Bringing ISY onboard a large Insteon Hub @ network

[PB11]

Greetings.

The guts of it.

I have just shy of 100 Insteon devices, about 30 zwave, 7 echoes, 1 Insteon hub v2, 1 SmartThings hub.

I have scenes created in both Insteon and smartthings, and many routines via Alexa, and Yonomi.

With the loss of Stringify, I’ve been flounder to find something that would give me the more granular programming functionality.

I’ve had an isy 994ir/pro for several years, but because of the simplicity of Strigify never touched it until a few weeks ago.

I brought the isy into the mix with mobilinc X and it either reset or corrupted all my programming both local to the Insteon devices and the scenes and routines on Alexa.

I pulled it from the mix and rebuilt my network which took approx a week.

I found a great explanation on smartthings forum about 5 years old, on how to run Both isy and Insteon controllers in parallel. Pretty much identical to my current setup. Except his worked. I believe using both controllers (isy does all programming) gives the Alexa functionality without needing the isy or mobilinc portal.

https://forum.smarthome.com/topic.asp?whichpage=0.966666666666667&TOPIC_ID=17353#106665

I desperately want the In-depth programming offered by isy not to mention some of the functionality that has been lost with some Insteon devices i.e i/o linc, geofencing

I’m just A little unsure about a few things.

1) first and foremost is how to move forward. Do I erase everything and start clean. Massive undertaking. 

2) am i right in assuming the Insteon hub will give me internet access to my network and Alexa functionality without needing either portal?

3) what’s the difference between isy and mobilinc portal other then interface and the mobilinc app.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.

PB 

[larryllix]

Welcome to the forums!!

For ISY994 the best route is to factory reset each device and link to your ISY 994. Bad or lingering  links can cause some problems later.

Before linking any devices or writing any programs, upgrade ISY to the latest firmware version v5.2.0. It will be much easier sooner than later.

The ISY Portal will give you a complete interface to Alexa, GH devices and IFTTT, as well as remote access via UDIs VPN style access.

I wouldn't try to run dual access using two central controllers. It is a major undertaking that can cause real problems if you are not constantly on guard for conflicts. Too much effort to maintain and mentally keep track of.

 

You aren't secretly Spiderman, are you?

[MrBill]

My opinions, I'm sure you will get many:

1) bite the bullet and start over.   Factory reset every device and add it just to the ISY/PLM.  Retire the Insteon hub, you don't need it, keeping it adds a layer of complexity that you will never be content having.

2) you don't need it.

3) I use the ISY portal.  I'll stop and not compare the two because I've never actually had Mobilinc Connect.  I basically prefer to support UDI directly.   I will say that Mobilinc Connect does (I think) have a more direct method for Push Notifications, however I use a free 3rd party, Pushover and I'm quite happy with the solution (there are nodeservers to support Pushover.).

[lilyoyo1]

I agree with everyone here. Factory reset and start clean. While you can use multiple hubs with insteon, it's not recommended unless you truly know insteon in depth.

There will be alot of babysitting even if you are an advanced user and help will be hard to come by. By mixing your environment, it'll be hard to find where the issue is. Most will simply tell you to factory reset and re-add. 

Reading the link you sent, I can tell you now, he's made ALOT of compromises with his setup. While it may work, he made sacrifices in regards to how much he could accomplish from an isy standpoint with programs as well as the best feature of insteon in regards to scene control. If the actual automation experience doesn't matter to you then his method would be sufficient. 

If you want the in-depth programming then stick with the system that does just that. The isy needs to manage everything. That means going with the portal and/or mobilinc. 

As pointed out earlier, upgrade your isy firmware to 5.2 and start with that. You'll have to go through it anyway at some point. Might as well start fresh to avoid any issues down the road. 

There's no difference with using mobilinc portal or isy portal. I prefer isy because everything stays within 1 ecosystem. Much easier to troubleshoot that way. Not only that, If you want to use a different interface you don't have to worry about re-doing your system Everytime. With the isy portal, you also get the network module for free in addition to polyglot cloud which allows you to add other devices to your isy such as ring, ecobee, and Sonos. Yes, starting over is a lot of work. DO NOT TAKE SHORTCUTS. Doing so will hurt much much more and will take much longer than starting with a clean slate. Do one room at a time. Factory reset your devices, create your scenes and and them. Then move onto the next room. Start with the least used room and move to the bigger stuff as you gain confidence and knowledge

 

[MrBill]

3 hours ago, PeterBarker11 said:

I’ve had an isy 994ir/pro for several years,

 

12 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

As pointed out earlier, upgrade your isy firmware to 5.2 and start with that

It should be noted that if you've had your ISY for several years, you may need to upgrade the internal z-wave board before proceeding to 5.2 firmware.  If your ISY has a series 300 Z-wave board there will be a blue LED on the BACK of the ISY, right next to PORT A.  If you don't have the Blue LED then you should already have the 500 series Z-wave board (assuming you have a Z-wave model.)

[PB11]

Thanks All.
Clean it is. Here we go. 
I'll be back soon I'm sure. 
Spidey out. 

[PB11]

5 hours ago, MrBill said:

 

It should be noted that if you've had your ISY for several years, you may need to upgrade the internal z-wave board before proceeding to 5.2 firmware.  If your ISY has a series 300 Z-wave board there will be a blue LED on the BACK of the ISY, right next to PORT A.  If you don't have the Blue LED then you should already have the 500 series Z-wave board (assuming you have a Z-wave model.)

I didn't think my isy had a zwave. Its a 994ir/pro. Ive just ordered the zwave module but am now wondering if i already have it. 
i'm guessing the easiest way to confirm this is to crack open the case?

[lilyoyo1]

2 minutes ago, PeterBarker11 said:

I didn't think my isy had a zwave. Its a 994ir/pro. Ive just ordered the zwave module but am now wondering if i already have it. 
i'm guessing the easiest way to confirm this is to crack open the case?

You would have zwave options on the interface if it was the zwave version. 

[MrBill]

1 minute ago, PeterBarker11 said:

I didn't think my isy had a zwave. Its a 994ir/pro. Ive just ordered the zwave module but am now wondering if i already have it. 
i'm guessing the easiest way to confirm this is to crack open the case?

Check if you have this menu in the admin console:

If so check the version here.  ver 4.55 means 300 series dongle.  6.81 means 500 series dongle.

[shunsader]

Peter, glad that you're going to bit the bullet. I had about the same amount of equipment that you had about 8 years ago, then added a workshop and a 2,000 ft addition. I'm over 200 devices now, and have 31 parts on order from Smarthome last night for the latest addition, as well as my 'motion sensor project'. I was QUITE hesitant to start over since, well, the same reason you are. I ditched my HUB because it couldn't do a lot of the things I wanted it to do. Although it took about a weekend to update, you'll have a MUCH more granular control of what you're wanting to do. The big difference is that I'm an only Insteon installation at the moment, and things haven't been purring better. I'm really new to the forum, but I've found the help here to be incredibly helpful. Good luck, see you on the other side. -Steve

[PB11]

Wow. Awesome support and knowledge. 
Thanks again everyone. 

[larryllix]

1 hour ago, PeterBarker11 said:

Thanks All.
Clean it is. Here we go. 
I'll be back soon I'm sure. 
Spidey out. 

Backup frequently. ....maybe every 10 devices or programs you write and everytime you upgrade your firmware. Some backups are not backward compatible with previous firmware versions.

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, larryllix said:

Backup frequently. ....maybe every 10 devices or programs you write and everytime you upgrade your firmware. Some backups are not backward compatible with previous firmware versions.

I do what I call a clean slate backup. This is with all devices added and in the rooms prior to scenes and linking. If I ever want to stay fresh, I can upload this backup without having to go through adding everything all of again.

[PB11]

Any recommendations on best approach for resetting isy to factory?

[larryllix]

2 hours ago, PeterBarker11 said:

Any recommendations on best approach for resetting isy to factory?

A factory reset can be done by holding the reset button for an extended length of time. After that you will need to install the firmware of your choice and set your passsword and time zone, lat and long etc. You should be able to find detailed instructions in the UDI wiki. I do not have the link handy, sorry.

[Bumbershoot]

10 hours ago, PeterBarker11 said:

Any recommendations on best approach for resetting isy to factory?

1. Use a sharp object to push in the Reset Button till the RX, TX, Mem, Error lights start blinking (every second)
2. Hold for at least 30 seconds until all of the the RX, TX, Mem, Error lights turn off and Mem light starts flashing quickly
3. Release and wait for system reboot (reboot is complete when Mem light stops flashing)

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=Resetting_Your_ISY

[MrBill]

11 hours ago, PeterBarker11 said:

Any recommendations on best approach for resetting isy to factory?

@Bumbershoot linked the ISY factory reset page, also be sure to factory reset your PLM at the same time.

-> unplug, wait 10 seconds, hold set button while plugging in and continue to hold set button until long beep stops. 

[PB11]

Sorry everyone. That was a lazy question. I think I was just letting the entire undertaking overwhelm me. I will endeavor to reference the online resources.

 

With that said, I'm hoping I can ask a couple more questions I haven't really been able to answer from the CookBook.

1) Prior to yanking the isy i added all my devices and associated them with my naming convention. Is there any way to extract a list with my names associated with the insteon ID's?I really don't want to pull all the face plates from the light switches and outlets. Never mind the inline lincs i have up in a 15' ceiling.

2) Resetting devices. Is there a way for the ISY to send a factory reset command or is this best done local at each device?

3) Re-adding devices. Is the ISY linking mode not an option for this, or again is it best to go device by device?

On a side note, with my limited time on Mobilinc X for iPhone, this was a real nice feature. being able to walk around the house with a direct interface to isy allowed me to add a device and name and room associate at that moment.

 

Ok, i think that's it for now. My plan of attack is the following.

1) pull insteon hub

2) disassociate alexa from insteon and clear any scenes, routines, and devices 

3) Reset ISY, believe i updated firmware when I played with it a few weeks back, but will confirm. Will also confirm Z-wave

4) reset plm. didn't know this one. Thanks for this tip.

5)Bring ISY online, initial setup, portal setup

6) start adding devices. 

And most importantly, back up, backup, backup.

 

[larryllix]

If you have a working Hub system I would factory reset and link each device with ISY one at a time. Alexa can likely talk to both devices until you are complete. This may take a few days.

[PB11]

Thanks Larryllix.

I was already dreading the next several days.

[PB11]

Morning All.

Ok, some pretty good progress, and I'm gaining some understanding. Wonder if anyone can offer some clarity on the following.

1) 3 way switches. Scenario. 3 dimmers controlling one light.

I assume I need to do this via scene. I see there are parameters I can configure on the scene level as well as on the individual node in the scene. I assume the scene parameter settings ie "on level" are implemented when the scene is triggered, and the individual node settings are if the scene is triggered by the Node/switch itself? I am also assuming if any one node has different settings "on Levels" the scene will take on those settings if triggered from that node?

2) For Alexa to control a room ie, multiple lights in a room I need to create a scene named the same as the room? For example all kitchen lights in a scene named "Kitchen"

This should give me the ability to configure Alexa to blanked control a room. ie leave a room and ask alexa to turn off kitchen. How best to have dimming control over insteon room via Alexa? 

 

Hope thats understandable. Thanks for any suggestions.

PB

[MrBill]

1) yes add all 3 switches to the scene as controllers.   Then you have the ability to set the attributes for each controller (one switch could be full on, while another might be 50%, etc).  Setting the insteon attributes for the scene itself determines what happens when the ISY turns the scene on.

2) yep, create a scene for "kitchen".  the attributes for the scene/ isy itself are what Alexa will use.  If you have an extra keypad button available try adding that to the scene as a controller if you wish.

[lilyoyo1]

38 minutes ago, PeterBarker11 said:

Morning All.

Ok, some pretty good progress, and I'm gaining some understanding. Wonder if anyone can offer some clarity on the following.

1) 3 way switches. Scenario. 3 dimmers controlling one light.

I assume I need to do this via scene. I see there are parameters I can configure on the scene level as well as on the individual node in the scene. I assume the scene parameter settings ie "on level" are implemented when the scene is triggered, and the individual node settings are if the scene is triggered by the Node/switch itself? I am also assuming if any one node has different settings "on Levels" the scene will take on those settings if triggered from that node?

2) For Alexa to control a room ie, multiple lights in a room I need to create a scene named the same as the room? For example all kitchen lights in a scene named "Kitchen"

This should give me the ability to configure Alexa to blanked control a room. ie leave a room and ask alexa to turn off kitchen. How best to have dimming control over insteon room via Alexa? 

 

Hope thats understandable. Thanks for any suggestions.

PB

For simple on/off control, I use programs to turn on the main lights for whatever room I want to use with alexa/google. I'll put the main light in the then statement which will turn that on. Then in the "or else" statement I have a scene with every light in the room in it. Regardless of whats on or how it was turned on, saying turn off the lights will turn it off. My lights will automatically dim on their own depending on time and brightness. For certain rooms, I can tell them I want to relax and it will set the rooms to my preset dim levels. 

If you want specific dim levels, follow what MrBill said and use a specific light or button individually and then use variables to set the other switches to the matching levels.

[PB11]

10 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

For simple on/off control, I use programs to turn on the main lights for whatever room I want to use with alexa/google. I'll put the main light in the then statement which will turn that on. Then in the "or else" statement I have a scene with every light in the room in it. Regardless of whats on or how it was turned on, saying turn off the lights will turn it off. My lights will automatically dim on their own depending on time and brightness. For certain rooms, I can tell them I want to relax and it will set the rooms to my preset dim levels. 

If you want specific dim levels, follow what MrBill said and use a specific light or button individually and then use variables to set the other switches to the matching levels.

I like the sounds of this, but not quite understanding. I will come back around to this once I have my foundation programmed. Unless I'm missing something and programs are where I should be focusing.

[lilyoyo1]

1 minute ago, PeterBarker11 said:

I like the sounds of this, but not quite understanding. I will come back around to this once I have my foundation programmed. Unless I'm missing something and programs are where I should be focusing.

There's no right or wrong way to set this up. I use programs for multiple reasons. The main reason I do mine this way is that I can change my program devices without having to log into the portal or update the assistant. Secondly, it allows my on and off to respond differently than controlling individual scenes or devices. I don't try to control alot of stuff. I don't want to remember specific names or phrases.