Zwave Long Range

[lilyoyo1]

You might want to hold off on 900 series @asbril
 https://venturebeat-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/venturebeat.com/2020/09/08/z-wave-long-range-protocol-supports-up-to-2000-smart-devices-on-a-mesh-network/amp/?usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D&amp_js_v=0.1#aoh=15996569809654&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fventurebeat.com%2F2020%2F09%2F08%2Fz-wave-long-range-protocol-supports-up-to-2000-smart-devices-on-a-mesh-network%2F

[asbril]

1 hour ago, lilyoyo1 said:

You might want to hold off on 900 series @asbril
 https://venturebeat-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/venturebeat.com/2020/09/08/z-wave-long-range-protocol-supports-up-to-2000-smart-devices-on-a-mesh-network/amp/?usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D&amp_js_v=0.1#aoh=15996569809654&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fventurebeat.com%2F2020%2F09%2F08%2Fz-wave-long-range-protocol-supports-up-to-2000-smart-devices-on-a-mesh-network%2F

Wow.......  That looks good, but it will be a while before it will get to my ISY. Maybe UDI can jump from 500 to  Zwave LR and skip 700.  That article is the first time I hear about Amazon Sidewalk. The future of home automating is exciting and confusing. Hopefully UDI can continue to integrate a variety of protocols, either directly or through nodeservers.

@lilyoyo1 Thanks for bringing to my attention.

[lilyoyo1]

10 minutes ago, asbril said:

Wow.......  That looks good, but it will be a while before it will get to my ISY. Maybe UDI can jump from 500 to  Zwave LR and skip 700.  That article is the first time I hear about Amazon Sidewalk. The future of home automating is exciting and confusing. Hopefully UDI can continue to integrate a variety of protocols, either directly or through nodeservers.

@lilyoyo1 Thanks for bringing to my attention.

You're welcome. I read up on sidewalk and it sounds promising.

My only problem is that it simply adds to this growing list of protocols that are not compatible with each other. I'd love for the ISY to support LR. It would cut down on how many repeaters one needs drastically.

[simplextech]

41 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

You're welcome. I read up on sidewalk and it sounds promising.

My only problem is that it simply adds to this growing list of protocols that are not compatible with each other. I'd love for the ISY to support LR. It would cut down on how many repeaters one needs drastically.

Interesting.  Sidewalk reads A LOT like what Z-Wave LR actually is.  Same 900Mhz spectrum and current "tests" were with Ring which has z-wave 700 series products.  Z-Wave LR is using the same 700 series chip and is a change (at software) of the modulation technique for the radio to provide the LR capabilities.

[lilyoyo1]

18 minutes ago, simplextech said:

Interesting.  Sidewalk reads A LOT like what Z-Wave LR actually is.  Same 900Mhz spectrum and current "tests" were with Ring which has z-wave 700 series products.  Z-Wave LR is using the same 700 series chip and is a change (at software) of the modulation technique for the radio to provide the LR capabilities.

Good to know. I wonder if it will require all devices to support LR like most zwave updates do (I hope not)

[asbril]

48 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Good to know. I wonder if it will require all devices to support LR like most zwave updates do (I hope not)

I think the article mentions that LR is backwards compatible. Of course, as we know, you don't get all advantages without all your devices being of the latest technology. Good to know that LR will use series 700 rather than an even newer (900?).  I am still in the process of gradually replacing my older Zwave devices to 500 series and my guess is that it will be at least another two years before I have a reasonable number of 700 devices.  With my more than 70 Zwave devices, it is not cheap to keep up.

[lilyoyo1]

39 minutes ago, asbril said:

I think the article mentions that LR is backwards compatible. Of course, as we know, you don't get all advantages without all your devices being of the latest technology. Good to know that LR will use series 700 rather than an even newer (900?).  I am still in the process of gradually replacing my older Zwave devices to 500 series and my guess is that it will be at least another two years before I have a reasonable number of 700 devices.  With my more than 70 Zwave devices, it is not cheap to keep up.

I'd have to confirm what they mean by backwards compatible. 5 and 700 series is backwards compatible with 300 series though you would miss out on some features.

I wouldn't even try to keep up with zwave. With how things change, it's a waste. With a house full of devices most benefits wouldn't matter anyway. I'd replace devices as they age with newer devices but not necessarily rip it out and start over for no reason

[Michel Kohanim]

Taking the fifth!

With kind regards,
Michel

[asbril]

38 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

Taking the fifth!

With kind regards,
Michel

Michel, I take that as a positive message ?

[larryllix]

40 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

Taking the fifth!

With kind regards,
Michel

 

fifth

n.

1. The ordinal number matching the number five in a series.

2. One of five equal parts.

3. One fifth of a gallon or four fifths of a quart of liquor.

4. Music

a. A tone five degrees above or below a given tone in a diatonic scale.

b. The interval between two such tones.

c. The harmonic combination of two such tones.

d. The dominant of a scale or key.

5. Fifth The Fifth Amendment. Used with the.

[gzahar]

3 hours ago, larryllix said:

fifth

n.

3. One fifth of a gallon or four fifths of a quart of liquor.

Ahhhh!  I was always doing 750ml * 5 and wondering where in the world 3.75 L came from.  Never thought to convert to imperial!  Thanks @larryllix  (too lazy to google)

[madcodger]

What I'll find interesting is the speed of adoption by hub manufacturers, including (very importantly) UDI. We just got access to 500-series capabilities in the last two weeks, even as other manufacturers are shipping devices with the 700-series chip. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, but speed of availability and ease of use seem to be driving adoption of most consumer devices these days. It will be interesting to see how UDI decides to play this. 

[lilyoyo1]

34 minutes ago, madcodger said:

What I'll find interesting is the speed of adoption by hub manufacturers, including (very importantly) UDI. We just got access to 500-series capabilities in the last two weeks, even as other manufacturers are shipping devices with the 700-series chip. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, but speed of availability and ease of use seem to be driving adoption of most consumer devices these days. It will be interesting to see how UDI decides to play this. 

If the 700 series chip has the capability built in and it's just modulation via firmware update then hopefully it'll be easier to implement.

Unfortunately controllers have always lagged far behind devices in implementation. The cost, time to design, and test limits how quickly they can turn around to a new product at any given moment. The good thing which I hope helps is that UDI has stated they'll be going with an off the shelf solution for 700 series once they are ready for polisy instead of an in house design. Hopefully this will make it quicker for them to adapt to future changes. 

[asbril]

42 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

If the 700 series chip has the capability built in and it's just modulation via firmware update then hopefully it'll be easier to implement.

Unfortunately controllers have always lagged far behind devices in implementation. The cost, time to design, and test limits how quickly they can turn around to a new product at any given moment. The good thing which I hope helps is that UDI has stated they'll be going with an off the shelf solution for 700 series once they are ready for polisy instead of an in house design. Hopefully this will make it quicker for them to adapt to future changes. 

I have been reading a bit more about the Amazon Sidewalk project and it seems that it is supposed to be a new technology and not built on either Zigbee or Zwave, even though  it may be on same frequency range as Zwave. One of the questions/issues that I have seen is whether Amazon's Alexa range of devices will be compatible with Sidewalk and that appears to be doubtful unless their controller includes various technologies and not just the new one. Of course Amazon has the capacity to bring new compatible products and if their system is easy to use, it may appeal to the mass market.

This is all interesting but I note that Apple Homekit has largely been a non event so far. Apple or Amazon would do better by acquiring  UDI and build & expand on a proven product and environment.

[lilyoyo1]

2 hours ago, asbril said:

I have been reading a bit more about the Amazon Sidewalk project and it seems that it is supposed to be a new technology and not built on either Zigbee or Zwave, even though  it may be on same frequency range as Zwave. One of the questions/issues that I have seen is whether Amazon's Alexa range of devices will be compatible with Sidewalk and that appears to be doubtful unless their controller includes various technologies and not just the new one. Of course Amazon has the capacity to bring new compatible products and if their system is easy to use, it may appeal to the mass market.

This is all interesting but I note that Apple Homekit has largely been a non event so far. Apple or Amazon would do better by acquiring  UDI and build & expand on a proven product and environment.

I hope not. Apple, Amazon, or any major corporation buying UDI would be a bad thing. They aren't buying with the desire to enhance or expand the isy. Generally, they want the talent and technology for their own means. While it may be kept running for a period of time, the end of the isy would be sooner rather than later.

Look at revolve when it first came out....For a gen1 product it held a lot of promise. Google buys them and where are they now?

Same thing with smart things. Prior to Samsung buying them, their path was so much brighter in regards to capability. Now (especially with it being in the hands of Samsung) it's very limited.

I'm sure Amazon will figure something out in regards to sidewalk being backwards compatible. It makes most sense for it to be compatible with today's lineup with so many people already having units in their homes. But then again, if it's priced right, it's about time for people to be ok with upgrading to a new one if it's that important to them. 

[asbril]

6 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I hope not. Apple, Amazon, or any major corporation buying UDI would be a bad thing. They aren't buying with the desire to enhance or expand the isy. Generally, they want the talent and technology for their own means. While it may be kept running for a period of time, the end of the isy would be sooner rather than later.

Look at revolve when it first came out....For a gen1 product it held a lot of promise. Google buys them and where are they now?

Same thing with smart things. Prior to Samsung buying them, their path was so much brighter in regards to capability. Now (especially with it being in the hands of Samsung) it's very limited.

I'm sure Amazon will figure something out in regards to sidewalk being backwards compatible. It makes most sense for it to be compatible with today's lineup with so many people already having units in their homes. But then again, if it's priced right, it's about time for people to be ok with upgrading to a new one if it's that important to them. 

Good points @lilyoyo1

[xlurkr]

Another example, more for us old codgers, is Leviton's acquisition of HAI.  Bong.  Bong.  Bong...

That's supposed to represent the funereal bell toll, not an invitation to fire up, btw.

-Tom