Michel Kohanim Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 @grtaylor, does the status of the device change in the Alexa App AND is the device configured as a motion sensor? Please peruse this article: https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY_Portal_Amazon_Echo_Integration_V3#ISY_Can_Talk_To_You.21_.28Alexa_Routines.29 With kind regards, Michel Link to comment
grtaylor Posted November 16, 2020 Author Share Posted November 16, 2020 I have followed that article to the best of my abilities and think I have done it correctly. I ultimately want to use an ISY variable, triggered by a program, not an Elk motion sensor, I'm just using that to test and make it easier so I don't have to keep triggering a program. So right now, an Elk motion triggers an ISY program, which sets the variable. That variable is set up as a motion sensor in Alexa. I have confirmed/done everything listed on the FAQ page under "I can create a routine, but it does not get triggered" So yes, I see the device change in the Alexa app, and the device has been both a motion sensor and a contact sensor. Both show as triggering when the variable changes. But neither cause the Alex routine to fire. 1 Link to comment
BOden Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Ahhhh, I did not set a var state to a "wait" time before returning to initial state. I mean that seems legit because it could fire every few seconds in some conditions. I do believe the reset state in the sensor II is shorter than 30 sec. I'll set a wait time of 60 sec or more and report back. Link to comment
tmorse305 Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 (edited) From what you have described it seems like it's a problem on the Alexa side. I use multiple routines like this and they are working. Here are screen shots of one of mine. I suspect they are the same as what you're seeing but worth a shot since nothing seems to be helping. Does the device have a unique name? Any other devices close in their name? I've had problems with that in the past with Alexa getting confused with similar (but different) names. There was other gotcha that I ran into. I had a variable defined as 0=no motion and 2=motion. In the course of the ISY programs running the variable was briefly set to 1. When that happened the portal communicated "no motion" to Alexa and started the 30 second debounce so my routine never worked. Just make sure the variable changes one time and held for 30 seconds (which it sound like you are already aware of) Edited November 16, 2020 by tmorse305 1 Link to comment
larryllix Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 2 hours ago, BOden said: Ahhhh, I did not set a var state to a "wait" time before returning to initial state. I mean that seems legit because it could fire every few seconds in some conditions. I do believe the reset state in the sensor II is shorter than 30 sec. I'll set a wait time of 60 sec or more and report back. I use 30 seconds just as a reminder to not ever trigger another notification in less than 30 seconds. Alexa will just ignore any signals it receievs before a 30 second time out. It doesn't have to be the same signal to be ignored....any. The other point is...have you tested your routine to see if it works...like the speaker is in another room or volume turned down or disconnected from your WiFi? 1 Link to comment
grtaylor Posted November 16, 2020 Author Share Posted November 16, 2020 (edited) I just checked, and I built a 31 second delay into mine in ISY. When the Elk motion sensor is violated set variable Alexa to 1. This is the variable that Alexa sees as a motion device. Then I have another program - if Alexa variable = 1 wait 31 seconds and then set back to 0. Edited November 16, 2020 by grtaylor Link to comment
tmorse305 Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 This must be a problem on the Alexa end of things. @BOden talked about a failed attempt to rectify it with Alexa support so that doesn't sound encouraging. It's strange it works for some but not for others. Are your screens the same as mine, at least structurally? No obvious differences? I meant to include one more previously. Link to comment
grtaylor Posted November 17, 2020 Author Share Posted November 17, 2020 Mine looks just the same. I re-opened the device page, and it shows no motion since I was playing with this earlier today. It only reports that has detected motion when the app is running and ISY sets the variable. It was just triggered, it just updated. Makes me wonder though - If you don't have the Alexa app running, something triggers your variable, and then you re-open the Alex app - is the 'Inactive since' correct? When I open the app it only reports the last time there was motion zand when the Alexa app was open, not the last time there was motion, if you get what I mean? Link to comment
tmorse305 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 I killed the Alexa app, triggered the motion variable at 8:20. Waited until 8:25 and then opened the app. Inactive since 8:25... Looks like there is a bug in that calculation. Link to comment
larryllix Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, grtaylor said: I just checked, and I built a 31 second delay into mine in ISY. When the Elk motion sensor is violated set variable Alexa to 1. This is the variable that Alexa sees as a motion device. Then I have another program - if Alexa variable = 1 wait 31 seconds and then set back to 0. I just use one program that sets the variable to 1, Wait 30 seconds, set variable to 0. I was thinking of designing a stacking program so that variables would be set to 1 and cleared again in order so that no notification would ever be missed. It would be nice if ISY had indexed variable access or variable numbered access (arrays?) to make this easier. Edited November 17, 2020 by larryllix 1 Link to comment
BOden Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Update.. First off; huge shout out to Michel for quickly responding to my ticket this morning (ISY is back up and running)! Here's what happened to me. My configuration had some issues so I took it all back to factory (I don't know if it was related to the issue here). I loaded the Sensor II, set the variable state but I decided to skip the "wait" in the program and went straight to the device and changed the hold time to 31 sec like Larry said. It works now. Thanks guys! 1 Link to comment
tmorse305 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 So just to be clear, resetting your ISY solved the problem with Alexa routines not firing? Link to comment
larryllix Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, tmorse305 said: So just to be clear, resetting your ISY solved the problem with Alexa routines not firing? I read the fix as: too short of a trigger signal On time. 30 seconds fixed it. "My configuration had some issues so I took it all back to factory (I don't know if it was related to the issue here)." You didn't flag @BOden to get his attention. Edited November 18, 2020 by larryllix 1 Link to comment
grtaylor Posted November 18, 2020 Author Share Posted November 18, 2020 I didn't read it as that, or rather, I doubt that's my issue as my motion sensor variable already has a wait of 31 seconds. A factory reset of ISY to solve this sounds a bit .... 2 Link to comment
larryllix Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 @bmercier I have just found all my Alexa pseudo MS routines responding to "MS not detected" values instead of "MS detected" values in the state variables. This has been working for several years as "MS detected" but suddenly all 20 routines changed. I have made temporary changes in my critical Alexa routines to detect" NO MOTION" to trigger my routines until this can be stabilised. I strongly suspect this has been a change in the reporting from ISY Portal for pseudo MS devices. Can you please verify the ISY portal MS sending logic to Alexa has not been reversed recently (last day or two) before I open a ticket with amazon? (typically useless) Thanks Benoit!! 1 Link to comment
BOden Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 (edited) Sorry, guys I'm really not sure if taking to factory had anything to do it now working, it might just be coincidence as I never got to check the wait time Larry suggested before I had a bigger issue to deal with. Could have been one, the other or both, but my sensor II was initially set for a 15 or 20 sec hold time before I changed it to 31 sec. Unfortunately, I'm not comfortable suggesting factory reset to solve the issue. This is the first time I'm hearing of hold time. It sounds like you're sure the hold time is longer than 30 sec and to be honest I don't know why it would make a difference on the first routine firing as the Alexa response is reporting within a few seconds. I could understand the second request for a routine within 30 sec, but I don't know how those (magic) part works. I'm sorry, I wish I had more information. I'm seriously new to this form (love it) how do I tag someone? Edited November 18, 2020 by BOden Link to comment
larryllix Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, BOden said: Sorry, guys I'm really not sure if taking to factory had anything to do it now working, it might just be coincidence as I never got to check the wait time Larry suggested before I had a bigger issue to deal with. Could have been one, the other or both, but my sensor II was initially set for a 15 or 20 sec hold time before I changed it to 31 sec. Unfortunately, I'm not comfortable suggesting factory reset to solve the issue. This is the first time I'm hearing of hold time. It sounds like you're sure the hold time is longer than 30 sec and to be honest I don't know why it would make a difference on the first routine firing as the Alexa response is reporting within a few seconds. I could understand the second request for a routine within 30 sec, but I don't know how those (magic) part works. I'm sorry, I wish I had more information. I'm seriously new to this form (love it) how do I tag someone? to tag somebody you "quote" them or type an '@' followed by their name. Now you have to select the name from the auto-filled in fall down menu or it doesn;t happen. You will know by the coloured box around the text like this @BOden I have found to trigger a routine you only need a few seconds to hold the trigger flag on but Alexa will not allow faster than 30 second repeats of the action in order to eliminate DOS attacks and nuisance channel crowding. Right now I have just found all my routines triggering after the pseudo MS signal has released (no motion) and my routines stopped functioning without the 30 second delay. This makes my routine trigger arbitration program broken for the time being. Edited November 18, 2020 by larryllix 1 Link to comment
BOden Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 @larryllix, thanks for the "how to" on the tag and wait time! Yeah saw your comment. Sounds like some tinkering going on in the background. That's really crazy that suddenly your variables trigger off false! I wonder if something they did finally connected mine? Now I've gone cross eyed.... ? 1 Link to comment
tmorse305 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, larryllix said: @bmercier I have just found all my Alexa pseudo MS routines responding to "MS not detected" values instead of "MS detected" values in the state variables. This has been working for several years as "MS detected" but suddenly all 20 routines changed. I have made temporary changes in my critical Alexa routines to detect" NO MOTION" to trigger my routines until this can be stabilised. I strongly suspect this has been a change in the reporting from ISY Portal for pseudo MS devices. Can you please verify the ISY portal MS sending logic to Alexa has not been reversed recently (last day or two) before I open a ticket with amazon? (typically useless) Thanks Benoit!! I just tried my routines and they seem to be working as they always have. Just to be clear you are talking about Alexa routines triggering on the not detected value of the variable instead of the detected value? Edited November 18, 2020 by tmorse305 Link to comment
tmorse305 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 1 hour ago, BOden said: Sorry, guys I'm really not sure if taking to factory had anything to do it now working, it might just be coincidence as I never got to check the wait time Larry suggested before I had a bigger issue to deal with. Could have been one, the other or both, but my sensor II was initially set for a 15 or 20 sec hold time before I changed it to 31 sec. Unfortunately, I'm not comfortable suggesting factory reset to solve the issue. This is the first time I'm hearing of hold time. It sounds like you're sure the hold time is longer than 30 sec and to be honest I don't know why it would make a difference on the first routine firing as the Alexa response is reporting within a few seconds. I could understand the second request for a routine within 30 sec, but I don't know how those (magic) part works. I'm sorry, I wish I had more information. I'm seriously new to this form (love it) how do I tag someone? You're right, on the first trigger you don't need to hold the variable for 30 seconds as Alexa responds quickly. If you were holding the variable for 15-20 seconds it should have worked the first time. So the question is before your ISY reset did the trigger work the first time?? If it didn't that could be an important clue in trying to figure this problem out. Maybe your ISY reset did have an affect. It seems crazy that it would or could but with the crazy behavior @larryllix just reported there is something strange happening. What version of ISY are you running? I haven't upgraded from 5.2.0 yet and I'm not seeing any of these problems being reported. 1 Link to comment
grtaylor Posted November 18, 2020 Author Share Posted November 18, 2020 I'm on 4.7.3. 1 Link to comment
BOden Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 @tmorse305, @grtaylor, I'm on version 5.3.0. I think I read you need 5.?.? something to connect to Alexa but TRULY..... I'm not solid on that and probably shouldn't start rumors lol. An admin tech would probably set us right on that. I've read so many different version things lately on so many projects I could be overlapping info! If someone could let us know that would rock!! But before I muddy those waters more than I think I might have already.... Let me explain what happened to me and why I don't want to jump into telling anyone to factory the PLM or ISY, *After joining this thread I tried again to fire routines and failed. Prayed over it like a .... and it didn't work. * @larryllix suggested I set a var state hold time of 30+ seconds. But.... I had just started an updated from "5.0.somthing" *updated to 5.3.0 *When I did the update, I wanted to check to make sure I was running the latest admin console software. so I googled "universal devices admin" and selected the link. *the link was a direct download of an "admin" console at the universal site. That was a different console look and had sliders, so I figured it was an updated version!? This is where my nightmare started! hahaha *I developed some kind of overlap in java and started getting failures in the admin load screens. it was like I had two competing versions. My bad!! I didn't clear the java, but the sliders version gave me problems even after I did. *In my frustration, and I kinda like to wipe the slate when I have major problems and narrow the possibility's. *I got up and running again with the original admin console (without the "sliders" ) and new firmware and set the time on the "device hold time to 31 sec" as @larryllix suggested. * it worked! Unfortunately, I can't say what worked definitively. One the other or both, I just don't know. I'd update the firmware for sure though! I'm sorry I didn't have time to test the "hold" time before the update and factory reset. I know this is frustrating, trust me ... I'll attach the two different admin screen shots I had just for.... I don't know, I guess things to avoid. Please don't factory without an admin tech chiming in but if you do I understand where you are at!! I don't want to steer people in the direction of unnecessary work. I only have a couple of devices so it wasn't really a big deal. Link to comment
BOden Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) Short answer.... I did not have a chance to check the hold (wait) time before the factory reset. I'd update firmware and check the hold. Edited November 19, 2020 by BOden Because I like to mix it up?! Link to comment
larryllix Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, tmorse305 said: I just tried my routines and they seem to be working as they always have. Just to be clear you are talking about Alexa routines triggering on the not detected value of the variable instead of the detected value? Correct! They have been working on "detected" for a few years now. Suddenly they are triggering on the "Not detected" or when I release the variable to 0 again. Last two years about 20 routines set up like this: Var = 1 = ISY Portal pseudo MS = Motion = Routine trigger on Detected= say "whatever has happened" Now Var = 1 = ISY Portal pseudo MS = Motion = Routine trigger on Not Detected = say "whatever has happened" I was being fooled by the 30 second Wait timer for var = 0 but wondering why the vocal was being delayed 30 seconds and sometimes not coming through at all for the last few days. Edited November 19, 2020 by larryllix Link to comment
tmorse305 Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 @larryllix, that is bizarre. I created a test program on ISY today to play with this: If - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition') Then $sMS_Test_1 = 1 Wait 30 seconds $sMS_Test_1 = 0 Wait 30 seconds $sMS_Test_1 = 1 Wait 30 seconds $sMS_Test_1 = 0 I get two reports from Alexa repeatedly, when the variable is set to 1. I played around with the wait times to see if I could get it to ever trip on the variable setting to 0 but no luck. If I reduce the middle wait to 1 second then I can create the appearance of the trigger on the set to 0 but it's obviously just delayed from the previous set to 1. Hopefully Benoit can shed some light on this for you. Link to comment
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