I am having real problems getting my system to play nice

[tbe]

I have an ISY-99ir with 2.7 firmware which was updated early on in the instalation. All devices ahould be Insteon V2. I have done a significant amount of programmint already and do not wish to start from scratch. I am begining to suspect possibly weak communication issues; I have a pair of access points correctly set up centrally located and the house is not that all that large, perhaps 3,500 Sq. Ft. Perhaps this is not enough. I am getting a lot of "link error" confirmations at keypads and having trouble loading scenes. I guess what I am looking for here is a step by step method by which to resolve the issues I am having. I was going to start by adding a phase coupler at the panel and see if that helps things. I have done a whole lot of scene and button scene programming and am having nightmares about having to rebuild the entire beast to resolve the issues I am having. There must be a logical progressive step method to root out the issues and get the system working error free. This system has 12 keylinc dimmers and roughly 50 or so other devices.

 

tbe

[Brian H]

Does sound like some communications issue.

 

You said Firmware 2.7.0.

 

If the modules are fairly new. They maybe I2 protocol devices and if memory serves me Beta 2.7.6 may help.

 

UDI may verify if my memory is correct.

 

In the Smarthome Forums you indicated you moved up to the ISY99i from HouseLinc 2. Are you trying to use the PLM from the HL2 package?

[tbe]

i am not using the same PLM as was used with Houselinc 2; it came bundled with the ISY-99ir and has since been replaced once. What is UDI? I am not sure which firmware was shipped with the ISY originally. All components were purchased within the last 4 months.

 

tbe

[oberkc]

This sounds similar to my experiences, and I concluded also that it was communication problems. I found when communication was bad due to interference or such, it took a long time to establish links and scenes. When communication was good, things happened pretty quickly and without link errors. It ended up that most of my problems were due to devices causing interference.

 

I never did come up with a way to positively identify the problems. It was all trial-and-error. I became very familiar with the scene test (under diagnostics), while unplugging suspect devices and shutting off individual house circuits. Unfortunately, this was very time consuming. One thing I found very interesting is that having the PLM on the same circuit as the computer (even with the computer on a filter) was no good for me.

 

I wish I could help more.

[Brian H]

UDI. Universal Devices Inc.

 

I believe 2.7.0 was the last official released firmware and would be automatically found for an update.

 

Most of us have opted to install the latest Beta; that has to be done manually. As things where added and fixed.

[tbe]

I am begining to think this is a firmware issue as it relates to Insteon V2 and the pre 2.7 firmware that shipped with the ISY-99ir. I have been removing devices from the ISY and reseting them and rebuilding the links and they work fine afterwords. It is a royal pain it the @ss and it is unfortunate that there is not a way to preserve the programming already done without have to do it all again (device restore does not do the trick). I am sure adding additional access points will help speed up the process however I do not think it is the primary issue here. One question I have for those in the know is: can I delete the device and "add new device" to the ISY selecting "clear existing lincs" and get the same result?; Will this accomplish the same thing as doing a hard factory reset first? If I can do more of my work remotely online it would be a lot better for my client. I am spending more time at there house that I am at my own.

 

tbe

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello tbe,

 

I am so very sorry to hear about this and I totally empathize with you and the task ahead of you.

 

First of all, I really do not think adding Access Points is going to make the process faster or smoother. If you do not have any communications problems, do not spend any money and effort on access points.

 

Yes, you can remove the device from ISY and the add it back using the first option. This said, however, some devices (such as SWL 35, KPL 1.5/1.55) do not always play nice and might not allow ISY to change the high watermark (this is where you will see the extra records at the end).

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

I am begining to think this is a firmware issue as it relates to Insteon V2 and the pre 2.7 firmware that shipped with the ISY-99ir. I have been removing devices from the ISY and reseting them and rebuilding the links and they work fine afterwords. It is a royal pain it the @ss and it is unfortunate that there is not a way to preserve the programming already done without have to do it all again (device restore does not do the trick). I am sure adding additional access points will help speed up the process however I do not think it is the primary issue here. One question I have for those in the know is: can I delete the device and "add new device" to the ISY selecting "clear existing lincs" and get the same result?; Will this accomplish the same thing as doing a hard factory reset first? If I can do more of my work remotely online it would be a lot better for my client. I am spending more time at there house that I am at my own.

 

tbe

[MikeB]

One question I have for those in the know is: can I delete the device and "add new device" to the ISY selecting "clear existing lincs" and get the same result?; Will this accomplish the same thing as doing a hard factory reset first?

 

One other thought is that using the ISY to clear links does NOT remove any X10 codes that might be stored on the devices. Though you may not have programmed any X10 codes, Smarthome has been known to ship devices with X10 codes pre-programmed during testing from the factory.

 

This could cause some grief and aggravation. Because of this, I make it a habit to factory reset EVERY INSTEON module I install before using.

[sanders2222]

I just experienced similar communication problems with my ISY/PLM and lost some of the functions of some devices. I think my problems were introduced when I tried to link a defective motion sensor. One step with the sensor was to plug an Access Point directly into my PLM.

 

My fix was to remove all existing links in my ISY, and then re-link them. I used the option to "add to saved existing links" (which I had just deleted). All seems stable now.

 

I also had to recreate all my scenes but did not have to re-enter any of my programs. It only took a fraction of the time I spent initially doing this. And a lot less time then I spent working with Tech Support trying to figure out what my problem was.

[tbe]

This problem seems to be more centered around button scenes which are hit and miss. If they are executed from scene test they seem to work 100% of the time; it mostly problematic when executed by the ISY program. I am not sure exactly how to interpet the event log or if it even gives me what I need to know on this issue.

 

The following is a properly executed button scene change:

 

2009/10/14 18:59:15 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 10.01.5A 00.00.03 C7 11 00 LTONRR (00)

 

2009/10/14 18:59:15 : [standard-Group][10.01.5A-->Group=3] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

2009/10/14 18:59:15 : [ 10 1 5A 3] DON 0

 

2009/10/14 18:59:15 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 10.01.5A 0F.D7.E9 41 11 03 LTONRR (03)

 

2009/10/14 18:59:15 : [standard-Cleanup][10.01.5A-->ISY/PLM Group=3] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

 

2009/10/14 18:59:15 : [ 10 5 30 1] ST 255

 

2009/10/14 18:59:15 : [ 10 1 5A 3] ST 255

 

2009/10/14 18:59:15 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.2A CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

 

2009/10/14 18:59:15 : [ 10 83 D8 1] ST 0

 

2009/10/14 18:59:15 : [ 10 81 82 1] ST 0

 

2009/10/14 18:59:15 : [ 10 83 50 1] ST 0

 

2009/10/14 18:59:15 : [ 10 1 5A 1] ST 0

 

===================================================

 

The next group is a button scene change which got hung up. 10.01.5A Button C is supposed to tell the ISY to turn of 10.01.5A Button A (and other buttons):

 

2009/10/14 19:02:39 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 10.01.5A 00.00.03 C7 11 00 LTONRR (00)

 

2009/10/14 19:02:39 : [standard-Group][10.01.5A-->Group=3] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

2009/10/14 19:02:39 : [ 10 1 5A 3] DON 0

 

2009/10/14 19:02:39 : [ 10 5 30 1] ST 255

 

2009/10/14 19:02:39 : [ 10 1 5A 3] ST 255

 

2009/10/14 19:02:39 : [ 10 83 D8 1] ST 0

 

2009/10/14 19:02:39 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.2A CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

 

2009/10/14 19:02:39 : [ 10 81 82 1] ST 0

 

2009/10/14 19:02:39 : [ 10 83 50 1] ST 0

 

2009/10/14 19:02:40 : [ 10 1 5A 1] ST 0

 

The issue seems to be almost exclusivley with ISY program commands and not device to device communication.

 

tbe

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello tbe,

 

Looking at your logs, I do not see how it hung because it is doing what it was told. So, here's how you can interpret things:

1. For every INST-ACK (ack from the PLM), you should see one INST-SRX (response from the actual device)

2. The only exception to the above is when you activate a scene from ISY in which case INST-ACK is followed by a series of statuses for the devices within the scene

 

Now, if scene activations have problems (hit/miss) when done through programs, then is it possible that the problem is time related? Is it possible that at certain times there is noise on the powerline which prevents the PLM from communicating with your devices? This would explain why scene test works while programs are hit/miss.

 

You might want to add an Access Point right on top of the PLM to see if you get any improvements.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[tbe]

This issue is really begining to frustrate me. The buttons should be able to display on or off status on buttons period, for whatever reason I want it to. I should at least be able to do it though the program menu and non load buttons are not availabe there either. My communication between devices is excellent. My guess is that because normally a single group command is sent out and all devices tied to that group respond. In this case of button scenes I believe that because there is no single group for that scene (i am suspecting this because the scene has no controller device) that all the devices are not grouped together and sent multiple commands simultaineously, saturating the network, resulting in missed communication. Please resovle this soon, it should not be an issue for what I am trying to do here. It is driving me nuts.

 

tbe

[MikeB]

I should at least be able to do it though the program menu and non load buttons are not availabe there either.

 

Correct, KeypadLinc secondary buttons cannot be controlled unless you first add them to a scene. Then you must control the scene to turn the button on/off.

 

I believe that because there is no single group for that scene (i am suspecting this because the scene has no controller device) that all the devices are not grouped together and sent multiple commands simultaineously, saturating the network, resulting in missed communication. Please resovle this soon, it should not be an issue for what I am trying to do here. It is driving me nuts.

 

I don't quite follow what you are saying. Could you post a particular example of what problem you are having? Please list devices/scenes and the Program you are running.

 

It's true that simultaneous or near-simultaneous commands can collide on the powerline. If you have multiple programs triggering simultaneously you can have issues. I'd recommend placing WAITS to space them out as needed.

[tbe]

Problem solved!

 

When I add 3 second delay to button scene, all worked well. I had tried a 1 second delay before which I had thought would be enough time; apparenetly it was not. My guess is that the blind scene request was colliding with cleanup responses which take longer than a second to quiet down. I would still like to see non load button status added to the main programming menu for responders (on keylink devices which support this capability).

 

Thank you,

 

tbe