Thermostat Selection - Ecobee?

[palayman]

It's time for me to pick up a couple of thermostats to work with my ISY.

Have heard a lot of negative things about the Insteon ones.

Am seriously considering Ecobee, but don't want to be in the same position I am with my MyQ garage doors. The MyQ nodeserver uses an unpublished API that changed recently resulting in a nodeserver that currently doesn't work.  No fault of the developer.  Is the Ecobee noderserver based on a published API? If not, is there another thermostat that is? Have some Z-wave devices, so that is also an option.

Thanks in advance,

Paul

[lilyoyo1]

22 minutes ago, palayman said:

It's time for me to pick up a couple of thermostats to work with my ISY.

Have heard a lot of negative things about the Insteon ones.

Am seriously considering Ecobee, but don't want to be in the same position I am with my MyQ garage doors. The MyQ nodeserver uses an unpublished API that changed recently resulting in a nodeserver that currently doesn't work.  No fault of the developer.  Is the Ecobee noderserver based on a published API? If not, is there another thermostat that is? Have some Z-wave devices, so that is also an option.

Thanks in advance,

Paul

I've been using ecobee since the original ecobee first came out. Outside of the glas thermostat (for looks only), I wouldn't use anything else. It works great outside of the Isy for managing my hvac system. So well in fact that it took a long time before I even attempted to add it to the isy.

The nodeservers are using the official APIs. Both PGC and local are supported. 

To this day, it's main functions are still outside of the isy. I just have it connected to change modes when the house is empty, coming home, doors/windows open, and the ceiling fans. 

[simplextech]

38 minutes ago, palayman said:

Is the Ecobee noderserver based on a published API? If not, is there another thermostat that is? Have some Z-wave devices, so that is also an option.

My opinion... If I had "normal" HVAC where I could use a standard Thermostat my choice would be Venstar.  They have a public API and it's made for integrating with systems.  Also widely supported by almost every home automation/control system too.

[Jimbo.Automates]

5 hours ago, palayman said:

It's time for me to pick up a couple of thermostats to work with my ISY.

Have heard a lot of negative things about the Insteon ones.

Am seriously considering Ecobee, but don't want to be in the same position I am with my MyQ garage doors. The MyQ nodeserver uses an unpublished API that changed recently resulting in a nodeserver that currently doesn't work.  No fault of the developer.  Is the Ecobee noderserver based on a published API? If not, is there another thermostat that is? Have some Z-wave devices, so that is also an option.

Thanks in advance,

Paul

The Ecobere NS does use a published and supported API, they do respond when we have issues, not always in a timely fashion but they do.  I dislike that the API is cloud based and would prefer local,  One reason I chose it was I needed a reliable way to access from the internet in case ISY or nodeserver was down because it's in my lake house with crappy satellite internet and the Honeywell I had before was to flakey and when it's over 100 degrees I must be able to get the AC on before arriving  Also having the remote wireless sensors worked out great for our little place.  Llike @lilyoyo1 I do very little with ISY and use Ecobee's functions for the most part.

 

[larryllix]

I have to second the ecobee support. After experiencing many different brands of stats I find the ecobee far ahead of all of them. ecobee stats calculate temperatures to 0.1C resolution and the sensor drift is much less than other brands, if you are sensitive to constant temperature variances.

I don;t use most of the fancy features offered in the ecobee stats (I have two) because they don't work for my house and system that responds very slowly and too late for most of that fancy stuff. (follow me, and home/away detection).

I use the Vacation settings with advanced scheduling for controlling my ISY vacation/home detection program control. It is totally reliable. The only time I ever had trouble with my ecobee stats remote access was with a router that was Home Automation device overloaded.

The user programmable "climates" (scheduled time segments) works well so ISY doesn't have to deal with any temperatures for unusual weather patterns. I just defined a new climate called "Extreme weather" and ISY switches it on when too cold of a temperature is found with high winds, about twice per year. ecobee always times it out and resets to "normal" scheduling later. Very self-dependent and reliable.

I have an ecobee4 and an older ecobee3. I understand the ecobee3 is not available anymore and replaced by the ecobee3 Lite. The later version is missing some features like (IIRC) HRV or humidifier control. Dont buy the ecobee4 for the Alexa features, I found it missing 5GHz and many Alexa features. It also does not hear understand well flat against a wall. It also heard incorrectly, constantly from TV shows. Other Echoes work much better.

 

[io_guy]

10 hours ago, simplextech said:

My opinion... If I had "normal" HVAC where I could use a standard Thermostat my choice would be Venstar.  They have a public API and it's made for integrating with systems.  Also widely supported by almost every home automation/control system too.

And it's a local API.  

Ecobee's cloud servers are notoriously unreliable.  

[madcodger]

Just a thought...

If you want to control a thermostat (or many other devices), you can either pick one that doesn't use the cloud but that may have fewer features (e.g., the trusty z-wave GoControls) and know that it is going to continue to work for you as long as the device itself functions OR you can pick one that is cloud/API - based (likely with more features), but realize that you are taking on the risk of that API changing in the future. We should have all learned this from Nest, MyQ, etc.

Personally, after long arguing in favor of the cloud, I've shifted to being a fan of more local control despite thinking that devices like the ecobee are good for most people who don't use a HA controller. (I recommended them to a friend a couple of days ago). If a connection is based on some company's API, it's subject to their whims, strategy changes, outright greed, etc. And, of course, they depend on the internet itself functioning. Choose accordingly, balancing features against that risk.

 

[lilyoyo1]

I personally wouldn't go with a zwave thermostat. Yes local is great but in this case, I think wifi thermostats (cloud or local) are a much better option. 

It would definitely be better to have the ecobee be local don't get me wrong. However, the way the ecobee is by default, it works extremely well without manual intervention. Personally, I don't want to be so ISY dependent that if it fails (while I'm out of town), something major can be impacted. This is why my sprinkler, alarm, and hvac are all set up to work without the isy. The Isy extends capabilities but they are not dependent for every day use. 

If Venstar thermostats looked better, I would be willing to use their touchscreen as it is local  along with access without the needing the isy (unlike a zwave thermostat). If my internet is down (whether isp or my router), I'm out of luck regardless of what I use. If ecobee's servers are down, that's temporary and I'd have access later. However, any isy issues screws the whole system. 

Nest and myq are great examples of cloud systems doing wrong. Personally, i never bought into nest due to how quickly and easily google abandons things. I simply don't trust them. With myq, they've been who they are from the start so Im not surprised about their handling of their api. When we went with new garage door openers, I went with myq. Why? Because of something happened while away, I could still use their app without the isy. The myq noderservers is wonderful and I do use it. At the same time, I've still set up pieces so that I can still do what I need locally for the times when myq fails as a back up.

For me, cloud does present challenges but they also present lots of opportunity if one takes the time to plan accordingly with integrating

[larryllix]

2 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I personally wouldn't go with a zwave thermostat. Yes local is great but in this case, I think wifi thermostats (cloud or local) are a much better option. 

It would definitely be better to have the ecobee be local don't get me wrong. However, the way the ecobee is by default, it works extremely well without manual intervention. Personally, I don't want to be so ISY dependent that if it fails (while I'm out of town), something major can be impacted. This is why my sprinkler, alarm, and hvac are all set up to work without the isy. The Isy extends capabilities but they are not dependent for every day use. 

If Venstar thermostats looked better, I would be willing to use their touchscreen as it is local  along with access without the needing the isy (unlike a zwave thermostat). If my internet is down (whether isp or my router), I'm out of luck regardless of what I use. If ecobee's servers are down, that's temporary and I'd have access later. However, any isy issues screws the whole system. 

Nest and myq are great examples of cloud systems doing wrong. Personally, i never bought into nest due to how quickly and easily google abandons things. I simply don't trust them. With myq, they've been who they are from the start so Im not surprised about their handling of their api. When we went with new garage door openers, I went with myq. Why? Because of something happened while away, I could still use their app without the isy. The myq noderservers is wonderful and I do use it. At the same time, I've still set up pieces so that I can still do what I need locally for the times when myq fails as a back up.

For me, cloud does present challenges but they also present lots of opportunity if one takes the time to plan accordingly with integrating

I agree with these statements 100% except for myQ. I got it because there was no choice but I never control my garage doors. I monitor them only. OTOH I live in a small rural community that would call me on the phone if I left my garage doors open. LOL

I am just about to toss my junk bin Venstar Touch stat in the bin as it must be pushed with 10 pounds of force to make it respond and another replacement unit started my A/C compressor in reverse due to it's poor algorithms with timing. I happened to be walking by it outside and got to the safety switch in time to avoid it destroying itself. I used it for just a temperature probe for a while but the CAO Wireless Tags made that obsolete also.

A good thermostat is a self contained HA system and requires no fiddling. I use ISY for a monitor and rare (once/twice per year)  temporary adjustments. If your ISY must fiddle with setting every day, then get a better thermostat. If you must remote control your thermostat frequently, get a better thermostat. I want serious wired and reliable controls for my HVAC, not a toy. ecobee stats offer the best of both worlds.

[lilyoyo1]

8 minutes ago, larryllix said:

I agree with these statements 100% except for myQ. I got it because there was no choice but I never control my garage doors. I monitor them only. OTOH I live in a small rural community that would call me on the phone if I left my garage doors open. LOL

I am just about to toss my junk bin Venstar Touch stat in the bin as it must be pushed with 10 pounds of force to make it respond and another replacement unit started my A/C compressor in reverse due to it's poor algorithms with timing. I happened to be walking by it outside and got to the safety switch in time to avoid it destroying itself. I used it for just a temperature probe for a while but the CAO Wireless Tags made that obsolete also.

A good thermostat is a self contained HA system and requires no fiddling. I use ISY for a monitor and rare (once/twice per year)  temporary adjustments. If your ISY must fiddle with setting every day, then get a better thermostat. If you must remote control your thermostat frequently, get a better thermostat. I want serious wired and reliable controls for my HVAC, not a toy. ecobee stats offer the best of both worlds.

I completely agree

[palayman]

On 1/12/2021 at 1:13 PM, simplextech said:

My opinion... If I had "normal" HVAC where I could use a standard Thermostat my choice would be Venstar.  They have a public API and it's made for integrating with systems.  Also widely supported by almost every home automation/control system too.

After much additional research and deliberation I went with a couple of the Venstar's with a remote stat in the MBR. Working well and the interface seems fine although some of the documentation is a bit lacking.

Now I'm adding a whole home Dehumidifier.  This is all in a vacation home in Central Florida.  Trying to figure the optimal operation of the three systems to keep the humidity around 55% and the temperature reasonable when we are not here.  Was thinking about just running the Dehumidifier 24/7 set to 55% and cooling the house a bit in the early morning when the outside air temp is lowest and AC units will be most efficient.  Will probably run the fans intermittently as well.

Does anyone else have any advice?

Paul

[larryllix]

2 hours ago, palayman said:

After much additional research and deliberation I went with a couple of the Venstar's with a remote stat in the MBR. Working well and the interface seems fine although some of the documentation is a bit lacking.

Now I'm adding a whole home Dehumidifier.  This is all in a vacation home in Central Florida.  Trying to figure the optimal operation of the three systems to keep the humidity around 55% and the temperature reasonable when we are not here.  Was thinking about just running the Dehumidifier 24/7 set to 55% and cooling the house a bit in the early morning when the outside air temp is lowest and AC units will be most efficient.  Will probably run the fans intermittently as well.

Does anyone else have any advice?

Paul

Sounds like high humidity level for me, in Canada.
Are you aware of ecobee's overcooling capability where you can set the A/C overcool levels when humidity rises above the dehumidifaction levels? That is where you can set the dehumidification setpoint as well. I find it and to locate but it makes sense each time I spend an hour looking for it.

[palayman]

6 hours ago, larryllix said:

Sounds like high humidity level for me, in Canada.
Are you aware of ecobee's overcooling capability where you can set the A/C overcool levels when humidity rises above the dehumidifaction levels? That is where you can set the dehumidification setpoint as well. I find it and to locate but it makes sense each time I spend an hour looking for it.

Actually, overcooling is why I have installed the whole house dehumidifier. AC's are designed to cool air with dehumidification being a side product. Whole home dehumidifiers are optimized differently.  Idea is to keep humidity down without breaking the bank on cooling.  Yes 55% is high for summer outside of Owen Sound, but it is what is necessary to keep a home safe when you're not there.

Cheers,

Paul

[larryllix]

4 hours ago, palayman said:

Actually, overcooling is why I have installed the whole house dehumidifier. AC's are designed to cool air with dehumidification being a side product. Whole home dehumidifiers are optimized differently.  Idea is to keep humidity down without breaking the bank on cooling.  Yes 55% is high for summer outside of Owen Sound, but it is what is necessary to keep a home safe when you're not there.

Cheers,

Paul

OK...safe from what?

ahhhh. Just realised you are trying to keep it down to 55% whereas in Canada we think of always trying to keep humidity up to 40%.

In summer our humidity here is often 97% outside but our a/c units are mostly undersized to lower the humidity in the homes by making the a/c run longer and get more air passing over the cooling coils, condensing more humidity.

I had a portable dehumidifier years back but they always heat the rooms so much with the compressor running. In our basements that works out OK.

[Bumbershoot]

On 2/16/2021 at 7:19 AM, palayman said:

Does anyone else have any advice?

Well, if you want to use nodeservers to help control your home environment and you're using Venstar ColorTouch thermostats, then you'll want to know the there are two nodeservers available: one that runs on Nodelink and one that runs on Polyglot.  There are some differences, with the Nodelink nodeserver having the most functionality with regards to your dehumidifier/humidifier.  The Polyglot nodeserver only reports the humidity value, while the Nodelink nodeserver tells you the status of the humidifier/dehumidifier, lets you adjust humidity setpoints, etc.