Insteon being discontinued?

[Teken]

@Teken, thank you for proving my point. Everything I outlined ALREADY EXISTS ... we don't need yet another standard.
With kind regards,
Michel

Hence the glue reference?!?

[larryllix]

4 hours ago, upstatemike said:

So applying that idea to home automation Tuya Smart Life should come to dominate the industry and all devices will be connected in the cloud because there is no other common playing field that everything can gain access to connect to.

This means Wi-Fi in some form will become the defacto standard HA protocol. There may even need to be legislation to outlaw NAT so that all devices are directly accessible from the cloud.

The newer WiFi6 and now WiFi6E could certainly make this all possible. I am not sure how the penetration of 69GHz is in a home but it's 1/8" micro bandwidth should go between drywall screws OK.

WiFi6 can easily stream 8K video to 12 devices at one time, so I am informed. It is using a similar technology to 5G and plays well between multiple devices. WiFi6E should be even faster and handle more devices. Routers are running >$1K so far though.

[Teken]

It's called Node Meta Model and already in your ISY 5x.
With kind regards,
Michel

As of this writing can anyone take anything that has a USB and plug it in to 5.XX / Polyisy and it will just work??

I don’t believe this to be the case without a NS (middleware) or driver.

Yes / No??

[upstatemike]

1 minute ago, larryllix said:

WiFi6 can easily stream 8K video to 12 devices at one time...

Over such a short distance that you might as well just use cables.

[larryllix]

5 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

Over such a short distance that you might as well just use cables.

My WiFi6  802.11ax has way more range than any WiFi5 I have seen yet. One router could do my whole house and acre of yard except it is a mesh router system and they crank the power level down so high rise apartments can have 2000 routers that can't hear each other.

I moved my 35+ WiFi bulbs over to an old non-mesh router now, set down to 25% Tx power and bulbs never disconnect anymore. On the mesh system they were a nuisance at times. Now that is WiFi4 (2.4GHz) but the WiFi6 has more range throughout the house. WiFi5 seems like it is being dropped by many routers now.

[jfai]

15 hours ago, DAlter01 said:

It is an entirely hands free experience.  They monitor your eyes to make sure you are awake and facing forward and you have your hands on the steering wheel occasionally but the car is doing all of the driving, lane changing, etc.

Hmmm, why does the so-called "self-driving" car coming to a city near me real soon now still have a steering wheel? Just wondering...?

[larryllix]

7 minutes ago, Teken said:

As of this writing can anyone take anything that has a USB and plug it in to 5.XX / Polyisy and it will just work??

I don’t believe this to be the case without a NS (middleware) or driver.

Yes / No??

We are told the USB PLM works in polISY now.

[lilyoyo1]

11 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

Maybe instead of a new standard we need a sort of modular framework. There could be individual modules that translate the different protocols and standards into a common format so they can interact. It could all be coordinated by a sort of module server to keep things organized and provide the logic engine to do useful things with all of those disparate devices. I wonder if something like that would be feasible?

Almost anything is feasible... It's whether or not anyone and everyone is motivated enough to do so

[upstatemike]

5 minutes ago, Teken said:

As of this writing can anyone take anything that has a USB and plug it in to 5.XX / Polyisy and it will just work??

I don’t believe this to be the case without a NS (middleware) or driver.

Yes / No??

PCs and phones use drivers but they are already included in the OS so it looks like things just work. I assume somebody could write a generic USB node that includes all of the common device drivers? That way when you plugged in a common device like a monitor or mouse it would appear to just work same as if you plugged it into a Windows PC.

[lilyoyo1]

2 minutes ago, jfai said:

Hmmm, why does the so-called "self-driving" car coming to a city near me real soon now still have a steering wheel? Just wondering...?

Self driving does not mean autonomous driving. 

There are many other reasons why they have steering wheels and will continue to do so. 

[DAlter01]

2 minutes ago, jfai said:

Hmmm, why does the so-called "self-driving" car coming to a city near me real soon now still have a steering wheel? Just wondering...?

It's basically a handle to help you get in and out easier.  ?

[upstatemike]

3 minutes ago, jfai said:

Hmmm, why does the so-called "self-driving" car coming to a city near me real soon now still have a steering wheel? Just wondering...?

That is not a steering wheel. It is the proprietary hardware interface for the required organic processor that the "automatic" driving system depends on.

[DAlter01]

Just now, upstatemike said:

That is not a steering wheel. It is the proprietary hardware interface for the required organic processor that the "automatic" driving system depends on.

That sounds like a government specification so they can charge 10x the price.  Must be for a DOD vehicle.

[larryllix]

10 minutes ago, jfai said:

Hmmm, why does the so-called "self-driving" car coming to a city near me real soon now still have a steering wheel? Just wondering...?

Because that level is not legal in North America. It hasn't been proven to work 100% of the time, and they have a long way to go to be able to safely negotiate a city intersection. Currently, driver assisted features are available only. It does take a lot of the stress out of driving but it cannot be allowed to operate for extended periods of time.

I love the ability to glance away from the road and have the vehicle slam the brakes on it something jumps out in front of me, or the radar detects something inside the fog that I cannot see yet. I have had it save my bacon a few times. One time it saved me I figure I must have drifted off while driving out of a small town on a hiway. I was never sure what happened but I don't remember having to look forward or up again.

So-called "self driving cars" have been involved in a few accidents and deaths where people's concept of what "autopilot" means has been exaggerated and the car didn't prevent the accident or death or even respond in some.

[Teken]

We are told the USB PLM works in polISY now.

Yes, not natively but required a updated driver package!

[Teken]

PCs and phones use drivers but they are already included in the OS so it looks like things just work. I assume somebody could write a generic USB node that includes all of the common device drivers? That way when you plugged in a common device like a monitor or mouse it would appear to just work same as if you plugged it into a Windows PC.

There will always be a need to install supporting drivers for X vs Y. A generic driver for common things makes sense and is in use for almost every Windows OS platform.

The same can’t be said for the various Linux distros!

Linux has come a long way but continues to lag behind Windows as to P&P. This is made worse as many companies do not provide Linux support for their wares. Some vendors have tried hard to follow the USB P&P standard so things just show up as a storage device, power, etc.

I’m having a very hard time believing any of my USB Beacons, headset, will just operate without more drivers / NS support.

This isn’t a fault of anyone it’s just how the state of affairs is hence the need for Standards!

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, Teken said:

You missed the whole point about perfection as I replied to the other member. That was perfection is not attainable vs striving for progress.

I offered what I truly believe is the closest thing man has used in everything we see around us.

Now, people could argue round was everywhere in nature and man simply had to make / copy it. That’s like saying man harnessing fire wasn’t what put us at the top of the food chain and insured our complete survival!

There are no less than ten things it has taken man thousands of years to understand, grasp, or harness.

Round / Fire are just the top two!

You keep arguing about standards but no one has said standards do not exist. They do. Whether one is truly needed for HA devices or if it will help or hurt HA in regards to innovation is one of the many questions that only time will tell. 

[Michel Kohanim]

11 minutes ago, Teken said:

Yes, not natively but required a updated driver package!

Thank you @Teken. You keep proving my point. Drivers exist. USB standards exist. TCP exists. HTTP exists. TLS exists. Everything we need already exists. We don't need a mother-standard that covers all other standards.

With kind regards,
Michel

[Teken]

You keep arguing about standards but no one has said standards do not exist. They do. Whether one is truly needed for HA devices or if it will help or hurt HA in regards to innovation is one of the many questions that only time will tell. 

Yes, and my position was standards will not hurt innovation or progress. It will simply make everything more compliant and easier to integrate with. I took the time to offer examples that anyone can relate to from cars, planes, whatever.

Why?!?

Because everyone knows these things and can relate to what is being discussed and affirm what I stated is FACT. It’s not conjecture or guess these are imperial facts that standards whether it caused others to be dragged screaming to adopt.

Did what??

Adoption, progress, iteration of the same. Think USB spanning five generations to be at USB Type C

Think POE to be at POE++ that allows crazy power to operate on super thin 23 AWG Ethernet cable while maintaining a 1G connection.

I simply countered your assertion that HA standards would kill off competition, innovation, progress.

Now, if only Americans would move off the imperial system that would be progress!!!

[Teken]

Thank you@Teken. You keep proving my point. Drivers exist. USB standards exist. TCP exists. HTTP exists. TLS exists. Everything we need already exists. We don't need a mother-standard that covers all other standards.
With kind regards,
Michel

Let me focus on what you’re saying if all of these standards exist. As of this writing can I take any USB device and plug it into the Polyisy and the same will just work??

More specifically without any other task besides insertion of said USB device into said port??

You have yet to answer this simple but important question.

[lilyoyo1]

5 minutes ago, Teken said:

Yes, and my position was standards will not hurt innovation or progress. It will simply make everything more compliant and easier to integrate with. I took the time to offer examples that anyone can relate to from cars, planes, whatever.

Why?!?

Because everyone knows these things and can relate to what is being discussed and affirm what I stated is FACT. It’s not conjecture or guess these are imperial facts that standards whether it caused others to be dragged screaming to adopt.

Did what??

Adoption, progress, iteration of the same. Think USB spanning five generations to be at USB Type C

Think POE to be at POE++ that allows crazy power to operate on super thin 23 AWG Ethernet cable while maintaining a 1G connection.

I simply countered your assertion that HA standards would kill off competition, innovation, progress.

Now, if only Americans would move off the imperial system that would be progress!!!

Or the world can catch up to us and get rid of the metric system. Lol

[Teken]

Or the world can catch up to us and get rid of the metric system. Lol

I have no words . . .

[Michel Kohanim]

3 minutes ago, Teken said:

Let me focus on what you’re saying if all of these standards exist. As of this writing can I take any USB device and plug it into the Polyisy and the same will just work??

What exactly does "the same" refer to? 

3 minutes ago, Teken said:

More specifically without any other task besides insertion of said USB device into said port??

I think you are confusing a USB device with a suppository. 

With kind regards,
Michel

[MrBill]

I know this has appeared in another thread ages ago... but it bears repeating...

 

[Teken]

I think you are confusing a USB device with a suppository. 
With kind regards,
Michel

I believe you’re purposely trying to ignore my simple question. I stated early on and will affirm once again there is a 50/50 chance a USB device will either be recognized or it won’t.

The root cause is many USB devices require what???

Supporting DRIVERS . . .

I don’t care what people call it it’s known to the lay person as software driver(s). Whether it simply has to be pulled from a random repository proves my point!

No computer system can natively support all hardware created today. This obviously applies to the Polyisy which is based on Linux BSD.

The latest rage has been the Insteon USB stick. Did that not require updates software on the BSD OS??

It did and thus the entire discussion about why standards exists and the impact they have on the consumer. I’m not playing games or using semantics these are questions that need solid answers!

Not whether a USB port has to go into the internet and perform a git pull blah blah.

Because if it does, it’s not standard, is it?!?

Standard is me literally taking my keyboard and plugging it into the Polyisy and guess what?

It’s identified and works! Me taking a environmental sensor and plugging it into the same besides offering power will not operate as expected.

Again it needs third party drivers that must be available on BSD or held in some repository server.