Gate open/close sensor for outdoor use

[Jimini]

I see that there are Insteon 2421 and 2843 units to monitor garage doors and barn doors.  Has anyone found one that can be mounted on an outside gate to monitor whether the gate is open or closed?  I want to be able to tie this into my ISY system.

 

[MrBill]

I have a wood fence, I mounted the 2843 to the underside of the top fence rail, and then used  this external alarm contact rather the the included magnet.  Same thing on my standard mail box buy the road--I stuck the 2843 to the bottom of the mailbox, extended the leads of the same alarm contact using silicon filled crimped butt splices.  Ran the wore out an existing hole on the bottom of the mailbox and hooked it up to the 2843.  (first try was putting the 2843 inside the mail box but the metal can cut the range down too much.  

I have 3 outdoor 2843 mounting locations that are rain shielded but not weather proof. All 3 have been there for 4 years now with no issues.  Every time I change a battery I look for signs of water or humidity damage, or water inside the cover, so far not a trace.

[larryllix]

That's the @MrBillgates solution.

Many have used CAO Wireless Tags for gates, doors and mailboxes. They need to be protected from direct rain and water but can give you temperature, humidity, and lux as well in a compact unit.

[Jimini]

Thank you both, MrBill and larryllix, for you good suggestions.  I will have to investigate both.  It has been suggested to me, possibly by you larryllix, to look at the CAO tags for a better temperature sensor than what I am using now.  This must be an amazing device if it could also be used for sensing an open/close status.  I have been procrastinating that investigation because it involves also a polyglot at the same time.  But I will need to find the time for this.

Thanks again to both of you.

[Bumbershoot]

23 hours ago, Jimini said:

I have been procrastinating that investigation because it involves also a polyglot at the same time.

No need for Polyglot at all if you're interested in updating variables in your ISY with CAO Wireless Tags -- kumoapps and custom URL calling will fill the bill.  Not as nifty as running a nodeserver, but it'll allow you to make use of your tags.  Poke around in this forum for examples of how to accomplish either/both.

 

[mwester]

Mr. Bumbershoot is exactly right -- just set up the custom URL calling feature, and have your tag manager update a variable in the ISY.

I got rid of the node server, and went back to that approach -- it's simpler all around, and in the end, while it might sound daunting, it's proven to be less work than installing, configuring, and managing a polyglot instance just for CAO tags.

[larryllix]

4 hours ago, Bumbershoot said:

No need for Polyglot at all if you're interested in updating variables in your ISY with CAO Wireless Tags -- kumoapps and custom URL calling will fill the bill.  Not as nifty as running a nodeserver, but it'll allow you to make use of your tags.  Poke around in this forum for examples of how to accomplish either/both.

 

...and one less equipment node for the signal path to depend on.

[Jimini]

I am finally able to free some time for learning how to use these CAO Tags.  

As suggested by larryllix, I’ve been poking around for forum entries related to Kumoapps and Custom URL Calling as well as websites for the CAO Tags themselves, but I find that I am missing a few important pieces of information or perhaps I have a misunderstanding about a few important pieces of information.  It would be extremely helpful if someone could short circuit my rather random search and point me in the correct direction.  My goal is to incorporate the reading of several CAO tags into my ISY programs to first just report the data but ultimately to create some actions based upon that data. 

To get started, I think I need to purchase at least one temperature reading Tag and one open/close Tag as well as a Tag Manager, but I have not found any description of what this manager does or how it must be programmed. 

My limited understanding is that once everything is configured, the Tag reports will be inserted into ISY variables, some of which are state variables such that they trigger an ISY program to start.  Is this correct?

I have seen a few versions of these Kumoapps, which appear to perform the configuration, assigning Tags to ISY variables.  But I don’t understand where this Kumoapp is executed.  Is this Kumoapp code part of something called a REST interface?  I found a page or so with details of this REST in the ISY Twiki, but there is no explanation of what it is or how it works for a beginner. 

Any help to get started will be appreciated.

[larryllix]

I know of two ways to use these tags

Using Kumapps code as posted in this thread. This will dump parameters into state variables each time period set in setup page for each tag. For instantaneous events I use the URL triggering events as setup under each tag in the same windows app.

 

The other method would be to use @Jimbo's node server with a RPi or a polisy box, either way running polyglot with the Tag NS installed.

 

[Jimini]

Thank you for the reply larryllix.  I have looked at your code for the KumoApp, but I need to educate myself about some very basic terms and concepts.  I don't know what the ISY REST Injection is.  It appears that the Java code of the KumoApp is something that needs to be run on a computer connected to the same network as my ISY.  Is that correct?  There code references objects like "KumoApp. " which I assume reside in some library.  Where do I find that?  I just now found a page titled: "ISY Developers:Java Web Services Tutorial".  It refers to various licenses.  Apparently, I need to pick one and have access to it.  Sorry, but all this is new territory for me, which I have not encountered as yet with my ISY programming up to now.  

[larryllix]

A rest interface is one where you can specify the IP address, username:password, element type, address, and value in a single URL.. In ISY you can run a program, run a scene, device, variable value, or interrogate anything and get a response. They should both be on the same network but do not have to be. Trouble with that is you open your ISY up to hackers.

Look in the ISY wiki for REST interface for more information on it's powerful i/f options.

The KumoApp code is run on CAO's cloud service or inside the Tag Manager box on your LAN. NO computer is required.  I know a cloud connection is necessary for the Tag manager to work, but not exactly sure where it runs. The REST variable injections are sent from your Tag Manager on your LAN, locally.

I could never seem to get my KumoApp code on their library and you would have to cut and paste the code into your own kumoapp code page. Of course you would have to set up your state variables in ISY and then modify the tag names and variable number reservations so it writes to the proper places.

Edited February 17, 2021 by larryllix

[Jimini]

Thank you very much.  Just a simple explanation that the KumoApp code runs in the CAO cloud or inside the Tag Manager clears up one mystery.  That may have been obvious but I saw no mention of that anywhere.  I did read at least one entry in the ISY Wiki about the REST Interface.  It included details of commands, etc. but no overview of how it works.  I will re-read.  Knowing now that the setup to ISY is coming from the Tag Manager may make a second read more clear.  

I don't understand your last comment that you have not been able to get your KumoApp code on their library.  Do you mean that you could not get your code added to their library?  My main question about KumoApp was the references I saw in your code, such as "KumoApp.setInterval(pulse, 90000)", which appears to reference some routines in a KumoApp library.  But now that I understand that all your code gets put into their cloud or their Tag Manager, perhaps that gives you access to that library.  I will have to see what documentation is included with the Tag Manger that I just ordered. 

Thanks Again.

 

[larryllix]

4 hours ago, Jimini said:

Thank you very much.  Just a simple explanation that the KumoApp code runs in the CAO cloud or inside the Tag Manager clears up one mystery.  That may have been obvious but I saw no mention of that anywhere.  I did read at least one entry in the ISY Wiki about the REST Interface.  It included details of commands, etc. but no overview of how it works.  I will re-read.  Knowing now that the setup to ISY is coming from the Tag Manager may make a second read more clear.  

I don't understand your last comment that you have not been able to get your KumoApp code on their library.  Do you mean that you could not get your code added to their library?  My main question about KumoApp was the references I saw in your code, such as "KumoApp.setInterval(pulse, 90000)", which appears to reference some routines in a KumoApp library.  But now that I understand that all your code gets put into their cloud or their Tag Manager, perhaps that gives you access to that library.  I will have to see what documentation is included with the Tag Manger that I just ordered. 

Thanks Again.

 

Was a long time ago and I am not familiar with js much, but IIRC the line
"KumoApp.setInterval(pulse, 90000)" is a standard js function to set a repetitive timed function. IIRC, I used that to toggle a watchdog variable that toggles a variable in ISY serving as a watchdog. It doesn't function well because when a Tag spews out garbage and the Kumapp code crashes the watchdog function just keeps on chugging away anyway. **SIGH** . I need to install a "try" "else" structure around the whole thing to create a self rebooting recovery. Getting old and don't absorb new languages well anymore.   Sweating with python3 now and that never stops changing faster than I can remember any of the secrets so hidden in the cloud. No...another book on python3 won't help the already 78 ones I have now.

[Jimini]

Thanks for the warning about needing a better watchdog.  I'll look at that once I get something running.  

The specific line of code I referenced was just to show an example of this "KumoApp.xxxx".  This looks to be referencing something in a KumoApp library.  Does that get resolved automatically once the code is uploaded to the cloud or to the Tag Manger?  

I appreciate your issue with new languages.  I spent years with Assembly Code, Fortran, then Pascal, C and C++.  ISY and now these CAO tags are my new language adventures at present.  

[larryllix]

6 hours ago, Jimini said:

Thanks for the warning about needing a better watchdog.  I'll look at that once I get something running.  

The specific line of code I referenced was just to show an example of this "KumoApp.xxxx".  This looks to be referencing something in a KumoApp library.  Does that get resolved automatically once the code is uploaded to the cloud or to the Tag Manger?  

I appreciate your issue with new languages.  I spent years with Assembly Code, Fortran, then Pascal, C and C++.  ISY and now these CAO tags are my new language adventures at present.  

I don't quite understand what you are asking. I guess these functions are inside the KumoApps library. It seems they have developed their own js compiler/interpreter. The functions are listed in their help webages inside the Tag administration webpage.

The KumoApp.setInterval(pulse, 9000) line runs the function "piuse" every 90000 millseconds

/* Heartbeats sent to ISY - User to replace 45000 (next line) to desired period in milliSeconds. Recommend 30,000 - 60,000 mSec. */
KumoApp.setInterval(pulse, 90000);
pulse(); /* start out with fresh heartbeat pulse */

function pulse() {
    if ($last_heartbeat == +1) {
        $last_heartbeat = -1;
        KumoApp.Log("Heartbeat to ISY(" + isy_variable_heartbeat + ") updated to " + $last_heartbeat);
        KumoApp.httpCall(isy_RESTcall+isy_variable_heartbeat + "/" + $last_heartbeat, "GET");
    } else {
        $last_heartbeat = +1;
        KumoApp.Log("Heartbeat to ISY(" + isy_variable_heartbeat + ") updated to " + $last_heartbeat);
        KumoApp.httpCall(isy_RESTcall+isy_variable_heartbeat + "/" + $last_heartbeat, "GET");
    };
}

 

[DennisC]

Do you have Polish or a RPI running Polyglot? If so, you can utilize the Nodeserver. I think the Nodeserver simplifies adding the CAO Wireless Tags to the ISY.

Edited February 18, 2021 by DennisC
Spelling

[Jimini]

I have not yet expanded my ISY system to include anything running a Polyglot.  As I don't yet have any other use for that, this method making use of variable substitution via the KumoApp looked like a way to make use of the CAO Tags without that extra hardware.  For a while, that appeared to have possibly been a bad tradeoff of time vs. merchandise, but things are starting to make some sense to me now.  

I have four Tags and a Tag Manager on order now.  When they arrive, I'll start to work on the implementation to see if this was a good direction to go or not.  

[MrBill]

1 hour ago, DennisC said:

Do you have Polish or a RPI running Polyglot? If so, you can utilize the Nodeserver. I think the Nodeserver simplifies adding the CAO Wireless Tags to the ISY.

I agree with Dennis.... the nodeserver is better and faster than kumoapps.  I used the kumoapp method for several years before polisy.  I resisted running polyglot on a raspberry pi because I didn't want to become a server administrator again (keeping up with OS security patches).   Anyway since moving over to the nodeserver running on polisy I've been much happier.  Far less to troubleshoot on a regular basis, more info available from the tags than you pick and choose with the other method.  Largely the nodeserver is fairly turnkey, kumoapps are not.

[dbuss]

1 hour ago, Jimini said:

As I don't yet have any other use for that,

You will be amazed how many other uses you will find for node servers with Polisy once you have it.

[Jimini]

There certainly seems to be two different perspectives on which is the "easier" method to implement these CAO tags.  larryllix has has been very forthcoming with information about the KumoApp method.  If you can point me to information on where to get started implementing the polisy method, I would like to take a look at what would be involved there.  But I will need to understand the nearly turnkey implantation of the polisy.  

My experience in this world of ISY and now CAO Tags is that it's all easy once you understand it but it takes some hunting and asking naive questions to get started. 

 

[DennisC]

20 minutes ago, Jimini said:

There certainly seems to be two different perspectives on which is the "easier" method to implement these CAO tags.  larryllix has has been very forthcoming with information about the KumoApp method.  If you can point me to information on where to get started implementing the polisy method, I would like to take a look at what would be involved there.  But I will need to understand the nearly turnkey implantation of the polisy.  

My experience in this world of ISY and now CAO Tags is that it's all easy once you understand it but it takes some hunting and asking naive questions to get started. 

 

Here is a link to the Nodeserver store, where you can find all of the Nodeservers available:

https://polyglot.universal-devices.com/

Here is a link to the Read Me file for the CAO Wireless Tag Nodeserver:

https://github.com/jimboca/udi-wirelesstag-poly/blob/master/README.md

Here is a link to info about Polisy:

https://www.universal-devices.com/introducing-polisy/

Here is a link to UD store for Polisy:

https://www.universal-devices.com/product/polisy/

You can also just use an RPI, however, UD is currently working on Polyglot v3 which will not work on the RPI. Therefore, you might be setting up with something that will be end of life in the near future. 

The big advantage to the Polisy is it will eventually replace the ISY and become an all in one box. This will happen when UD ports the admin console over to Polisy, therby retiring the ISY hardware.

Edited February 19, 2021 by DennisC
Repair links

[Jimini]

Thanks.  That's a big help.