Amazon Smart Plug control from ISY994i?

[mvgossman]

I bought an Amazon Smart Plug for $24.99 because I know that I will not need to control it with the ISY994i, and it costs less than the Insteon Lamplinc. It's a neat little device, and simple to set up.

So is there in fact a way to control is from the ISY994i in case I need to have another controllable outlet and want to use the Amazon Smart Plug?

I searched for inquiries on this matter in the forum, I'm kind of surprised that hasn't come up!

Mitch

[lilyoyo1]

10 hours ago, mvgossman said:

I bought an Amazon Smart Plug for $24.99 because I know that I will not need to control it with the ISY994i, and it costs less than the Insteon Lamplinc. It's a neat little device, and simple to set up.

So is there in fact a way to control is from the ISY994i in case I need to have another controllable outlet and want to use the Amazon Smart Plug?

I searched for inquiries on this matter in the forum, I'm kind of surprised that hasn't come up!

Mitch

If it's not isy controllable then the answer is no.

I'm not surprised. Most of us will pay more for an isy controlled plug as you have a broad range of options vs a singular use.  Saving a few dollars is nice but not if it limits our our options. Also we look at isy compatibility first then what connects to it such as Alexa or Google vs the other way around.

Edited May 9, 2020 by lilyoyo1

[simplextech]

11 hours ago, mvgossman said:

I bought an Amazon Smart Plug for $24.99

Amazon devices are cheap because they only work with Amazon.... the same with "most" Wifi devices.  They are tied into and locked into that vendor's ecosystem and usually do not work with anything else.  There are exceptions and some open devices.

Otherwise don't go cheap and buy products that are going to actually work without having to find some work around.  This is the biggest mistake most people make is going cheap and then having to learn that no it won't work and having to either return the device, toss it, make some kludge work around to get partial functionality and in the end ultimately buying the proper working device if they want something that actually works and is consistent.

 

[larryllix]

11 hours ago, mvgossman said:

I bought an Amazon Smart Plug for $24.99 because I know that I will not need to control it with the ISY994i, and it costs less than the Insteon Lamplinc. It's a neat little device, and simple to set up.

So is there in fact a way to control is from the ISY994i in case I need to have another controllable outlet and want to use the Amazon Smart Plug?

I searched for inquiries on this matter in the forum, I'm kind of surprised that hasn't come up!

Mitch

If amazon will give out the API for the device, then you or somebody else could write a NS for ISY or even use NRs to control it.

[tmorse305]

I don't have an Amazon plug so I can't try this but I think this would work.  Create a variable in ISY and expose it as a contact to Alexa via the portal.  Then write 2 routines on your Alexa that triggers the plug either on or off when the ISY variable changes.  Not ideal though because there is a 30 second debounce on the contact input so you can only cycle the light on 30 second intervals or longer.

Edited May 9, 2020 by tmorse305

[MrBill]

10 minutes ago, tmorse305 said:

I don't have an Amazon plug so I can't try this but I think this would work.  Create a variable in ISY and expose it as a contact to Alexa via the portal.  Then write 2 routines on your Alexa that triggers the plug either on or off when the ISY variable changes.  Not ideal though because there is a 30 second debounce on the contact input so you can only cycle the light on 30 second intervals or longer.

How do you use an ISY variable as a trigger in routine?    Bottom line I don't think you can, but if you can teach me I'd love to learn how to do this.  ISY variables seem to be one way with Alexa.  I have a number of them exposed to Alexa through the portal that I use for custom dimming levels (i.e. Alexa, set Bill's lamp to 50).  As best I can tell tho you can do nothing in the other direction (i.e. having Alexa do something because of a value changed to <whatever> ).

[mvgossman]

No way would I go cheap on Amazon's Smart Plug or any other plug that is not ISY controllable unless I absolutely know I will not need to control it. The price difference is not a meaningful one worth sacrificing functionality that might be nice to have later. I went cheap this once just because it is absolutely one that would be turned on and off in the room with its Echo Dot and nothing else. I also don't need dimming.

Having said that, you can set up some simple routines for the Amazon Smart Plug, such as turning off at specific times and sunrise/sunset.

Nothing like the ISY, not even close, but there's a role for the Amazon Plug here in this one situation.

Has the price of the Lamplinc gone down? When I went to verify the prices, I found $24.99 for the Amazon and $49.99 for the Lamplinc. I could have sworn the Lamplinc was more in the past, maybe they're feeling the competitive price pressure. If you need dimming and ISY control, being twice the price is well worth it.

[lilyoyo1]

6 minutes ago, mvgossman said:

No way would I go cheap on Amazon's Smart Plug or any other plug that is not ISY controllable unless I absolutely know I will not need to control it. The price difference is not a meaningful one worth sacrificing functionality that might be nice to have later. I went cheap this once just because it is absolutely one that would be turned on and off in the room with its Echo Dot and nothing else. I also don't need dimming.

Having said that, you can set up some simple routines for the Amazon Smart Plug, such as turning off at specific times and sunrise/sunset.

Nothing like the ISY, not even close, but there's a role for the Amazon Plug here in this one situation.

Has the price of the Lamplinc gone down? When I went to verify the prices, I found $24.99 for the Amazon and $49.99 for the Lamplinc. I could have sworn the Lamplinc was more in the past, maybe they're feeling the competitive price pressure. If you need dimming and ISY control, being twice the price is well worth it.

Thats always been the regular price.It's the same whether its the dimmer or relay. Both however go on sale quite often.

[tmorse305]

1 hour ago, MrBill said:

How do you use an ISY variable as a trigger in routine?    Bottom line I don't think you can, but if you can teach me I'd love to learn how to do this.  ISY variables seem to be one way with Alexa.  I have a number of them exposed to Alexa through the portal that I use for custom dimming levels (i.e. Alexa, set Bill's lamp to 50).  As best I can tell tho you can do nothing in the other direction (i.e. having Alexa do something because of a value changed to <whatever> ).

Create a variable on ISY and expose it as either a contact sensor or a motion sensor depending on what you want to do with it on the Alexa end.  Expose the variable to Alexa on the portal.

Then create an Alexa routine that uses the exposed variable as a trigger and then create what ever action you  desire.  I have several of these in use.  Just remember the 30 second debounce interval.  Changes will only trigger the action if they are > 30 second apart.

Examples of how I'm using this:

I have a WIreless Tag on my birdfeeder.  When a squirrel gets past the barrier (not too often) Alexa says "motion at birdfeeder".

I have an Insteon Motion sensor outside on my driveway, when triggered Alexa says "Driveway motion".

[MrBill]

28 minutes ago, tmorse305 said:

Create a variable on ISY and expose it as either a contact sensor or a motion sensor depending on what you want to do with it on the Alexa end.  Expose the variable to Alexa on the portal.

Then create an Alexa routine that uses the exposed variable as a trigger and then create what ever action you  desire.  I have several of these in use.  Just remember the 30 second debounce interval.  Changes will only trigger the action if they are > 30 second apart.

Examples of how I'm using this:

I have a WIreless Tag on my birdfeeder.  When a squirrel gets past the barrier (not too often) Alexa says "motion at birdfeeder".

I have an Insteon Motion sensor outside on my driveway, when triggered Alexa says "Driveway motion".

WOW... I just tried this... I didn't realize contact sensor or a motion sensor options existed and behaved differently than what I was doing already.

THANK YOU.

[mvgossman]

1 hour ago, tmorse305 said:

Create a variable on ISY and expose it as either a contact sensor or a motion sensor depending on what you want to do with it on the Alexa end.  Expose the variable to Alexa on the portal.

Then create an Alexa routine that uses the exposed variable as a trigger and then create what ever action you  desire.  I have several of these in use.  Just remember the 30 second debounce interval.  Changes will only trigger the action if they are > 30 second apart.

Examples of how I'm using this:

I have a WIreless Tag on my birdfeeder.  When a squirrel gets past the barrier (not too often) Alexa says "motion at birdfeeder".

I have an Insteon Motion sensor outside on my driveway, when triggered Alexa says "Driveway motion".

I'm mudding around in circles trying to make this work. Can you help me with the particulars? I've got my ISY Admin console, I created a variable called "motion". How do you expose it so that the ISY Portal/Alexa Echo detects the variable? My goal is to have a motion sensor detector change the variable, ISY Portal detects it, and causes Alexa to speak "Hello Mr. Burglar, Sheriff is being summoned". I assume that you'd have to manually change the variable, wait a minute, and change it back manually in that program so it's ready for another detection? The program would also do this only when the "someone's home" KPL button is on.

Once I understand this, I can see this as being extremely powerful.

[tmorse305]

Open the portal go to  Select Tool > Connectivity > Amazon Echo

Click on "Variable" at the top of the window

Use the pull down to find your state variable 'motion' (It has to be a state variable)

Choose Alexa Category "Motion Sensor"

Set the variable value that you decide means motion

Give it a spoken name

Save

Discover devices on Alexa

Your variable should now be a device with the name you gave it.

Create a routine with your variable as the trigger, create a spoken action (BTW the action could also include your Amazon plug!)

On the ISY side the variable value that equals motion should always be present for 30 seconds or more so Alexa doesn't miss it.  Then reset it back to a "no motion" value.  If you use other values for the variable just remember that every time the value changes you restart the Alexa 30 second debounce even if it didn't trigger the motion.  For example say 0 is no motion and 1 is motion detected.  If you change the variable value to 2 Alexa considers that the same as 0 and restarts the debounce interval.

Edited May 9, 2020 by tmorse305

[mvgossman]

Thanks for taking the time, I see it now, I was looking on the Alexa website, I see routines are only on portable devices.

[mvgossman]

2 hours ago, tmorse305 said:

Open the portal go to  Select Tool > Connectivity > Amazon Echo

Click on "Variable" at the top of the window

Use the pull down to find your state variable 'motion' (It has to be a state variable)

Choose Alexa Category "Motion Sensor"

Set the variable value that you decide means motion

Give it a spoken name

Save

Discover devices on Alexa

Your variable should now be a device with the name you gave it.

Create a routine with your variable as the trigger, create a spoken action (BTW the action could also include your Amazon plug!)

On the ISY side the variable value that equals motion should always be present for 30 seconds or more so Alexa doesn't miss it.  Then reset it back to a "no motion" value.  If you use other values for the variable just remember that every time the value changes you restart the Alexa 30 second debounce even if it didn't trigger the motion.  For example say 0 is no motion and 1 is motion detected.  If you change the variable value to 2 Alexa considers that the same as 0 and restarts the debounce interval.

I'm stuck again. I finally got the Variable to appear as a motion sensor device (#1).  Clicking this produces this screen (#2). I proceed to the Routine definition (#3).Add new (#4). On the "when this happens" page (#5) I don't see anything about a motion sensor or variable or anything else under any of those categories. What am I doing wrong? If I click Smart Home, I get seen #6, nothing there either. 

[mvgossman]

Incidentally, the whole range of my Insteon Devices is there which is handy.

 

I don't know why my August lock is there magically, but I like it. I just programmed a routine to turn on a local radio station when the door is unlocked.

[tmorse305]

Based on screen #2, you have defined the Alexa Category as a light not a motion sensor.  That's why it's not showing up in the routine choices.  Go back to the portal and double check the Alexa Category.  It should say Motion sensor, see screen shot.  The only ISY devices that show up in Alexa as those defined in the portal, if they're in Alexa you must have create the link in the portal.  For the August lock to show up you must have enabled the August skill for Alexa, or through the portal.

Edited May 10, 2020 by tmorse305

[mvgossman]

I did confirm that it is designated as a Motion Sensor on the ISY Portal. Can you show a shot of you "When this happens", which button you select (I assume it would appear under "Smart Home", and what it looks like there?

See screenshot on computer of the ISY Portal definition and its definition on the ISY console.

[tmorse305]

You're right it should show up under the 'Smart Home' listing.  The reason it's not showing up for you is that Alexa thinks it's a light.  Try deleting 'cottage motion' from Alexa and rediscovering it.  It should show up as a motion sensor not a light.

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by tmorse305

[MrBill]

@mvgossman and @tmorse305

two thoughts:

1) did you remember to say "Alexa, Discover devices" after adding it to the portal?

2) yesterday I had a really long delay waiting for a new scene to show up in the "routines".  The scene showed up under "scenes" in the devices section immediately but wasn't accessible from routines for a long time.   I'm not sure if the fix was A) waiting or b) Force quitting the Alexa app and restarting it.   I would have assumed it was B, but someone on another social media platform was complaining yesterday about delays with respect to routines.   (Interestingly, I noticed yesterday while troubleshooting my problem that "routines" don't even show up in the web interface from a computer browser at https://alexa.amazon.com which also surprised me because I tend to like the full browser Alexa interface better than the Alexa app).

[mvgossman]

I may have found an important clue to what's going wrong, last paragraph

But first, I definitely did remember to do "discover devices" before and it showed up in the devices list on Alexa app as it should. Most definitely it was a variable defined as a Motion sensor, and as a "state variable" on the ISY Console. To start from scratch, I deleted the device from ISY Portal, and did a "discover devices" fully expecting nothing to happen since it doesn't tell you that it notes that devices have been deleted, and checked Alexa app to verify that the device was gone, and it was. I re-added it it, see pic 1.

I went to the online Alexa.amazon.com and the Alexa app and verified that it re-appeared as a motion sensor variable, and it did, see pic 2 and 3.

But when going to create a routine, and selecting "when this happens", then "Smart Home" where the doggone thing should appear, it just doesn't, see pic 4.

I even removed it from the ISY and re-installed it, and nothing appears in the Smart Home Alexa list on the app when making a routine.

See pic 5 and pic 6 though for a clue that something's wrong. This is what you get when on the Alexa app you go to "All Devices" (pic 5) and select the motion sensor, and when you touch the GEAR ICON  upper right you get pic 6. I see that the descriptions says "Motion (variable)" no doubt because that's what I named it on the ISY Console,  but the "Type" is "Other"on the Alexa app. Should that say "Motion Sensor" as type since that's what's selected on the ISY page (Pic 1)?? If so, why doesn't it? 

 

 

[tmorse305]

Alexa is treating it as a light, that's why it displays the on/off controls.  A light will never show up it the trigger list.  Could you try deleting it from Alexa and then rediscovering it?  Don't touch anything in the portal, it seems ok from there but it is not coming through correctly.  In your last picture the type is "other", that's not correct, the description doesn't make sense either.  Compare to mine.   Is the state variable 'Motion' the first one you defined?  That's what the (1) would suggest.  Just checking.

Edited May 11, 2020 by tmorse305

[mvgossman]

Tmorse305: That's a good clue that the description differs radically from yours.

I flushed everything on the ISY itself, the ISY Portal, and Alexa app and started from scratch.

Pic 1 is the entry on the Variables page for my ISY Console UI.

It appears on the ISY Portal as Pic 2.

It appears on the Alexa app as Pic 3.

Note that the description is nothing like yours, it's the same name on all three, yet yours says ISY State Variable Address. I sense that I'm missing a step. I read something about "exposing" the variable, is there this step or some other step I'm missing?

I don't know if it matters, but I am running UI and Firmware  4.7.3. I see there's a 4.7.5, but doesn't appear widely adopted yet. One thing I have not done is cycle the ISY.

Mitch

[mvgossman]

I figured out the problem after searching for others who have had this issue and drilling down to the specific issue of the motion variable appearing as a light.

I have the Alexa ISY Skill V2. I just updated to V3 and it works perfectly

Thank you very much for the help, now I have to figure out what else I've been missing out on.

Here's the thread that clued me in, even though going to V3 didn't seem to help this chap.

 

[tmorse305]

I'm glad you figured it out, I was getting ready to suggest a support ticket, you seemed to be doing everything correctly.

[randyth]

While I agree that you should stick with "real" smart devices (i.e., ones natively supported by your ISY and/or one of its polyglot node servers), Amazon has a pretty good sale on its smart plugs right now. Order through your Alexa device (“Alexa, order an Amazon Smart Plug“) and you can get the first one for just $4.99.

Here's a link: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MZEEFNX

-Randy