How do I start Admin Console using Chrome or Edge browsers?

[Brian_A]

I've just updated my home old Windows 7 home automation / home theater PC to use Microsoft Edge Chromium from IE 11.  I cannot launch the Admin Console using either Edge or Chrome.  Elsewhere in the forum (https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/29967-running-admin-console-on-win-10/?do=findComment&comment=290667) I read a thread which suggested launching the console (admin.jnlp) using Oracle's Java web Launcher after downloading it from the device to my PC.  I too receive an "Unable to launch application " error which further specifies that the "chart.jar" file could not be located on my ISY device.  I am running firmware 4.8.0.  Any suggestions on how I can get past this error? Thanks.

 

--
Regards,
     Brian

[jec6613]

Option 1) Use ISY launcher.

Option 2) Use Internet Explorer.  You may laugh, but do you know how many pieces of really expensive (and even pretty new) tech rely on Java or an IE specific extension for administration in the IT world?  Keep it to sites on the intranet and off the internet and it's perfectly fine and works well.  And it's Windows 7, so you actually have IE on it, unlike the home editions of Windows 10 which lack it.

 

 

[madcodger]

Or, we could see a modern, mobile-friendly, secure approach that allowed one to use this ultra-reliable automation device with the tools we have all (well, most of the developed world) come to rely on. Tools like Chrome, Firefox, Safari, Windows 10, Mac OSX. 

As the ISY transitions to using polyglot/Polisy for essentially all new functionality, not having an easy, reliable way to see and access the devices created by nodeservers without launching  the admin console severely limits the utility of the device, in my opinion. It's UDI's prerogative to do this, of course, but it creates an issue for at least some (I would argue many) users. I just installed a new nodeserver last night that allows me to see and utilize the zones of my alarm panel, but I can do so easily only through the admin console. Sigh...

UDI has never placed much emphasis on user experience or the user interface. They have argued that this is because they need to devote limited resources to other areas. Fair enough, and again, their right to do so. But like most things, that has a price. I have argued that UDI pays it in terms of new business and market share in the home and light commercial automation market As users, we pay it in terms of ease of use and functionality. 

[Brian_A]

Thanks jec6613!  The issue with running admin.jnlp vanished after clearing the Java cache as part of the ISY Launcher installation.  All is well with the world :) .  I kn ow that I could use IE 11 but I prefer a single browser environment and IE 11 is not very useful as a browser these days.

 

--

Brian

[larryllix]

I was a strong supporter of IE 11. Now after doing some HTML5/CSS code writing I have found IE 11 is deprecated, way out of date.
I have also found problems with Chrome and Edge that FireFox doesn't have. OTOH, FireFox presents it's own problems.

 

However Admin Console doesn't run in any browser. It runs under java and is not browser related.

[Teken]

2 hours ago, madcodger said:

Or, we could see a modern, mobile-friendly, secure approach that allowed one to use this ultra-reliable automation device with the tools we have all (well, most of the developed world) come to rely on. Tools like Chrome, Firefox, Safari, Windows 10, Mac OSX. 

As the ISY transitions to using polyglot/Polisy for essentially all new functionality, not having an easy, reliable way to see and access the devices created by nodeservers without launching  the admin console severely limits the utility of the device, in my opinion. It's UDI's prerogative to do this, of course, but it creates an issue for at least some (I would argue many) users. I just installed a new nodeserver last night that allows me to see and utilize the zones of my alarm panel, but I can do so easily only through the admin console. Sigh...

UDI has never placed much emphasis on user experience or the user interface. They have argued that this is because they need to devote limited resources to other areas. Fair enough, and again, their right to do so. But like most things, that has a price. I have argued that UDI pays it in terms of new business and market share in the home and light commercial automation market As users, we pay it in terms of ease of use and functionality. 

Given the various Java environments will be deprecated at some *Sooner Than Later* point by almost everyone in the technology field. HTML5 will be the go forward interface for all of us down the road. As you noted their team is small and this impacts their ability to role out everything the end users want to see. I have no doubt UDI will offer a better method to interact with the (AC) Admin Console at some point.

From my birds eye view they have too many things on their plate with competing goals and timelines . . .

I'll state this again as I have in the past and that is the company find someone to help them launch a crowd funding campaign. This will be a multi purpose goal of hiring the talent to create a better user interface and mobile application. It will help fund and spur the development of the Polisy hardware platform so it can be the next generation Home Automation Controller - Sooner.

Lastly, I honestly believe they need to hire someone to design and build them an auxiliary box with lots of analog & digital I/O's. This box would support the most common industrial and enterprise class contacts and sensors. There are so many existing vendors who are just sitting around to do OEM / ODM for other companies. They can build to spec or just re-badge their own field proven technology hardware - why recreate the wheel??

Lastly, having watched and interacted with Michel over the course of twelve years. The man has come a long way like myself where new ideas and technology is considered and integrated.

It comes down to ROI, Time, and Resources  . . .

The man is like a Turtle, slow & steady - but always gets there!     ??

[jec6613]

1 hour ago, larryllix said:

I was a strong supporter of IE 11. Now after doing some HTML5/CSS code writing I have found IE 11 is deprecated, way out of date.
I have also found problems with Chrome and Edge that FireFox doesn't have. OTOH, FireFox presents it's own problems.

 

However Admin Console doesn't run in any browser. It runs under java and is not browser related.

Yeah, I'm not saying that IE11 is good, just that it's good that we have it.  If you get fancy, you can have certain sites launch in IE using admx templates as well for those known old ones.

Fewer and fewer utilities need IE anymore, but I still have a half a dozen or so and I'm glad I have IE for that.

[larryllix]

3 minutes ago, jec6613 said:

Yeah, I'm not saying that IE11 is good, just that it's good that we have it.  If you get fancy, you can have certain sites launch in IE using admx templates as well for those known old ones.

Fewer and fewer utilities need IE anymore, but I still have a half a dozen or so and I'm glad I have IE for that.

If you run multiple browsers you will soon find out that most webpages, if they support IE 11, are missing half the internet features. Webpage writing has become much more advanced and IE just hasn't progressed. This is why many webpages block it now. I have never found any webpages that require IE 11, in the last 5 years. I should mention that IE 11 does not have the bug I mentioned, that Chrome and Edge suffer from. I can detect it on all webpages at random. When you click on a link, at random they don't send a proper URL terminator and you have to click it again. Then the server will respond by returning the webpage twice. Most people will think they mis-keyed or mis-fingered the link.

The OP asked about browsers for admin console, but ISY admin console does not use any browser, and never did, AFAIK.

[Brian_A]

3 hours ago, larryllix said:

The OP asked about browsers for admin console, but ISY admin console does not use any browser, and never did, AFAIK.

True enough.  When I started this thread I understood that the admin console does not run under the browser.  However, the browser is supposed to start (launch?) the console's Java app.  I would prefer to use the native link mechanism designed into the ISY994 web server and existing web pages with a modern browser than use IE 11 or a separate Java mechanism.  KISS principle. I was hoping for a simple modern browser based solution given that the Java alternative was not working for me at the time.

I have enjoyed sidebar conversation after my issue was resolved.  Interesting.  I am unfamiliar with Polisy.  If LOVE what the ISY994 did to simplify my home automation controls. I must read up on the next gen.  Thanks all.

[MrBill]

1 hour ago, Brian_A said:

True enough.  When I started this thread I understood that the admin console does not run under the browser.  However, the browser is supposed to start (launch?) the console's Java app.  I would prefer to use the native link mechanism designed into the ISY994 web server and existing web pages with a modern browser than use IE 11 or a separate Java mechanism.  KISS principle. I was hoping for a simple modern browser based solution given that the Java alternative was not working for me at the time.

I have enjoyed sidebar conversation after my issue was resolved.  Interesting.  I am unfamiliar with Polisy.  If LOVE what the ISY994 did to simplify my home automation controls. I must read up on the next gen.  Thanks all.

Browser developers have stopped making it easy to click a link to start a Java app.   It's too dangerous and most users would probably click a malicious link that installed malware etc. that is disguised as a link for something else.   Not gonna name names but if the browser link says "here is your favorite type of cutey kittens, click here" could get you a cute kitten pic AND malware if java is allowed, thats why browser don't launch java anymore.

That's why ISY migrated to the launcher, which is not in anyway launched via a browser.

[larryllix]

5 hours ago, Brian_A said:

True enough.  When I started this thread I understood that the admin console does not run under the browser.  However, the browser is supposed to start (launch?) the console's Java app.  I would prefer to use the native link mechanism designed into the ISY994 web server and existing web pages with a modern browser than use IE 11 or a separate Java mechanism.  KISS principle. I was hoping for a simple modern browser based solution given that the Java alternative was not working for me at the time.

I have enjoyed sidebar conversation after my issue was resolved.  Interesting.  I am unfamiliar with Polisy.  If LOVE what the ISY994 did to simplify my home automation controls. I must read up on the next gen.  Thanks all.

Yeah. You just need to re-associate java files with java so that launching them automatically uses java instead of your browser.

Sounds like you done that already!

[madcodger]

UDI has traditionally eschewed subscription models, or kept those costs extremely low (e.g., the portal). Personally, I would gladly pay a reasonable annual subscription fee if, in return, I had better meaningfully better ability to access my ISY from my iPhone, including use of devices created by nodeservers. What's reasonable? Tough question. $49-99 comes to mind, but that's just a random anchoring point likely influenced by other subscriptions I have,.I should note that I do not generally see the value of crowdfunding for businesses, but it's an idea I can't throw away, either. Personally, my reluctance would be the likely lack of a deadline for output.

Anyway, UDI can do what it wants, and I wish them well. They make a very reliable device, so I continue to use and recommend it. The effects of user interface and its importance to the market will have whatever effect they have, in terms of their business. It's a modest annoyance to me, but it's not my business to worry about.

[apostolakisl]

@Brian_A

Windows 7 is no longer supported by my understanding.  I believe that as of 1/2020 they discontinued even critical security patches.   So I would suggest moving to Win10.  Perhaps if this PC never touches the internet, you will be OK.

And I think you already figured out to use the ISY launcher app.  This is totally independent of any browser.  Also, the launcher gets messed up with java updates.  So, when updating Java, you need to delete the shortcut, clear the java cache, and run the start.jnlp installer again to create a new and working launcher along with a new shortcut.  If you don't delete the shortcut, you will get a working version of the launcher, but it won't install the correct shortcut on your desktop.  It is said that you should clear the java cache with updates to ISY firmware, however, I have never done so and have never had a problem.  Only Java updates, which seem to crash it every time.  Although, if you are running Win7, it is likely that you will never be prompted to update Java as Java updates seem to directly follow windows updates, which there will be none of for Win7.

[larryllix]

51 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

@Brian_A

Windows 7 is no longer supported by my understanding.  I believe that as of 1/2020 they discontinued even critical security patches.   So I would suggest moving to Win10.  Perhaps if this PC never touches the internet, you will be OK.

And I think you already figured out to use the ISY launcher app.  This is totally independent of any browser.  Also, the launcher gets messed up with java updates.  So, when updating Java, you need to delete the shortcut, clear the java cache, and run the start.jnlp installer again to create a new and working launcher along with a new shortcut.  If you don't delete the shortcut, you will get a working version of the launcher, but it won't install the correct shortcut on your desktop.  It is said that you should clear the java cache with updates to ISY firmware, however, I have never done so and have never had a problem.  Only Java updates, which seem to crash it every time.  Although, if you are running Win7, it is likely that you will never be prompted to update Java as Java updates seem to directly follow windows updates, which there will be none of for Win7.

...and your Admin Console themes, including font sizes will have to be redefined again every time. PITA!

If you continue to accept updates to Windows 7 it will cease two work for almost all apps. MS will make sure you are forced to upgrade. If you have the original installation CD Win 7 will become very fast again and everything will start to function again.

I still run MS Office 1997 despite all their attempts to stop it and ruin it.

[Brian_A]

@larryllix

Thanks for your concern.  However, I am satisfied with the JRE solution after clearing the Java cache.  My Win 7 system is fast and rock solid. It serves primarily as a Windows Media Center server / DVR and server to various home automation and networking applications.  Windows 7 updates were disabled many years ago (never needed).  As for MS forcing upgrades, I run internet attached legacy systems from Win 98 to Windows 10 and forced upgrades don't happen.  Their best attempt to force upgrades came with the Win 8 / 8.1 to Win 10 via a windows "update" patch.  Simply clearing a registry flag prevented the patch from ever executing or being requested.

__
Brian

[Mustang65]

22 hours ago, larryllix said:

I still run MS Office 1997 despite all their attempts to stop it and ruin it.

Still running MS Office 2003 on 2 of my boxes. My laptop has MS HUP version of Office running

[asbril]

31 minutes ago, Mustang65 said:

Still running MS Office 2003

Go for the free Libreoffice and you won't regret it. Free and fully compatible with MSOffice.

[asbril]

23 hours ago, larryllix said:

I still run MS Office 1997 despite all their attempts to stop it and ruin it.

You just blasted my image of you as a man of he world..... Try the free Libreoffice. It is fully compatible with MSOffice and you can set it that your documents are automatically created and saved in the respective (Word, Excel, etc) MSOffice formats.

[larryllix]

1 hour ago, asbril said:

You just blasted my image of you as a man of he world..... Try the free Libreoffice. It is fully compatible with MSOffice and you can set it that your documents are automatically created and saved in the respective (Word, Excel, etc) MSOffice formats.

I haven't really needed any of those tools lately so I haven't bothered yet. I used it on my RPi but my desk behind the couch got tossed when listing the house for sale last year. Now the RPis are being used for other purposes and a fast laptop has taken it's place.

At the suggestion of @io_guy I started using NotePad+ and it works very well for a lot of different file types. Over fancy text docs and spreadsheets have become mostly obsolete in my world, lately. They are so 90's.

[Mustang65]

4 hours ago, asbril said:

Go for the free Libreoffice and you won't regret it. Free and fully compatible with MSOffice.

i do have it on one of the boxes. One of the MS updates said I could no longer use 2003, but I found a way to get it to run. Some of my financial stock macros did not work with the Openoffice. So I still use the 2003 on the other boxes. MS will find a way to kill them sooner or later. The HUP is a 2019 version i think. Still like the 2003 Excel better.

[DOMS]

I am sorry but I am lost on bringing up the ISY program with the Launcher.  

I have latest Java installed.

I have clicked the "ISY Launcher" and then tried to "Load" my last backup, but nothing happens.  The file is:

ISY-Backup.v4.8.0__Sun 2020.06.28 11.36.18 PM.zip

I am able to reach the console the old way.

 

 

 

[Teken]

I am sorry but I am lost on bringing up the ISY program with the Launcher.  
I have latest Java installed.
I have clicked the "ISY Launcher" and then tried to "Load" my last backup, but nothing happens.  The file is:
ISY-Backup.v4.8.0__Sun 2020.06.28 11.36.18 PM.zip
I am able to reach the console the old way.
 
 
 

Click on the field with all the values and it will present you with two options. One is to launch the AC.


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