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Insteon being discontinued?

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larryllix Advanced

larryllix

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, asbril said:

In reference to @lilyoyo1's comments on shortage of chips :

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-great-car-chip-shortage-will-have-lasting-consequences-11632737422?st=cm1ftqd7xbugmu7&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Here comes the price increases with the chip shortage excuse.

Meanwhile, industry can produce 6,220 million vaccine doses on short notice.

Oh well the Columbia coffee bean shortage was only temporary  and the price will go back down soon...hmmmm still waiting after 25 years..

Maybe the fake gas shortage will end and the price....? nope, not that one either.

:)

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lilyoyo1 Advanced

lilyoyo1

Posted
Posted
58 minutes ago, larryllix said:

Here comes the price increases with the chip shortage excuse.

Meanwhile, industry can produce 6,220 million vaccine doses on short notice.

Oh well the Columbia coffee bean shortage was only temporary  and the price will go back down soon...hmmmm still waiting after 25 years..

Maybe the fake gas shortage will end and the price....? nope, not that one either.

:)

What does any of that have to do with anything?

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Teken Advanced

Teken

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Posted
What does any of that have to do with anything?

He’s inferring this chip shortage will be used as a excuse to increase the price on Insteon / Nokia hardware. All of the examples he’s cited at some point in time are / were real!

Everyone saw this on lumber . . .

There was no problem as it relates to lumber because the system is very regulated. Yet the people who physically make the product simply cut their production output and the net result was sky rocket prices!

A few months later the same dropped back to the same price levels or below as there was a glut of supply. This exact scenario has played out with gas / oil. The biggest difference is OPEC and other none OPEC nations (Iran, Russia, USA) have finally agreed to f^ck the consumer together!

That’s why oil is $85-119 a barrel vs below $45.00 a few years ago!

This is made even worse by moronic idiots who think a **** in the wind is going to cause the world to end!

Think, the Suez Canal stuck ship - so called end of the world emergency?!?

The only time things truly go up is if something gets wiped out say due to a natural disaster. Think when that flood wiped out all the major HD, memory, chip plants. That was real because the f^cken building was literally gone or all the equipment was damaged from water!

There was a massive fire that wiped out a very specific tree and guess what that’s a real supply vs demand issue because it takes that tree 50-100 years to grow before it can be used!

Not any of these fake shortages called out by endless companies which are not even related to chips. If people said there are cascade failures due to the above - sure! But don’t keep saying that microwave isn’t available because it’s a chip - it isn’t!

I literally went to four major stores to see appliances that span fridge, freezer, stove, microwave, dishwasher, washer, dryer. Every major brand that spans LG ~ Whirlpool was there ready for buy & go!
The prices spanned $250-5500.00 depending upon what the appliance was.

How many IC chips are in a fridge?!? There’s probably four models that offer stupid people TV / Computers in those offerings! That has no baring on the other 9999999999 fridges that don’t! Yet people are being told a chip shortage has caused a dumb fridge to be delayed for 3-6 months bull sh^t.

It’s just plain greed as it has always been.
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lilyoyo1 Advanced

lilyoyo1

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Teken said:


He’s inferring this chip shortage will be used as a excuse to increase the price on Insteon / Nokia hardware. All of the examples he’s cited at some point in time are / were real!

Everyone saw this on lumber . . .

There was no problem as it relates to lumber because the system is very regulated. Yet the people who physically make the product simply cut their production output and the net result was sky rocket prices!

A few months later the same dropped back to the same price levels or below as there was a glut of supply. This exact scenario has played out with gas / oil. The biggest difference is OPEC and other none OPEC nations (Iran, Russia, USA) have finally agreed to f^ck the consumer together!

That’s why oil is $85-119 a barrel vs below $45.00 a few years ago!

This is made even worse by moronic idiots who think a **** in the wind is going to cause the world to end! emoji2357.pngemoji107.png

Think, the Suez Canal stuck ship - so called end of the world emergency?!?

The only time things truly go up is if something gets wiped out say due to a natural disaster. Think when that flood wiped out all the major HD, memory, chip plants. That was real because the f^cken building was literally gone or all the equipment was damaged from water!

There was a massive fire that wiped out a very specific tree and guess what that’s a real supply vs demand issue because it takes that tree 50-100 years to grow before it can be used!

Not any of these fake shortages called out by endless companies which are not even related to chips. If people said there are cascade failures due to the above - sure! But don’t keep saying that microwave isn’t available because it’s a chip - it isn’t!

I literally went to four major stores to see appliances that span fridge, freezer, stove, microwave, dishwasher, washer, dryer. Every major brand that spans LG ~ Whirlpool was there ready for buy & go!
The prices spanned $250-5500.00 depending upon what the appliance was.

How many IC chips are in a fridge?!? There’s probably four models that offer stupid people TV / Computers in those offerings! That has no baring on the other 9999999999 fridges that don’t! Yet people are being told a chip shortage has caused a dumb fridge to be delayed for 3-6 months bull sh^t.

It’s just plain greed as it has always been.

Here we go again. Its not just a chip shortage. There's a shortage and increase with everything. The chip shortage is just main news due to it causing major shutdowns in the automotive industry. 

Pretty much anything we use that is powered by electricty has a chip in it. Even refrigerators. Not just the 4 models that you think. Just because you see stuff to be sold doesn't mean they're running at full capacity. Insteon has switches available right now to buy. Does that mean they're out of the woods on inventory? No it doesn't. 

Just because your local stores are full of stuff doesn't mean the rest of the country or world is. Let's be real, the great state of California has more people than all of Canada. You're going to have full stores since there aren't enough people to buy everything ?. 

There is much more than the silicone shortage that goes into price increases. For example, one of my clients runs a local steel mill. I talked to him about how they were affected. Simply due to covid prevention/mitigation, they spent over 3 mil on cleaning, PPE, etc. for their workers and that's at a single Mill. How many other factories had to do the same. How many companies in general had to do the same? Even now, you're having companies giving bonuses to retain and hire new workers and increasing salaries. Needing to do more with less. All comes at a price. 

My prices are higher now than they were before COVID. Why? I have to pay more for people to work,  material cost is higher (even with discounts), and other associated costs has gone up such as insurance, supplies, and keeping myself and workers safe. Early on, I ate the cost increases due to my discounted pricing (also why I've gotten away from lower cost goods...Less margin). However, with  the cost to stay in business rising, I had to make adjustments as well.

Just like any other business owner, I'm in this to make money. Is that me being greedy. No. That's me making sure I can stay in business to provide for my family and maintain our lifestyle for today and long into the future. 

Take trucking industry. I have 2 friends with trucking companies. 1 owns a dump truck company with 80 trucks in 3 different locations. Another has about 120 delivery vans. Both raised their worker pay in order to keep staff from leaving to hire paying companies since other companies were hiring as well. Though they assign vehicles to their driver's, they still pay companies to sanitize their vehicles (and office) weekly and/or when someone switches to a different one. Both provide masks and sanitizer to employees. In addition to that, they had to hire extra people to have coverage for when people get sick. They also provided paid time off to get tested, vaccinated, etc. to their employees. All of which was not budgeted for when COVID hit. Now it is but it's still an added cost that gets passed on to customers. That's not greed. Its the cost of doing business. Is there greed? Of course. But there are also lots of things that goes into the cost of things that people do.

The law of supply and demand drives price increases (besides the usual things that goes into cost). The less supply there is with demand, the more a person can charge. In regards to automation, the good thing is that we don't have to buy stuff if we don't want to pay what they want for it. The less demand there is with an abundance of supply means lower cost. 

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Teken Advanced

Teken

Posted
Posted
Here we go again. Its not just a chip shortage. There's a shortage and increase with everything. The chip shortage is just main news due to it causing major shutdowns in the automotive industry. 
Pretty much anything we use that is powered by electricty has a chip in it. Even refrigerators. Not just the 4 models that you think. Just because you see stuff to be sold doesn't mean they're running at full capacity. Insteon has switches available right now to buy. Does that mean they're out of the woods on inventory? No it doesn't. 
Just because your local stores are full of stuff doesn't mean the rest of the country or world is. Let's be real, the great state of California has more people than all of Canada. You're going to have full stores since there aren't enough people to buy everything . 
There is much more than the silicone shortage that goes into price increases. For example, one of my clients runs a local steel mill. I talked to him about how they were affected. Simply due to covid prevention/mitigation, they spent over 3 mil on cleaning, PPE, etc. for their workers and that's at a single Mill. How many other factories had to do the same. How many companies in general had to do the same? Even now, you're having companies giving bonuses to retain and hire new workers and increasing salaries. Needing to do more with less. All comes at a price. 
My prices are higher now than they were before COVID. Why? I have to pay more for people to work,  material cost is higher (even with discounts), and other associated costs has gone up such as insurance, supplies, and keeping myself and workers safe. Early on, I ate the cost increases due to my discounted pricing (also why I've gotten away from lower cost goods...Less margin). However, with  the cost to stay in business rising, I had to make adjustments as well.
Just like any other business owner, I'm in this to make money. Is that me being greedy. No. That's me making sure I can stay in business to provide for my family and maintain our lifestyle for today and long into the future. 
Take trucking industry. I have 2 friends with trucking companies. 1 owns a dump truck company with 80 trucks in 3 different locations. Another has about 120 delivery vans. Both raised their worker pay in order to keep staff from leaving to hire paying companies since other companies were hiring as well. Though they assign vehicles to their driver's, they still pay companies to sanitize their vehicles (and office) weekly and/or when someone switches to a different one. Both provide masks and sanitizer to employees. In addition to that, they had to hire extra people to have coverage for when people get sick. They also provided paid time off to get tested, vaccinated, etc. to their employees. All of which was not budgeted for when COVID hit. Now it is but it's still an added cost that gets passed on to customers. That's not greed. Its the cost of doing business. Is there greed? Of course. But there are also lots of things that goes into the cost of things that people do.
The law of supply and demand drives price increases (besides the usual things that goes into cost). The less supply there is with demand, the more a person can charge. In regards to automation, the good thing is that we don't have to buy stuff if we don't want to pay what they want for it. The less demand there is with an abundance of supply means lower cost. 

As always having a discussion with you is always fun. I’ll take that jab about CA vs CA it’s true!

As it relates to what Larry was eluding to my statement holds true. I provided no less than three examples affirming the same.

Wood prices had nothing to do with chips at all but plain greed. Oil / gas exactly the same where you have greedy aszz holes holding back supply so prices go out the roof!

I’ve said this 99999999999 times that the first time someone has the balls to regulate this sector will either get assassinated or become the supreme leader of the world.

Why?!?

Because there are trillions of dollars on the line and these greedy [censored]ss won’t let that slide.

As it relates to shortages in general I agree COVID-19 is killing every sector without consequence to who you are. The fact people keep saying there’s this 1-10 chips in a car that has slowed down or stopped production is not only untrue it’s exaggeration to the extreme.

People are comparing a fridge to a car??? Yet millions of companies are kicking out every known electronic device that span A/V, Stereo, watches, gaming systems, name anything and it’s flying off the shelf and production line?!?

Every device I just listed has more IC and components than any fridge, stove, microwave, never mind car.

But these systems are churning out like hot cakes . . . Again, the problem is not a so called shortage it’s due to the fact people are screwing around with the supply chain in hopes of driving up prices! The reason some companies haven’t seen a hit is because they have legal contracts that protect them from the same.

Other smart companies have multiple sources to acquire their wares to insure these issues are not a problem. Think Apple spending billions to create their very own silicone to run their computers. Intel has failed to release on time or performance vs others which impacted apples long term sales goals.

Hence AMD / Hysilicone / Samsung / other have taken away sales from Intel. Qualcomm is the perfect example of offering the very best cellular technology but Crapple figured let’s f^ck with this company like Walmart does every year to squeeze out another wooden nickel?!?

That’s why other companies that used Qualcomm technology offered superior performance vs Crapple! It’s only because you guessed it the high courts ruled in favour of Qualcomm that’s why Crapple yielded and paid what was owed!

Now Crapple can once again offer what everyone has been using for 3 years!

Regardless of the above Crapple has dozens of supply channels that offer them buffer and protection so their production isn’t affected.

Is that the same for the big 3 - no.

Because you’re talking about people who consistently churn out the worst vehicles on the planet! It’s not because they can’t make better, or know better. They simply have people who live and breathe cheap sh^t.

The most famous historic event was when these companies laughed and chuckled at the little Japs. All walking around taking photos of their production lines and methods. America with its blinders discounted what the east would produce year’s later.

Nobody is laughing at the Japanese as it relates to anything to do with high technology much less vehicles!

Just plain hubris as it relates to what if!

How does that relate to this so called chip shortage??? Supply chain management as outlined by my Apple examples. These companies are always a day late and dollar short!
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lilyoyo1 Advanced

lilyoyo1

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Teken said:


As always having a discussion with you is always fun. I’ll take that jab about CA vs CA it’s true! emoji1787.pngemoji2357.png

As it relates to what Larry was eluding to my statement holds true. I provided no less than three examples affirming the same.

Wood prices had nothing to do with chips at all but plain greed. Oil / gas exactly the same where you have greedy aszz holes holding back supply so prices go out the roof!

I’ve said this 99999999999 times that the first time someone has the balls to regulate this sector will either get assassinated or become the supreme leader of the world.

Why?!?

Because there are trillions of dollars on the line and these greedy [censored]ss won’t let that slide. emoji3516.png

As it relates to shortages in general I agree COVID-19 is killing every sector without consequence to who you are. The fact people keep saying there’s this 1-10 chips in a car that has slowed down or stopped production is not only untrue it’s exaggeration to the extreme.

People are comparing a fridge to a car??? Yet millions of companies are kicking out every known electronic device that span A/V, Stereo, watches, gaming systems, name anything and it’s flying off the shelf and production line?!?

Every device I just listed has more IC and components than any fridge, stove, microwave, never mind car.

But these systems are churning out like hot cakes . . . Again, the problem is not a so called shortage it’s due to the fact people are screwing around with the supply chain in hopes of driving up prices! The reason some companies haven’t seen a hit is because they have legal contracts that protect them from the same.

Other smart companies have multiple sources to acquire their wares to insure these issues are not a problem. Think Apple spending billions to create their very own silicone to run their computers. Intel has failed to release on time or performance vs others which impacted apples long term sales goals.

Hence AMD / Hysilicone / Samsung / other have taken away sales from Intel. Qualcomm is the perfect example of offering the very best cellular technology but Crapple figured let’s f^ck with this company like Walmart does every year to squeeze out another wooden nickel?!?

That’s why other companies that used Qualcomm technology offered superior performance vs Crapple! It’s only because you guessed it the high courts ruled in favour of Qualcomm that’s why Crapple yielded and paid what was owed!

Now Crapple can once again offer what everyone has been using for 3 years! emoji2357.pngemoji1787.png

Regardless of the above Crapple has dozens of supply channels that offer them buffer and protection so their production isn’t affected.

Is that the same for the big 3 - no.

Because you’re talking about people who consistently churn out the worst vehicles on the planet! It’s not because they can’t make better, or know better. They simply have people who live and breathe cheap sh^t.

The most famous historic event was when these companies laughed and chuckled at the little Japs. All walking around taking photos of their production lines and methods. America with its blinders discounted what the east would produce year’s later.

Nobody is laughing at the Japanese as it relates to anything to do with high technology much less vehicles!

Just plain hubris as it relates to what if!

How does that relate to this so called chip shortage??? Supply chain management as outlined by my Apple examples. These companies are always a day late and dollar short!

As always, you give half the story to support your so called facts. After you ignore my rebuttals, you change the goal posts to try and fit your argument. 

Since you want to talk about trees, whats behind the rise in costs? A shutdown of Mills, coupled with the unexpected booming construction market here in the US taking away your precious Canadian trees. That with a certain so called President adding a 24% tariff to imported wood raised prices here. There....back to California I go....

Wholesale lumber prices have dropped significantly though it's still high as hell. That difference hasn't been seen in stores yet because old inventory hasnt sold yet. They purchased at x dollars which they need to recoup before they sell at a new lower price. You'd do the same. 

Here you go, bringing up old stuff. This isn't the 70s, 80s and 90s anymore. Mfg. practices are much different today than they were back then. Even Hyundai makes really good cars now. The chip shortage affects every single car company whether they're American, Korean, German, Japanese, etc. You hear about the big 3 because it's North America. Toyota just cut output by 40% this month so there goes that argument. 

In regards to Crapple- you might want to check your sources. They've already stated their MacBooks and ipads have been affected. They expect it to hit the iPhone in the 4th quarter impacted the iPhone 13. 

And yes, I'm quite sure you'll see (and are seeing) hoarding. Hell, I've started hoarding things as well to ensure I'm good for my installations and service work. Most companies went to lean mfg. to save money on warehousing and it caught up to them due to the pandemic. 

I can't believe thatnyour using the whole.these other companies are making things so why can't they argument. That's ridiculous. Yes, millions of items are still being made but millions more are not. Do you think Sony still wants empty shelves of PS5's with the holiday season approaching? Do you think Sonos wants 1 or Sonos 5 in most best buys? Nope. Just because they're able to make them doesn't mean they are making the quantity they want. 

Making a car is a lot different than making a product. Due to the costs involved in mfg,  if they don't make a certain amount when they run, it can cost tens of thousands of dollars. In addition, new products newly designed can take advantage of newer chips that may or may not be in short supply vs something that was designed years ago. With apple designing their own chips, this is part of why they haven't had the same issues as others. Their devices that use off the shelf parts are effected. This is why apple is starting to feel the pinch. Their stockpile for off the shelf components are running out. What they design is in great supply but the components that goes into other stuff isn't. You're an extremely intelligent man, i know you know this same information. You're just choosing to ignore it. 

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larryllix Advanced

larryllix

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, asbril said:

@lilyoyo1Let's keep politics out of this forum.

Let's talk about toilet paper :):)

...and then Cabbage Patch Dolls. Excellent example of artificial shortages to get the price or shortage panic up. People paid hundreds of dollars for those silly dolls. It was marketing genius and many are attempting the same thing.

 

...but let's not talk about vaccine shortages causing higher enrollment than any medication has ever seen throughout history before.

When the ball gets dropped and product is not ordered there is a legitimate shortage after.

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lilyoyo1 Advanced

lilyoyo1

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, larryllix said:

Let's talk about toilet paper :):)

...and then Cabbage Patch Dolls. Excellent example of artificial shortages to get the price or shortage panic up. People paid hundreds of dollars for those silly dolls. It was marketing genius and many are attempting the same thing.

 

...but let's not talk about vaccine shortages causing higher enrollment than any medication has ever seen throughout history before.

When the ball gets dropped and product is not ordered there is a legitimate shortage after.

There was never a toilet paper shortage. There was a common sense shortage. Had people not made a run on toilet paper, over buying it to hoard, stores never would have sold out

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apostolakisl Advanced

apostolakisl

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Wholesale lumber prices have dropped significantly though it's still high as hell. That difference hasn't been seen in stores yet because old inventory hasnt sold yet. They purchased at x dollars which they need to recoup before they sell at a new lower price. You'd do the same. 

 

Actually, they have come down a lot.  My local HD and Lowe's were up to $8 for a standard grade 2x4 maybe 6 months ago.  I was in there the other day and they were down to $4.  Still a far cry from the $1.5 they used to be, but a hell of a lot better.  The thing to notice here as that markets worked.  The price spike was inconvenient but it self corrects.  I doubt it will ever come back down to $1.50 in part due to the fact that general inflation is taking hold.  Tariffs are a two way street and Canada has a lot of self examination to do if they want free access in the US.

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