Diagnostics

[dss]

I would like to see more tools to help with troubleshooting and finding line noise and interference. One suggestion is to have a tool to group devices by circuit. You would turn of one breaker and then it would flag those devices that then no longer communicate. Then you flag those all as circuit #1. Then turn that back on and switch off the next breaker. Those devices that go out are flagged as circuit #2 and so forth. Then you have a map of all the circuits on a certain group. Then have a diagnostic tool that test the signal to devices on a circuit devices between circuits which would help you pinpoint which circuit might have problems. Also could guide you as to where to put signalincs to bridge a week circuit.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi dss,

 

The first part of grouping devices does not seem very difficult. The second part which requires checking signal ratios is a little bit more involved. For that we have to wait for the long awaited S/N ratio from INSTEON devices.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

I would like to see more tools to help with troubleshooting and finding line noise and interference. One suggestion is to have a tool to group devices by circuit. You would turn of one breaker and then it would flag those devices that then no longer communicate. Then you flag those all as circuit #1. Then turn that back on and switch off the next breaker. Those devices that go out are flagged as circuit #2 and so forth. Then you have a map of all the circuits on a certain group. Then have a diagnostic tool that test the signal to devices on a circuit devices between circuits which would help you pinpoint which circuit might have problems. Also could guide you as to where to put signalincs to bridge a week circuit.

[dss]

Does the hop count give any indication of whether a device is isolated or weak? Or is it just an indication that there are devices between it and the source of the command? When looking at the hop count is it the hops between two devices or between the ISY and the device? Or perhaps a tool to bombard a device with command's and see what percent of commands are aknowledged vs dropped as and indication of reliability.

 

But I can see how a tree diagram of circuits, what phase their on, and identifying which are weak and then using that as a guide as to where to put signalincs would be great at beefing up the signal reliability.

 

Hi dss,

 

The first part of grouping devices does not seem very difficult. The second part which requires checking signal ratios is a little bit more involved. For that we have to wait for the long awaited S/N ratio from INSTEON devices.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

I would like to see more tools to help with troubleshooting and finding line noise and interference. One suggestion is to have a tool to group devices by circuit. You would turn of one breaker and then it would flag those devices that then no longer communicate. Then you flag those all as circuit #1. Then turn that back on and switch off the next breaker. Those devices that go out are flagged as circuit #2 and so forth. Then you have a map of all the circuits on a certain group. Then have a diagnostic tool that test the signal to devices on a circuit devices between circuits which would help you pinpoint which circuit might have problems. Also could guide you as to where to put signalincs to bridge a week circuit.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi dss,

 

The hop count only means the number of hops remaining before a repeater stops repeating. I do not think it would give a lot of information if the max count is 3.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[IndyMike]

Hi dss,

The first part of grouping devices does not seem very difficult. The second part which requires checking signal ratios is a little bit more involved. For that we have to wait for the long awaited S/N ratio from INSTEON devices.

 

Michel,

 

Am I to understand that Smarthome is working on implementing S/N measurement in the Insteon devices themselves??

 

Than would truly be a boon to the Insteon community. Do you know if this would be implemented in individual modules or just the PLM?

 

IM

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi IM,

 

That's what I heard about 1 year ago. Unfortunately I have not followed up and hoped that they would show up by themselves.

 

I will follow up - and if given permission - I will post back.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Hi dss,

The first part of grouping devices does not seem very difficult. The second part which requires checking signal ratios is a little bit more involved. For that we have to wait for the long awaited S/N ratio from INSTEON devices.

 

Michel,

 

Am I to understand that Smarthome is working on implementing S/N measurement in the Insteon devices themselves??

 

Than would truly be a boon to the Insteon community. Do you know if this would be implemented in individual modules or just the PLM?

 

IM

[ergodic]

I think the ISY could still assist with some sort of basic troubleshooting even in the current situation.

 

Some plain-language interpretation of the event log lines would be very helpful ("Trying to talk to device xxx but no response, retrying"). Understand you guys deal with this stuff all day long, but I have to dig out the Insteon spec and try to shuffle through it each time.

 

How about just a simple equivalent to a 'ping'? Send a repeated query to a device and show a simple meter control of some sort for query successes over the last n seconds. As I change things I can see (even audible?) whether I am improving or not on that control.

 

I realize that device S/N ratios and such would be better, but my bet is that it isn't going to be the Holy Grail - we will still be fighting bizarre comm problems that refuse to reveal themselves except empirically.

[Michel Kohanim]

ergodic,

 

You convinced me. Sounds good. It shall be done. Priority = medium.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

I think the ISY could still assist with some sort of basic troubleshooting even in the current situation.

 

Some plain-language interpretation of the event log lines would be very helpful ("Trying to talk to device xxx but no response, retrying"). Understand you guys deal with this stuff all day long, but I have to dig out the Insteon spec and try to shuffle through it each time.

 

How about just a simple equivalent to a 'ping'? Send a repeated query to a device and show a simple meter control of some sort for query successes over the last n seconds. As I change things I can see (even audible?) whether I am improving or not on that control.

 

I realize that device S/N ratios and such would be better, but my bet is that it isn't going to be the Holy Grail - we will still be fighting bizarre comm problems that refuse to reveal themselves except empirically.

[dss]

In addition to designating breaker/circuits you could also identify which devices are on the same phase. You could unplug all your signallincs and then the devices that the ISY can still communicate with are all on the same phase as the ISY and those that drop out are on the other phase.

[MikeB]

Keep in mind that may not be 100% accurate. In some instances you may be able to communicate with devices on opposite legs of power if distance to the utility pole is not too far. Also, operation of 220v equipment such as a dryer will couple the legs.

[RatRanch]

In addition to designating breaker/circuits you could also identify which devices are on the same phase. You could unplug all your signallincs and then the devices that the ISY can still communicate with are all on the same phase as the ISY and those that drop out are on the other phase.

 

It's easy to figure out which phase each breaker is on by inspecting the distribution panel. In typical US and Canada installations, for example, 110V breakers are on alternating phases as you go from top to bottom. 220V breakers will have one leg sitting on each phase. See the diagram on your panel or see this Wikipedia article.

 

-Jim

[dss]

Or even if there isn't S/N reporting yet if the ISY could monitor 24/7 the network for errors it would alert you to possible problem devices or problems on a circuit. In this post in the Smarthome forum from jeffw he does that with Powerhome:

 

http://www.smarthome.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6035

Powerhome verifies that every command was successfully executed, and I've programmed it to retry 3-4 times over a period of a few minutes depending on circumstances. If all retries fail, an Email is sent to me. The addition of software-driven retries took me from 95% to 99%+, and with the reporting there are no longer any mysterious failures.

 

Combined error reporting kind of like eventID in Windows and a circuit topography mapping out the devices would be especially valuable for troubleshooting and I would think indispesable for 3rd party installs. If an installer put in an Insteon system and needs to support it and a customer complains that something doesn't work reliably you could remotely connect to the ISY. You'd look at the error log that would be matched to the circuit topography. You could see if errors are on a certain circuit suggesting something on that circuit like a PC power supply, or if only happens only at night perhaps a CFL which is more likely on at night. If only one device on a circuit is having problems it migght suggest a faulty device. It would help the WAF who might know something is flaky but may not be able to tell you which light in particular is acting flaky.

 

Would be nice to have it give you a score on the overall reliability of your system. It could read like 97% reliability if 97% of commands get through on the first try and you could see where the 3% failures are coming from and address them. I don't know how many ISY's are put in 3rd party installs but I could see that if you need to support an installation it would be a nightmare to support if you didn't leave something in place for error monitoring and trouble shooting.