it's cheaper/easier to simply replace a switch

I very much agree with you and for table lamps you can use a plug-in device. Not more expensive and much more efficient.

[MWareman]

I very much agree with you and for table lamps you can use a plug-in device. Not more expensive and much more efficient.

True. But you cannot change the color.

If you have a need/desire to be able to adjust the color of the light you pretty much have to go the smart bulb route.

[asbril]

17 minutes ago, MWareman said:

 

True. But you cannot change the color.

If you have a need/desire to be able to adjust the color of the light you pretty much have to go the smart bulb route.

 

Good point

[lilyoyo1]

20 minutes ago, MWareman said:

 

True. But you cannot change the color.

If you have a need/desire to be able to adjust the color of the light you pretty much have to go the smart bulb route.

 

That's where I use mine. Extends the signal throughout the house along with the extra capabilities of tuning the light along with colors.

[lilyoyo1]

42 minutes ago, asbril said:

I very much agree with you and for table lamps you can use a plug-in device. Not more expensive and much more efficient.

I don't mind them for lamps. They work great for that. It's the fixtures such as chandeliers or can lights that I don't get. 

[Bumbershoot]

12 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

It's the fixtures such as chandeliers or can lights that I don't get.

Except...  There are obviously people for whom $50 is chump change, and for them, there's this: https://www.lifx.com/collections/lamps-and-pendants/products/candle-color

A dozen in the hanging lamp in the foyer might make for some spectacular effects...

26 addressable zones in a single candelabra bulb?  That seems like a huge leap in functionality. 

[upstatemike]

18 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I don't mind them for lamps. They work great for that. It's the fixtures such as chandeliers or can lights that I don't get. 

It is just a matter of taste. You can't set much of a dramatic scene with a single lamp with a single color bulb. To do it right you need to include all the lights in the room and having the granularity in a chandelier to change the hue of each exposed bulb can greatly enhance the effect. Why have home automation as a hobby if you're not going to have some fun with it?

[lilyoyo1]

1 minute ago, Bumbershoot said:

Except...  There are obviously people for whom $50 is chump change, and for them, there's this: https://www.lifx.com/collections/lamps-and-pendants/products/candle-color

A dozen in the hanging lamp in the foyer might make for some spectacular effects...

26 addressable zones in a single candelabra bulb?  That seems like a huge leap in functionality. 

I'm sure it's cool when  a person first gets it. After a while when it loses its WOW effect it's just a bulb. Even still, a great thing is 1 place. Having it all over lessens the appeal.

To each their own. I just don't get it

[upstatemike]

2 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I'm sure it's cool when  a person first gets it. After a while when it loses its WOW effect it's just a bulb. Even still, a great thing is 1 place. Having it all over lessens the appeal.

To each their own. I just don't get it

I sort of agree. 1 bulb is cool. 6 bulbs is no longer a novelty. An entire room, or floor, or outside landscape is wow!

[lilyoyo1]

Just now, upstatemike said:

It is just a matter of taste. You can't set much of a dramatic scene with a single lamp with a single color bulb. To do it right you need to include all the lights in the room and having the granularity in a chandelier to change the hue of each exposed bulb can greatly enhance the effect. Why have home automation as a hobby if you're not going to have some fun with it?

Home automation is a business for me not a hobby. Too much makes things tacky. Done right is much more tasteful. 

I do agree with you on the multiple bulb approach which is why I generally do it with at least 2 lights minimum. 

At the end of the day, it really comes down to user taste. 

[upstatemike]

1 minute ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Home automation is a business for me not a hobby. Too much makes things tacky. Done right is much more tasteful. 

I do agree with you on the multiple bulb approach which is why I generally do it with at least 2 lights minimum. 

At the end of the day, it really comes down to user taste. 

Regarding Hue another factor for me is retrofit applications. It is typical in 100+ year old houses to have rooms with no light switches; only sconces and ceiling fixtures with pull chains. Easiest way to add a light switch is stick a Hue switch on the wall and put the cheaper white Hue bulbs in the ceiling, walls, and lamps (figure 5 bulbs per room typically, maybe 10 in a master bedroom or other large room). Even without introducing color effects you burn through the available bridge capacity pretty fast with Hue.

[larryllix]

20 minutes ago, Bumbershoot said:

Except...  There are obviously people for whom $50 is chump change, and for them, there's this: https://www.lifx.com/collections/lamps-and-pendants/products/candle-color

A dozen in the hanging lamp in the foyer might make for some spectacular effects...

26 addressable zones in a single candelabra bulb?  That seems like a huge leap in functionality. 

There are two different effects here. 

Using multiple colours in a chandelier is about the looks of the bulbs. Like a Christmas tree it doesn't colour the room lighting.
Using colours individually, where they shine on a wall or other opaque object is a different effect. You see the coloured light effect in the room.

If your bulbs are not close to a wall, you will not notice the coloured lighting effect (just see coloured bulbs) unless you have all your lights the same colour. 
Coloured bulbs in a ceiling pot fixture are mostly a waste of money. Their light isn't bright enough to light up the floor and the bulb cannot be seen either. Of course I have ten foot high ceilings.

[Bumbershoot]

1 minute ago, larryllix said:

There are two different effects here. 

Using multiple colours in a chandelier is about the looks of the bulbs. Like a Christmas tree it doesn't colour the room lighting.
Using colours individually, where they shine on a wall or other opaque object is a different effect. You see the coloured light effect in the room.

If your bulbs are not close to a wall, you will not notice the coloured lighting effect (just see coloured bulbs) unless you have all your lights the same colour. 
Coloured bulbs in a ceiling pot fixture are mostly a waste of money. Their light isn't bright enough to light up the floor and the bulb cannot be seen either. Of course I have ten foot high ceilings.

You sound like a man who has been around the block on this. ? Thanks for the perspective.

While there's no way I'd spend the kind of money required to populate my entry light with these things, I'm impressed with their functionality.  Maybe a nightmare to program, however...

[Bumbershoot]

On 11/3/2019 at 5:06 PM, upstatemike said:

I have 21 bulbs in my outside setup

I noticed a few more homes with similar setups in my area this Halloween, but most homeowners haven't made the investment, yet.  Are you using any of the BR30 + (infrared) bulbs, and if so, how much do they help with your cameras?