Can't Get to Admin Console!!

[JacktheRipper]

Aye, the plot thickens...

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You can always try using a different computer.

and, indeed, everything worked perfectly on my workshop laptop, a Levano Legion called LEGS! Thanks apostolakisl!

So, I discovered (again) why my office PC, an Alienware laptop called AL with a 4K ASUS monitor hanging off of it, was not working: I run AL in the Windows "Extend these Displays" mode, with the smaller laptop screen to the left with the small screen lowered to the bottom of the larger 4K screen in Display Options. This makes mouse jumps from the 4K screen to the laptop screen seem more natural to me: they happen at the lower left edge of the 4K screen. I sometime run with the laptop lid closed. What was happening was the ISY Launcher always put the selection box on the smaller screen but too high to be visible on the laptop screen, even if it were opened. I fiddled with the display settings to ultimately straighten things out, but this never seems to be a durable solution. Seems like every time I get an automatic W10 update, I'm back to square one.

I do have to say it: I run other Java apps from other sources on AL, and I never encounter these kind of problems, so clearly the problem is with the UDI ISY finder implementation (not Java, not the Java cache, not Windows 10, not 4K displays, not cascaded routers, etc.). Work needs to be done here.

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OMG! Access your router and change your IP range back to your original router.

larry, you would have to live with my 25 year old AT&T DSL modem/router to see why I run in the mode I'm in: router is 2.4 GHz only with terrible range and only a 100MB/sec switch. It has a truly awful, awful software interface. Does not have a bridge mode. Primitive DHCP implementation.  I'm using a new NetGear WiFi 6 mesh router with two "satellites" (Costco, $249), and my range issues are finally solved (large house on a large property). I've tried using the Netgear as a WAP behind the AT&T router, and as a router with its own subnet behind the AT&T router. The latter is far more usable and understandable for me. I'm not a network expert, and I never want to become one (what a personal hell that would be!). I think I get better performance with the setup I now have (LAN communication at 1GB/sec, 5GHz connections to media devices, easier Homegroup setup for file sharing, etc.). Yeah, it was a pain to take some 35 devices over to the subnet, but a lot of that happened automatically, just by turning things off, then on. I used the same SSID and password on the mesh router as I had before. Printers, my SONOS system and my Orbit Beehyve sprinkler timers were the only real problems I had (my ISY finder problem was unrelated to the router setup, ultimately).

So, all is well now, and thanks to both of you for helping me, with quick and truly useful discussion...Jack

[larryllix]

13 minutes ago, JacktheRipper said:

Aye, the plot thickens...

and, indeed, everything worked perfectly on my workshop laptop, a Levano Legion called LEGS! Thanks apostolakisl!

So, I discovered (again) why my office PC, an Alienware laptop called AL with a 4K ASUS monitor hanging off of it, was not working: I run AL in the Windows "Extend these Displays" mode, with the smaller laptop screen to the left with the small screen lowered to the bottom of the larger 4K screen in Display Options. This makes mouse jumps from the 4K screen to the laptop screen seem more natural to me: they happen at the lower left edge of the 4K screen. I sometime run with the laptop lid closed. What was happening was the ISY Launcher always put the selection box on the smaller screen but too high to be visible on the laptop screen, even if it were opened. I fiddled with the display settings to ultimately straighten things out, but this never seems to be a durable solution. Seems like every time I get an automatic W10 update, I'm back to square one.

I do have to say it: I run other Java apps from other sources on AL, and I never encounter these kind of problems, so clearly the problem is with the UDI ISY finder implementation (not Java, not the Java cache, not Windows 10, not 4K displays, not cascaded routers, etc.). Work needs to be done here.

larry, you would have to live with my 25 year old AT&T DSL modem/router to see why I run in the mode I'm in: router is 2.4 GHz only with terrible range and only a 100MB/sec switch. It has a truly awful, awful software interface. Does not have a bridge mode. Primitive DHCP implementation.  I'm using a new NetGear WiFi 6 mesh router with two "satellites" (Costco, $249), and my range issues are finally solved (large house on a large property). I've tried using the Netgear as a WAP behind the AT&T router, and as a router with its own subnet behind the AT&T router. The latter is far more usable and understandable for me. I'm not a network expert, and I never want to become one (what a personal hell that would be!). I think I get better performance with the setup I now have (LAN communication at 1GB/sec, 5GHz connections to media devices, easier Homegroup setup for file sharing, etc.). Yeah, it was a pain to take some 35 devices over to the subnet, but a lot of that happened automatically, just by turning things off, then on. I used the same SSID and password on the mesh router as I had before. Printers, my SONOS system and my Orbit Beehyve sprinkler timers were the only real problems I had (my ISY finder problem was unrelated to the router setup, ultimately).

So, all is well now, and thanks to both of you for helping me, with quick and truly useful discussion...Jack

I wasn't suggesting you go back to your old router hardware. I was suggesting you set your new router back to the 192.168.0.1 to 192.168.0.254 range so your devices don't have to change IP addresses and your access software doesn't have to be reconfigured to the new 10.0.0.x addresses. It's just more work, that's all.

[JLOB]

I've five computers in the house....all running Windows 10 Pro.  The ISY problem exists on ALL of them.

JLOB

 

[apostolakisl]

1 hour ago, JLOB said:

I've five computers in the house....all running Windows 10 Pro.  The ISY problem exists on ALL of them.

JLOB

 

I suspect you are using a fairly old ISY version based.  My understanding is that ISY launcher works on all the old firmwares, but might I suggest you try the old way.  Clear your Java again.  Then go to the following URL

http://isy.universal-devices.com/994i/4.6.2/admin.jnlp

But instead of 4.6.2, put in the version you are currently running.

 

1) When you get the error "invalid url" that is an error local to the computer from failing to enter the url in the http://xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx format.  This has nothing to do with the network or the presence of absence of a functioning isy on your network.

2) If none of your computers ISY finder can find ISY, then there is some sort of discovery problem on your network, or some sort of error has occurred in ISY that I have never seen discussed on the forum before.  Clearly you are on the same subnet since you can open an ISY window on your web browser.

3) Have you tried rebooting ISY?  

4) Is your ISY on a static IP address configured within ISY, a DHCP address assigned at random, or a reserved DHCP address?

[JLOB]

2 hours ago, apostolakisl said:

I suspect you are using a fairly old ISY version based.  My understanding is that ISY launcher works on all the old firmwares, but might I suggest you try the old way.  Clear your Java again.  Then go to the following URL

http://isy.universal-devices.com/994i/4.6.2/admin.jnlp

But instead of 4.6.2, put in the version you are currently running.

My ISY, both Firmware and UI, is far from old.  I tried what you suggested however.  The results are below.

Thanks.

JLOB

[Geddy]

7 hours ago, JacktheRipper said:

larry, you would have to live with my 25 year old AT&T DSL modem/router

@JacktheRipper

Holy crap! Those old DSL modem/router combos really held up for you! Mine wouldn't last longer than 3 years before I finally fired AT&T for crappy service. Great on you for having it last that long! Have you considered just a DSL modem then running the router behind the modem rather than relying on the old AT&T router technology?  Is AT&T the only internet you've got available to you? Even Comcast is better internet (imo), and that's saying something. I haven't been willing to try AT&T again since they burned me on DSL and business DSL service nearly 15 years ago. Last year they dug up our neighborhood to offer fiber and people complain about it's speed and reliability left and right...even more during the recent month of working from home. I've had virtually no issue with Comcast (knock on wood). Glad it's working for you! Both the internet and the ISY!

 

[apostolakisl]

5 hours ago, JLOB said:

My ISY, both Firmware and UI, is far from old.  I tried what you suggested however.  The results are below.

Thanks.

JLOB

So what happened?  I just see that in your post that it prompted you to save the file.  Did you save it and then run it?

[JacktheRipper]

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Have you considered just a DSL modem then running the router behind the modem rather than relying on the old AT&T router technology? 

Geddy... AT&Ts device also strips out the phone service, and others have said that AT&T will not change out the box if it's still working, and that you must use their box. There is no cable nor fiber on our side of the street, so AT&T is the only landline provider for my particular house. Underground utilities, of course.

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I was suggesting you set your new router back to the 192.168.0.1 to 192.168.0.254 range so your devices don't have to change IP addresses

larry... I started down that road, but I thought that would require me to limit the IP range from the AT&T router to something like 192.168.1.1 to, say, 192.168.1.5, and then make the mesh router do 192.168.1.6 to 192.168.1.253 (note that the AT&T router itself is 192.168.1.254). And then I would have to reliably flush out all the old tables from the AT&T router, I think. Like I said, I'm not very good at any of this, so I chickened out and just used the default range the mesh router gave me. At least I knew which router was giving out the IP addresses.

And in the middle of all this I was also upgrading my POE IP security cameras to 4k, with a new 4K NVR from lorex. And the new mesh router has no USB port for a NAS functionality, so I was replacing an ancient Buffalo NAS as well. Network gremlins coming at me from all directions...

[larryllix]

31 minutes ago, JacktheRipper said:

Geddy... AT&Ts device also strips out the phone service, and others have said that AT&T will not change out the box if it's still working, and that you must use their box. There is no cable nor fiber on our side of the street, so AT&T is the only landline provider for my particular house. Underground utilities, of course.

larry... I started down that road, but I thought that would require me to limit the IP range from the AT&T router to something like 192.168.1.1 to, say, 192.168.1.5, and then make the mesh router do 192.168.1.6 to 192.168.1.253 (note that the AT&T router itself is 192.168.1.254). And then I would have to reliably flush out all the old tables from the AT&T router, I think. Like I said, I'm not very good at any of this, so I chickened out and just used the default range the mesh router gave me. At least I knew which router was giving out the IP addresses.

And in the middle of all this I was also upgrading my POE IP security cameras to 4k, with a new 4K NVR from lorex. And the new mesh router has no USB port for a NAS functionality, so I was replacing an ancient Buffalo NAS as well. Network gremlins coming at me from all directions...

Yeah. The original router should not affect the new router. You have to call your ISP and tell them you don't want their router enabled and they can turn it off and you just use the modem portion.

I assume you are getting the fastest service you can get over a copper pair, but I was going to suggest that so they would have to upgrade your modem to accommodate the increase in speed.

I am on the slowest with my ISP, but with them using the TV cable company's coax, that is 30Mb/sec and unlimited usage. Now when we give up the slower and cheaper service speeds, we cannot go back. They don't want to count bits anymore. 

[apostolakisl]

4 hours ago, JacktheRipper said:

Geddy... AT&Ts device also strips out the phone service, and others have said that AT&T will not change out the box if it's still working, and that you must use their box. There is no cable nor fiber on our side of the street, so AT&T is the only landline provider for my particular house. Underground utilities, of course.

larry... I started down that road, but I thought that would require me to limit the IP range from the AT&T router to something like 192.168.1.1 to, say, 192.168.1.5, and then make the mesh router do 192.168.1.6 to 192.168.1.253 (note that the AT&T router itself is 192.168.1.254). And then I would have to reliably flush out all the old tables from the AT&T router, I think. Like I said, I'm not very good at any of this, so I chickened out and just used the default range the mesh router gave me. At least I knew which router was giving out the IP addresses.

And in the middle of all this I was also upgrading my POE IP security cameras to 4k, with a new 4K NVR from lorex. And the new mesh router has no USB port for a NAS functionality, so I was replacing an ancient Buffalo NAS as well. Network gremlins coming at me from all directions...

With ATT gateways my experience is that you use the DMZ plus mode.  It has been a long time since I used ATT, but that was the closest thing they had to bridge mode.  It gives the device you designate as the dmz plus device the external IP.  It is best if you change the ATT gateway to a different subnet.  For example, change it to 192.168.2.x   I found that with the gateway and the downstream router both on the same subnet there was some crossing over even though my router had a public IP, it is still hiding behind the ATT router and some weird double nat activity happens.  The ATT gateway comes default on the 192.168.1 subnet, but by no means do you need to keep it there.

[JacktheRipper]

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With ATT gateways my experience is that you use the DMZ plus mode. 

apos... You inspired me to make yet another attempt to do exactly that, and this time I was successful! I must have tried to do something like this hundreds of times, failing every single time. I partly followed a path in an 8 year old post from a Mac user named Scott Rose who found a way to get his Apple Time Capsule working behind his 2-wire 3800HGV from AT&T. But first I had to force the AT&T WAN configuration on to my new WiFi 6 mesh router, a NetGear MR60. Only then did Scott's procedure work on the 3800 (Settings>>System Info>>Event Notifications>>"Router-Behind-Router-Detection" checked). This two step process released the DMZPlus mode from the 3800 and allowed the MR60 to take on that role. So far everything seems to be working, with about the same download and upload speeds (15 and 2.1 Mbps). I left the 3800 gateway at 192.168.1.x because I had already changed all my devices over to 10.0.0.x running on the NetGear. So, happy camper now--thanks a bunch...Jack

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I've five computers in the house....all running Windows 10 Pro.  The ISY problem exists on ALL of them.

JLOB sorry I highjacked your post a bit. Have you resolved your problem yet? As I said above, when I clicked on the ISY Launcher Icon, nothing showed up on either of my two screens (laptop and attached 4K monitor). Turns out that program always seems to put the finder box on screen 1, even if you designate screen 2 as the default. Even worse, it can and does put it off screen so you can't see it, depending on how you configured the locations of the screens in the W10 Display Options. Another issue I've had with my 4K screen is font size, and this was fixed by the following steps.

To address font size issue...
(1) Right click on ISY Launcher shortcut
(2) Select Open file location
(3) Right click on javaws.exe
(4) Properties > Compatibility > Change high DPI settings
(5) Check "Override high DPI scaling behavior. Scaling performed by:"
(6) Select "System (Enhanced)"

Hope this helps in some way...

[JLOB]

6 hours ago, JacktheRipper said:

apos... You inspired me to make yet another attempt to do exactly that, and this time I was successful! I must have tried to do something like this hundreds of times, failing every single time. I partly followed a path in an 8 year old post from a Mac user named Scott Rose who found a way to get his Apple Time Capsule working behind his 2-wire 3800HGV from AT&T. But first I had to force the AT&T WAN configuration on to my new WiFi 6 mesh router, a NetGear MR60. Only then did Scott's procedure work on the 3800 (Settings>>System Info>>Event Notifications>>"Router-Behind-Router-Detection" checked). This two step process released the DMZPlus mode from the 3800 and allowed the MR60 to take on that role. So far everything seems to be working, with about the same download and upload speeds (15 and 2.1 Mbps). I left the 3800 gateway at 192.168.1.x because I had already changed all my devices over to 10.0.0.x running on the NetGear. So, happy camper now--thanks a bunch...Jack

JLOB sorry I highjacked your post a bit. Have you resolved your problem yet? As I said above, when I clicked on the ISY Launcher Icon, nothing showed up on either of my two screens (laptop and attached 4K monitor). Turns out that program always seems to put the finder box on screen 1, even if you designate screen 2 as the default. Even worse, it can and does put it off screen so you can't see it, depending on how you configured the locations of the screens in the W10 Display Options. Another issue I've had with my 4K screen is font size, and this was fixed by the following steps.

To address font size issue...
(1) Right click on ISY Launcher shortcut
(2) Select Open file location
(3) Right click on javaws.exe
(4) Properties > Compatibility > Change high DPI settings
(5) Check "Override high DPI scaling behavior. Scaling performed by:"
(6) Select "System (Enhanced)"

Hope this helps in some way...

No problem with hi-jacking.  The more the merrier, especially if you get the issue resolved!  As far as lost link icons on the desktop, I learned a long time ago that searching for the is pointless.  If you go to C:\USERS\yourusername and click on "Desktop" you'll find all the icons, visible and missing, listed.  It's a simple matter to cut (or copy) the missing links to somewhere else, and then recopy them to the desktop where you can see them.  As an aside, you should checkout freeware called Save-Restore Desktop.  It allows quick recovery of icons that get moved by accident.  'Course you need to have "Saved" the layout first!  Once installed it puts the save and restore options in the screen right-click drop-down box.  If you can't find it anywhere, let me know.

Regarding the display DPI fix, again I've used that for quite a while.  Comes in handy when legacy stuff gets run on a higher res than may have been available to the original author.

Later.

JLOB

 

 

[apostolakisl]

On 4/28/2020 at 12:44 PM, JLOB said:

I've been fine for a few years on getting to the console.  Today, I updated Java and took the option to remove obsolete Java pieces.  Since then I can't get anywhere.  The finder apparently isn't findable.  Not sure what else to do, but i NEED to get into the system somehow.  Anyone have any thoughts?    Thanks.

JLOB

Another person was having similar problems and Michel helped.   As per the post, they uninstalled java and then deleted the residual folder left behind under "appdata"?

 

[ixlr8]

I am having similar issues, I hope it is okay to jump on this thread. I am trying to access my Administrative Console on my 994i and I get an unsupported plugin error in the Java window. Which makes sense because I can't get Java to load in my Safari browser (13.0.5). I am running High Sierra (10.13.6) and my ISY994i firmware is 4.2.10. I know the ISY software is old, I didn't have any reason to upgrade it and everything has been running well. I try not to mess with success. Now I have had a keypad go bad and I need to replace it. My old Win7 machine has died and MacBook Pro is all I have now. I understand that Safari no longer plays well with Java so I downloaded the latest version of Java for Mac and I was hoping I could get it to work with Firefox. But I haven't figured out how to get Java to 'install' in Firefox. It is beginning to look like Java did not install properly, even though it said it successfully competed the installation. Any suggestions/guidance would be appreciated.

With some help of others, I have managed to get Start.jnlp downloaded, I got past the unsupported app issue and I now have the "ISY launcher" on my desktop. When I launch the ISY launcher, a window comes up, none of the fields are filled out and across the top it says. "ISY finder - Not Found" What am I missing and how do I fix it? Do I just need to add my ISY info manually? I have been searching the WIKI but so far haven't found any answers.

After reading some other posts, I opened the ISY Launcher, I ADD'ed the URL for my ISY, it took several attempts to get the URL correct syntax but... I am in my console!!  Thank you all for your help and misc posts so that I am now functional again and I can add my new keypad.  

[Geddy]

@ixlr8 - Make sure you are on the same network that the ISY is on. The finder should find it, but I'm not familiar enough with MAC that there might be something blocking you in the system.

If you know the IP of the ISY click on "Add" on the bottom of the ISY finder and add the IP (http://###.###.###.###/desc". If you don't know the IP of the ISY perhaps find it from your router DHCP/Attached Devices information. 

Other option would be if you have ISY Portal then log in and get the ISY URL for "Admin Console URL" under "ISY information" and add that (you then use the login info for ISY Portal rather than direct ISY Admin login).

Once you're logged into to admin console goto configuration to check the local IP address (if you set it to static). You could then add that local IP and log in with the admin account directly with the ISY and not have to use the portal process.

Hope that helps. 

[ixlr8]

15 minutes ago, Geddy said:

@ixlr8 - Make sure you are on the same network that the ISY is on. The finder should find it, but I'm not familiar enough with MAC that there might be something blocking you in the system.

If you know the IP of the ISY click on "Add" on the bottom of the ISY finder and add the IP (http://###.###.###.###/desc". If you don't know the IP of the ISY perhaps find it from your router DHCP/Attached Devices information. 

Other option would be if you have ISY Portal then log in and get the ISY URL for "Admin Console URL" under "ISY information" and add that (you then use the login info for ISY Portal rather than direct ISY Admin login).

Once you're logged into to admin console goto configuration to check the local IP address (if you set it to static). You could then add that local IP and log in with the admin account directly with the ISY and not have to use the portal process.

Hope that helps. 

As I said in my post, I was finally able to get into my AC via ADD'ing my URL to the ISY Launcher. Luckily I did have the URL documented. I tried several different syntax for the URL including the trailing "/" and "/desc" but they didn't work. What did work was- http://###.###.###.### with no trailing "/" or anything.