Eric_Inovelli Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 1 minute ago, asbril said: The difference was to first include the switch with a Neutral wire (at another location). Weird. So when you had it without a neutral wire, what were you controlling on the load?
asbril Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Eric_Inovelli said: Weird. So when you had it without a neutral wire, what were you controlling on the load? A ceiling light with 6 led bulbs
Eric_Inovelli Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 7 minutes ago, asbril said: A ceiling light with 6 led bulbs Did the switch manually work?
asbril Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, Eric_Inovelli said: Did the switch manually work? Yes
Eric_Inovelli Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, asbril said: Yes And you're able to replicate this with more than one switch? So strange bc the inclusion process shouldn't be affected by the neutral, non-neutral setup unless there isn't enough power to power the Z-Wave chip.
asbril Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Eric_Inovelli said: And you're able to replicate this with more than one switch? So strange bc the inclusion process shouldn't be affected by the neutral, non-neutral setup unless there isn't enough power to power the Z-Wave chip. I have 2 of these switches and I had the same experience with both. When I have some time, I will try again with the second switch. I remember when trying the inclusion without Neutral, I would see a brief recognition in the ISY inclusion window, and then happening nothing. Edited June 14, 2020 by asbril 1
Mecheng70 Posted June 20, 2020 Posted June 20, 2020 On 5/21/2020 at 12:32 PM, simplextech said: Yes. But there are much cheaper options. I would go ahead and buy the newest SiLabs USB 700 series stick..... https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Silicon-Labs/SLUSB001A?qs=sGAEpiMZZMve4%2FbfQkoj%2BNEfRvhA8yqctH3nhvzmHIE%3D At $19.00 for the latest/greatest you can't beat that with a stick! Hi Simpllextech, do you know if this will work with ubuntu? or mac? I was thinking about using it just to upgrade firmware from either.
simplextech Posted June 20, 2020 Posted June 20, 2020 22 minutes ago, Mecheng70 said: Hi Simpllextech, do you know if this will work with ubuntu? or mac? I was thinking about using it just to upgrade firmware from either. The drivers are there for Linux. I don't know about Mac. However you will still need a software controller to interface with it. If you're intending to do firmware updates then from the Mac you will need to run Parallels or Fusion to run a Windows VM and you can then use the free Silicon Labs PC Controller to flash the firmware. Same would apply from Linux you would need a Windows VM to run the SiLabs PC Controller software to flash firmware. 1
Mecheng70 Posted June 20, 2020 Posted June 20, 2020 Thanks. I will probably use the wife's computer just for updates.  Thank you for the quick response.  1
drich Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 To followup to my earlier post in this thread, I was able to successfully include both of my Inovelli switches after doing two things: Upgrade to the Series 500 dongle Use a test rig with a neutral wire on the switch. I'm not sure if it really required both, but that worked for me. I tried to pair it without a neutral, but my test box doesn't put enough load on the switch for it to power up (it's just a small neon lamp). When I get time I'm going to try and experiment a bit more with a larger load and no neutral on my spare switch..
asbril Posted July 11, 2020 Posted July 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, drich said: Use a test rig with a neutral wire on the switch. That is my experience. I included the switch on a test rig with neutral and then moved to the desired location. The switch works perfectly but frequently I get an error message that ISY can not communicate with the switch. However, when I need it, in a program or "manually" in the administrative console, it always works.
seattlestexan Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) Hello, Has there been any progress made on this issue? I was given an Inovelli Red switch as a gift, and my ISY994i ZW+ IR PRO first had issues even seeing the switch, but once I discovered the range was the issue, now I get a persistent failure to securely add the device when I attempt to include it. Oddly, it has no issues excluding the switch after I've received the error. Moving the switch to a closer and neutral friendly box has not helped the issue. Is this something that can be corrected in software/firmware? Is this something that a Polisy Pro could work around? Not sure if this makes a difference, but under Linux (using IcedTEA) and Windows 7, I've been unable to get the latest admin console to work on 3 different computers, plus one borrowed Windows 10 laptop, so I've been using the previous version. The finder box loads, I can select Admin Console, there's a pause, but the console never loads. Firmware- Insteon_UD994_OADR v.5.0.16 (2020-01-25-12:36:41) UI- Insteon_UD994 v.4.6.2 (2017-06-21-13:52:47) Product- ISY994i/IR-PRO (1110) - OpenADR (21010) - Z-Wave (21100) Edited January 16, 2021 by seattlestexan Detail for Console Issue
lilyoyo1 Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 20 minutes ago, seattlestexan said: Hello, Has there been any progress made on this issue? I was given an Inovelli Red switch as a gift, and my ISY994i ZW+ IR PRO first had issues even seeing the switch, but once I discovered the range was the issue, now I get a persistent failure to securely add the device when I attempt to include it. Oddly, it has no issues excluding the switch after I've received the error. Moving the switch to a closer and neutral friendly box has not helped the issue. Is this something that can be corrected in software/firmware? Is this something that a Polisy Pro could work around? Not sure if this makes a difference, but under Linux (using IcedTEA) and Windows 7, I've been unable to get the latest admin console to work on 3 different computers, plus one borrowed Windows 10 laptop, so I've been using the previous version. The finder box loads, I can select Admin Console, there's a pause, but the console never loads. Firmware- Insteon_UD994_OADR v.5.0.16 (2020-01-25-12:36:41) UI- Insteon_UD994 v.4.6.2 (2017-06-21-13:52:47) Product- ISY994i/IR-PRO (1110) - OpenADR (21010) - Z-Wave (21100) As always, your firmware and ui has to match. Clear your Java cache and use the launcher
dbuss Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 23 minutes ago, seattlestexan said: Hello, Has there been any progress made on this issue? I was given an Inovelli Red switch as a gift, and my ISY994i ZW+ IR PRO first had issues even seeing the switch, but once I discovered the range was the issue, now I get a persistent failure to securely add the device when I attempt to include it. Oddly, it has no issues excluding the switch after I've received the error. Moving the switch to a closer and neutral friendly box has not helped the issue. Is this something that can be corrected in software/firmware? Is this something that a Polisy Pro could work around? Not sure if this makes a difference, but under Linux (using IcedTEA) and Windows 7, I've been unable to get the latest admin console to work on 3 different computers, plus one borrowed Windows 10 laptop, so I've been using the previous version. The finder box loads, I can select Admin Console, there's a pause, but the console never loads. Firmware- Insteon_UD994_OADR v.5.0.16 (2020-01-25-12:36:41) UI- Insteon_UD994 v.4.6.2 (2017-06-21-13:52:47) Product- ISY994i/IR-PRO (1110) - OpenADR (21010) - Z-Wave (21100) Your Firmware and UIÂ have to match you are attempting to us 5.0.16 firmware with 4.6.2 UI. This information can be found on the first page of the firmware. Here's the link: Follow the instructions to a "T"!!! Â Â Edited January 16, 2021 by dbuss
seattlestexan Posted January 16, 2021 Posted January 16, 2021 @lilyoyo1 @dbuss Do you have a solution that doesn't involve my version difference? I've already tried the troubleshooting listed here, plus other tips I've found, to no avail. Until there is a firmware and UI update, I'm not dealing with the UI issue further. Everything in the v.4 admin console works perfectly fine, and the only issue I'm having currently is the one that started this forum thread - my Inovelli switch fails to securely include to my ISY's ZWave network.
dbuss Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 17 minutes ago, seattlestexan said: Everything in the v.4 admin console works perfectly fine Now I'm confused!Â
asbril Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, dbuss said: Now I'm confused! You really should consider moving to 5.X . It is the most compatible version with all new Zwave devices, regardless of whether this resolves your issue or not. Jump and also get to Polyglot (Polisy) and you will enter a whole new world of HA. 1
dbuss Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, asbril said: You really should consider moving to 5.X . It is the most compatible version with all new Zwave devices, regardless of whether this resolves your issue or not. Jump and also get to Polyglot (Polisy) and you will enter a whole new world of HA. @asbrilI'm not sure to whom you are directing this. I have everything you mentioned. My comment was directed to seattlestexan. My confusion is if everything is working fine, why is he here with a problem?
simplextech Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 1 hour ago, seattlestexan said: Inovelli Red Problem 1: There's known issues with Inovelli Red/Black that requires FW updates on their devices.  Problem 2: Currently you can't perform device FW updates from the ISY. You'll have to use a different controller and software for this. A USB Z-Wave stick UZB7 or Aeotec are good options and the PC Controller software from SiliconLabs is free. Problem 3: When running Linux it's best to use official JRE from Oracle and not mess around with IcedTea as it's no longer supported well anyways. I've run Linux with Oracle JRE without any problems. Question 1: Why are you mucking around trying to include a switch securely? It doesn't provide any "security" as the traffic is useless even if someone was sitting in the same room with a zniffer watching the traffic.  Info: ISY does not support 5.0.16 does not support S2 security either so turn off secure inclusion in the ISY and force the device to use no security to include it. 2
asbril Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 12 minutes ago, dbuss said: @asbrilI'm not sure to whom you are directing this. I have everything you mentioned. My comment was directed to seattlestexan. My confusion is if everything is working fine, why is he here with a problem? Sorry, (as you assumed) it was directed at @seattlestexan
Eric_Inovelli Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 15 minutes ago, simplextech said: Problem 1: There's known issues with Inovelli Red/Black that requires FW updates on their devices. Just curious what firmware update you're referencing? I can check with Eric M (CTO) but I don't remember and firmware directed at fixing any ISY compatibility. https://support.inovelli.com/portal/en/kb/articles/firmware-change-log-lzw31-sn-dimmer-switch-red-series @seattlestexan - on the front of your switch (the black metal part), can you see a date code? It should be a four number code. I'll be able to tell what firmware version you have just in case I was wrong about the firmware statement above (I admit I haven't been following the enhancements as closely as I should and @simplextech is always spot on). 1
simplextech Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Eric_Inovelli said: Just curious what firmware update you're referencing? I can check with Eric M (CTO) but I don't remember and firmware directed at fixing any ISY compatibility. I don't know the specific FW as I have no Inovelli devices. I also didn't know you made controller (ISY, Hubitat) specific firmware for a Z-Wave device. Seems very odd and non-standard. Z-Wave devices should work with all controllers. There's been lots of discussions on the Hubitat forum all around Inovelli devices and the FW updates that are needed for switches and bulbs and other devices. I made the assumption that as it's a Z-Wave device and there's only one firmware regardless of the controller that the same FW issues would likely be a problem with the ISY as well as generally ALL controllers. If however you do make FW changes that are specific to specific controllers PLEASE post that and DOCUMENT it. The only vendor I'm currently aware of that does this sort of "enhancement" to their FW has been Fibaro with their own controllers so this type of information is very handy.  Â
Eric_Inovelli Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, simplextech said: I also didn't know you made controller (ISY, Hubitat) specific firmware for a Z-Wave device. Seems very odd and non-standard. Z-Wave devices should work with all controllers. Yeah you'd think so, but there are various quirks that various controllers have. There was some discussion in this forum a while back around Z-Wave Certification and me assuming that meant every Z-Wave product should work with every Z-Wave controller (assuming there's no vendor blocking) and how I was admittedly wrong that certain controllers are not officially certified by Z-Wave (Hubitat C-5, C-7 is) and therefore there can be issues. I don't feel like opening the can of worms again here around ISY and their certification and compatibility, but what I will say is we've had to modify our firmware to work with various hubs. Vera and HomeSeer are great examples. Firmware 1.41 Vera: Fixed association purging issue. Vera was not properly processing group #4 group name. Shortened the name to resolve this issue. Homeseer: Fixed not processing BasicReports when sent after turning switch on/off from the wall. Changed to SwitchMultiLevelReport. While our devices are Z-Wave Certified, there still seems to be interoperability issues. We do not make controller specific changes, and I wish Eric M could speak more to this as I'm speaking admittedly without a coding lens, but I am aware of the various issues with various hubs and was made aware last year by the Z-Wave Alliance itself that there are certain hubs that are operating in, "beta" mode so everything may not work with each other as intended. Again, I don't want to open the can of worms as that was not a fun time in my life lol. We do have a changelog listed at the link I posted above for reference. Edit: spelling error above and addition below. @seattlestexan - Eric M has ISY and so I will have him look over this thread and either comment himself or I'll comment for him. @simplextech - forgot to mention. The Hubitat issue is that their C5 was not Z-Wave Certified ergo there were issues with compatibility. Their C7 has some issues with our bulbs. Our bulbs do seem to have a problem with Hubitat specifically (C7) in that the S0 floods the network. However, again, they were Z-Wave Certified so idk if it was a ball-drop on Z-Wave or what. We modified the firmware to make it report less. I think ultimately the issue was that while the bulbs are certified, they could've been modified better to report less to the hub and Z-Wave is/was not in the business of helping with code but rather saying, "yes this meets our standards or no it does not". Edited January 17, 2021 by Eric_Inovelli Spelling and additional info
simplextech Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, Eric_Inovelli said: Again, I don't want to open the can of worms as that was not a fun time in my life lol. Yeah there was lots of drama in many forums about Hubitat certification and ISY certification. Now with the C7 and ISY 5.3 everyone is certified and happy and still doing things wrong  1
seattlestexan Posted January 17, 2021 Posted January 17, 2021 3 hours ago, dbuss said: Now I'm confused! It's a ZWave/Inovelli to ISY issue, not an Admin Console issue. I've never been able to get V5 UI to work. I spent a couple hours a day for a couple months trying to TS UI v5, then said screw it, resumed working with v4, and it's been great, until I got this Inovelli, and have been futzing with it for a few months.
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