johnmsch Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Received my ISY-99i Controller with PLM yesterday. Got all my INSTEON switches discovered and setup some basic programs for them and all my X10 switches. Tested everything and it all looked good. This morning, I went into the admin console and its showing communication errors on the INSTEON switches. After playing around with them, I ended up deleting them and tried to do the discovery process again. The ISY isn't seeing any of them now. Tried to add a couple of them manually, but still no go. All the X10 switches still work fine. The ISY-99i/PLM is replacing an old 2814U controller. Everything (INSTEON and X10) was working fine with that unit. I upgraded to the ISY mainly for the awesome interface and programmability. I do have a 3-Pin SignaLincâ„¢ Plug-in Coupler-Repeater on my 220v dryer outlet. Any ideas why, after everything worked last night, I can't get the INSTEON switches working again? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 In the ISY's Admin Console, click TOOLS, DIAGNOSTICS, PLM INFO/STATUS and make sure it does not say "Not Connected". If it does, it may indicate a bad PLM - try unplugging the PLM for a couple minutes and try again. If it shows "Connected", do you have any LampLinc / ApplianceLinc modules you can plug right on top of the PLM? If you cannot communicate with a device right on top of the PLM, I would also suspect a bad PLM. Please let us know your results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmsch Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Thanks for the response. It shows connected. I don't have any LampLinc/ApplianceLinc modules. I have a pretty basic setup with 6 insteon switches/dimmers, 5 X10 switches and 2 X10 lamp modules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Definitely seems strange that communications suddenty stopped. Do you have any AccessPoints bridging the power legs in your home? I don't believe the SignaLinc will successfully repeat INSTEON signals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmsch Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 The SignalLinc had been working fine with my old 2814U controller. Could that controller have been sending out a stronger signal than the ISY? But then again, I'm back to the "why did this work last night and not today" question. Also, just remembered that I had set the debug mode to 3 when I was trying to get it to work this morning. Just checked the log and found this sequence when I was trying to add an INSTEON switch at 07.22.47 again: 2009/10/21 10:52:45 : ---- Initializing the linked devices ---- 2009/10/21 10:52:45 : ---- All Linked Devices are now initialized ---- 2009/10/21 10:52:45 : ---- Add remaining devices ---- 2009/10/21 10:52:45 : [ 7 22 47 1] Removing all links 2009/10/21 10:53:07 : [] Failed getting engine version. Reverting to i1. 2009/10/21 10:53:30 : [ 7 22 47 1] ** Not added ** Remove Device Links failed 2009/10/21 10:53:30 : ---- All Remaining Device Added ---- What does the "Remove Device Links failed" mean? Could this be the problem? Thanks again for all the quick responses!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Hi johnmsch, This is indeed strange. What PLM firmware/version do you have (Tools | Diagnostics | PLM Status/Info)? Would you be kind enough to: 1. Unplug your PLM from Power 2. Wait more than 1 minute 3. Plug it back in If this works, then for sure you have a defective PLM. Also, if you have any i2 devices (such as motion sensors, timerlincs, irlinc tx), then SignaLincs would certainly cause A LOT more problem than they solve. I strongly recommend replacing your SignaLincs with Access Points. Please keep us posted. With kind regards, Michel The SignalLinc had been working fine with my old 2814U controller. Could that controller have been sending out a stronger signal than the ISY? But then again, I'm back to the "why did this work last night and not today" question. Also, just remembered that I had set the debug mode to 3 when I was trying to get it to work this morning. Just checked the log and found this sequence when I was trying to add an INSTEON switch at 07.22.47 again: 2009/10/21 10:52:45 : ---- Initializing the linked devices ---- 2009/10/21 10:52:45 : ---- All Linked Devices are now initialized ---- 2009/10/21 10:52:45 : ---- Add remaining devices ---- 2009/10/21 10:52:45 : [ 7 22 47 1] Removing all links 2009/10/21 10:53:07 : [] Failed getting engine version. Reverting to i1. 2009/10/21 10:53:30 : [ 7 22 47 1] ** Not added ** Remove Device Links failed 2009/10/21 10:53:30 : ---- All Remaining Device Added ---- What does the "Remove Device Links failed" mean? Could this be the problem? Thanks again for all the quick responses!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmsch Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Looks like the PLM version is v85. Unplugged the PLM and let it sit for about 5 minutes. Plugged it back in, waited a couple of minutes, then tried adding a couple of Insteon switches again, both through the use of "StartLinking" and manually. Still no go with the Insteons, but the X10 switches still work fine. I don't have any i2 devices. Just Insteon on/off switches and dimmers, and X10 switches. Did the event log I posted above give you any clues as to the problem? Can you tell from that if the ISY/PLM is even seeing the Insteons? Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Hello again, The event log simply shows that the PLM is not receiving any responses back from the devices. Would you please: 1. Go to Event Viewer / Level 3 2. Turn on/off any of your devices either physically or from the Admin Console Also, is the PLM plugged into the same outlet as you had your other PLM hooked up? With kind regards, Michel Looks like the PLM version is v85. Unplugged the PLM and let it sit for about 5 minutes. Plugged it back in, waited a couple of minutes, then tried adding a couple of Insteon switches again, both through the use of "StartLinking" and manually. Still no go with the Insteons, but the X10 switches still work fine. I don't have any i2 devices. Just Insteon on/off switches and dimmers, and X10 switches. Did the event log I posted above give you any clues as to the problem? Can you tell from that if the ISY/PLM is even seeing the Insteons? Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmsch Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Ok, I opened Event Viewer and set debug back to level 3. Turned off an Insteon switch that was on: 2009/10/21 16:58:50 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 07.22.47 00.00.01 C7 13 00 LTOFFRR(00) 2009/10/21 16:58:51 : [standard-Group][07.22.47-->Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 2009/10/21 16:58:52 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 07.22.47 12.9F.BC 41 13 01 LTOFFRR(01) 2009/10/21 16:58:53 : [standard-Cleanup][07.22.47-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 2009/10/21 16:58:53 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 07.22.47 12.9F.BC 42 13 01 LTOFFRR(01) 2009/10/21 16:58:53 : [standard-Cleanup][07.22.47-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=2, Hops Left=0 2009/10/21 16:58:53 : Duplicate: ignored 2009/10/21 16:58:53 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 07.22.47 12.9F.BC 47 13 01 LTOFFRR(01) 2009/10/21 16:58:53 : [standard-Cleanup][07.22.47-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 2009/10/21 16:58:53 : Duplicate: ignored 2009/10/21 16:58:54 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 07.22.47 12.9F.BC 47 13 01 LTOFFRR(01) 2009/10/21 16:58:54 : [standard-Cleanup][07.22.47-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 2009/10/21 16:58:54 : Duplicate: ignored Then turned that switch back on: 2009/10/21 16:59:18 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 07.22.47 00.00.01 C7 11 00 LTONRR (00) 2009/10/21 16:59:19 : [standard-Group][07.22.47-->Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 2009/10/21 16:59:20 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 07.22.47 12.9F.BC 41 11 01 LTONRR (01) 2009/10/21 16:59:21 : [standard-Cleanup][07.22.47-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 2009/10/21 16:59:21 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 07.22.47 12.9F.BC 42 11 01 LTONRR (01) 2009/10/21 16:59:21 : [standard-Cleanup][07.22.47-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=2, Hops Left=0 2009/10/21 16:59:21 : Duplicate: ignored 2009/10/21 16:59:21 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 07.22.47 12.9F.BC 47 11 01 LTONRR (01) 2009/10/21 16:59:21 : [standard-Cleanup][07.22.47-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 2009/10/21 16:59:21 : Duplicate: ignored 2009/10/21 16:59:21 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 07.22.47 12.9F.BC 47 11 01 LTONRR (01) 2009/10/21 16:59:22 : [standard-Cleanup][07.22.47-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 2009/10/21 16:59:22 : Duplicate: ignored 2009/10/21 16:59:22 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 07.22.47 12.9F.BC 47 11 01 LTONRR (01) 2009/10/21 16:59:22 : [standard-Cleanup][07.22.47-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 2009/10/21 16:59:22 : Duplicate: ignored This keeps getting stranger and stranger. Looks to me like the ISY/PLM can hear from the switch, but still won't let me add it. Any clue what's going on? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmsch Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Oh, also, the new PLM is not plugged into the same outlet as the old controller. I'll move it and try everything again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Hi, How about trying to control a device from the Admin Console? With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmsch Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 I can control the X10s from the admin console just fine, but how do I control an Insteon switch from the console when it won't let me add it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Hello again, Please try one of those that have already been added and specifically the one for which you sent us the event viewer entries. With kind regards, Michel I can control the X10s from the admin console just fine, but how do I control an Insteon switch from the console when it won't let me add it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmsch Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 The plot thickens... I had manually removed the two devices during my troubleshooting this morning, and can't add them back. Just tried moving the ISY/PLM to the same socket I used for the old 2814U. Had to use a longer CAT5 cable to reach my router. I used a 100 foot cable, where the ISY came with a 3 foot cable. Plugged everything in and went to my pc to log into the unit. I entered the address and it timed out. Went back to the ISY and the Mem and Error lights are blinking. The PWR light is on steadily, but the Mem and Error lights come on for two seconds, then go off for 5 seconds, then repeat the sequence continuously. I tried a hard reset of the ISY, but those two lights keep repeating the sequence. I've checked the manual and WIKI but can't find anything about error codes regarding the lights. Is my ISY hosed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Hi johnmsch, No, your ISY is not hosed. The lights indicate that ISY cannot get on the network. So, in all likelihood, the 100ft cable is a little long for the communications between your router and ISY. Or, perhaps the cable is defective. With kind regards, Michel The plot thickens... I had manually removed the two devices during my troubleshooting this morning, and can't add them back. Just tried moving the ISY/PLM to the same socket I used for the old 2814U. Had to use a longer CAT5 cable to reach my router. I used a 100 foot cable, where the ISY came with a 3 foot cable. Plugged everything in and went to my pc to log into the unit. I entered the address and it timed out. Went back to the ISY and the Mem and Error lights are blinking. The PWR light is on steadily, but the Mem and Error lights come on for two seconds, then go off for 5 seconds, then repeat the sequence continuously. I tried a hard reset of the ISY, but those two lights keep repeating the sequence. I've checked the manual and WIKI but can't find anything about error codes regarding the lights. Is my ISY hosed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmsch Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Just moved the ISY and PLM back to where they were, using the original 3 foot cables. Plugged in the PLM and within a couple of seconds, the Mem and Error lights started the same sequence again (2 seconds on, 5 seconds off). Did a hard reset of the ISY, but the same two lights are doing the same sequence. What now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmsch Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Found part of the problem. Looks like I have a bad port on my router. Plugged the cable into another port, and I'm back in the admin console. So, I continued the experiment by plugging the PLM into the same socket that the 2814U used, then the 100 foot cable from the ISY to the router. Got in the admin console and hit the Start Linking button. Got two of the Insteon switches linked. Had to go back into the programs referencing them and add them back as valid devices. So, for now, everything looks OK, except for that 100 foot cable running across my great room and into the hall. I'm going to run a network cable from that router to another outlet which sits next to my breaker panel in the basement. Probably won't get to that for a day or two. Now I'll keep my fingers crossed that in the morning I don't see any of those communications errors that greeted me this morning. Michel, I can't thank you enough for your patience with me and all of your help. You 'da man!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Hi johnmsch, My pleasure and I am glad that part of the problem has been solved. In my opinion, though, I do not really think that this should be the ultimate configuration. In 99.9999% of the cases, you can always find an outlet closer to the router and using Access Points to bridge the phases. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmsch Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 Michel, Can you recommend a specific "Access Point"? As I mentioned previously, the coupler-repeater (4826B) worked fine with my old 2814U, so I'm confused as to why the ISY, a newer more advanced technology, would need any additonal hardware. Again, thank you so very much for the attention you have given me today. You guys and Smarthome really do care about making all this magic work! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Can you recommend a specific "Access Point"? As I mentioned previously, the coupler-repeater (4826B) worked fine with my old 2814U, so I'm confused as to why the ISY, a newer more advanced technology, would need any additonal hardware. If I understand correctly, a 2814U is an X10 device. It worked fine with your 4826B X10 powerline bridge and your old X10 devices, correct? The culprit here is not the ISY, but your INSTEON 2412S PLM and the INSTEON devices you are trying to communicate with. The 4826B is an X10 powerline bridge and does NOT bridge INSTEON signals between your power legs (at least not based on the specs). Unfortunately, Smarthome does not make a dryer outlet coupler for INSTEON. They offer 2 choices to bridge your power legs with INSTEON: 1 - A pair of AccessPoints: http://www.smarthome.com/2443P/Access-P ... ack/p.aspx 2 - A hardwired coupler: http://www.smarthome.com/2406H/SignaLin ... red/p.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 The 4826B is an X10 Only Repeater Phase Coupler. The 2814U is the Icon version of the Insteon PLC Was sold as the 'PC Timer System'. With the free Timer Software. Used SDM3 just like the 2414U and 2414S PLCs. Mine has the 2.12 [2C] firmware in it. Do you have any of the older 2442 SignaLinc RF; newer 2443 Access Point or 2406H passive coupler in your system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmsch Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 Can you recommend a specific "Access Point"? As I mentioned previously, the coupler-repeater (4826B) worked fine with my old 2814U, so I'm confused as to why the ISY, a newer more advanced technology, would need any additional hardware. If I understand correctly, a 2814U is an X10 device. It worked fine with your 4826B X10 powerline bridge and your old X10 devices, correct? Yes, but it also controls Insteon switches. Although I occasionally had problems with it not turning something on or off on schedule, its been pretty reliable. But the interface is very crude, and you have to run a USB cable from it to a PC to make any programming changes. This is why I'm so excited about using the ISY. The culprit here is not the ISY, but your INSTEON 2412S PLM and the INSTEON devices you are trying to communicate with. The 4826B is an X10 powerline bridge and does NOT bridge INSTEON signals between your power legs (at least not based on the specs). I was under the impression that the 4826B passed along signals from one leg to the other regardless of it being X10 or Insteon. As I mentioned previously, it was working fine with the old controller. But, I may have just lucked out with the Insteons being on the same leg as that controller. Unfortunately, Smarthome does not make a dryer outlet coupler for INSTEON. They offer 2 choices to bridge your power legs with INSTEON: 1 - A pair of AccessPoints: http://www.smarthome.com/2443P/Access-P ... ack/p.aspx 2 - A hardwired coupler: http://www.smarthome.com/2406H/SignaLin ... red/p.aspx I may go with the hardwired coupler, just to rule out any more flaky issues. Thanks for the reply! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xathros Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Just a few thoughts here: Is your PLM plugged into the same circuit as your computer equipment ? Do you have a filterlinc on the computer stuff ? Could be noise preventing it from hearing responses. Is the PLM plugged into any kind of surge suppressor ? Surge suppressors can filter out / block the necessary signals. Make sure the PLM is direct to the AC line without any power strips in between. HTH -X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmsch Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 The 4826B is an X10 Only Repeater Phase Coupler. The 2814U is the Icon version of the Insteon PLC Was sold as the 'PC Timer System'. With the free Timer Software. Used SDM3 just like the 2414U and 2414S PLCs. Mine has the 2.12 [2C] firmware in it. Do you have any of the older 2442 SignaLinc RF; newer 2443 Access Point or 2406H passive coupler in your system? Now I'm really curious as to how the 2814U was able to control my Insteon switches, if indeed the 4826B does not repeat Insteon signals from one leg to the other. Maybe I just lucked out and the Insteons are on the same leg as the controller. I don't have any of the 3 items you mention, but am ordering the 2406H today. Then I can ditch the 4826B and not have to worry about it. Thanks again to everyone who has responded. Great group of people here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmsch Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 Update: Went into the admin console this morning and everything looks good. I'm hoping that the comm errors from yesterday were just a fluke. Also, I'm ordering the 2406H today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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