JTsao Posted January 28, 2021 Posted January 28, 2021 I have 3 Schlage BE469 locks (old z-wave); all three will respond to nightly commands to ensure that the doors are locked, and they can be queried from the ISY; however 2 have some kind of communications issues and 1 of those 2 is draining batteries a lot faster than the others. The ISY is right next to one of the locks and that one appears to communicate fine. The other 2, not so much. I do have 1 Aeotec Gen6 repeater and two Aeotec Gen5 repeaters, one GE Enbrighten motion switch and a GE On/Off module to assist with communications, but they don't seem to be helping much. I did a synchronize nodes->all and got the output below (edited to remove various Polisy node servers) - two of the locks did not complete the operation; can anyone tell anything from the event viewer file attached? (zw002=Gen6 repeater, zw003, zw004=gen5 repeater, zw006=on/off module, zw007=GE enbrighten switch, zw008=near lock, zw009,zw010=far locks) ISY-Events-Log.v5.3.0__Thu 2021.01.28 08.42.19 AM-ZWAVE-ONLY.txt
IT Solutions Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 We have a new ISY and are trying to connect it via ZWave to a Schlage BE469 CEN 625 deadbolt and two Schlage FE599NX CAM 619 ACC 619 door handles. The ZWave works most of the time on the 469 deadbolt but definitely not a high enough percentage of the time for something important enough as a lock. The ZWave works less than 10% of the time on the two FE599NX door knobs. If we put the ISY less then 3 feet from the lock with line of site to the lock, it still works less than 10% of the time. Yes, the 3 Schlage locks are the first 3 ZWave devices in the ISY. When issuing a lock request in the UD web portal we get the following error. Also, the two door knobs do not report their current state, but the deadbolt does. The ISY is about 8 feet from the deadbolt and there is a wall between the ISY and the deadbolt. All the locks are in metal doors. Any suggestions on how to make this work reliably? Thank you, IT Solutions
Michel Kohanim Posted January 31, 2021 Posted January 31, 2021 @IT Solutions, Some suggestions, please put ISY Vertically. Put range extenders in strategic locations AND right mouse click | Z-Wave | Update Neighbors. With kind regards, Michel
IT Solutions Posted February 1, 2021 Posted February 1, 2021 The Update Neighbors helped. Thank you. The metal doors are definitely a problem with the locks. We need to be on the inside (non-keypad) side for the Z-Wave to work. What range (how many feet/meters) for Z-Wave should we be getting from the ISY to the first Z-Wave device (not on the wrong side of a metal door) and get a reliable connection? 1
Michel Kohanim Posted February 3, 2021 Posted February 3, 2021 @IT Solutions, Line of sight, with no obstruction, it should be 100ft. That's how we got certified. With kind regards, Michel
wdhille Posted February 21, 2021 Posted February 21, 2021 Folks, I'd like to jump in here as I'm certainly struggling with my Schlage locks. When they are a direct connection to the ISY they seem to work 100% of the time. When any repeater is introduced in the link, they do not work reliably. Period. I'm in contact with Schlage who's only advice so far is to buy Dome repeaters that they have tested. Well I bought six Dome Repeaters last week, and they work no better/no worse than the Aeotec or Inovelli Z-Wave plus repeaters. Bottom line, after a lot of work, the Schlage locks have issues when using repeaters. They seem to work OK if they are the first hop to the ISY. I also purchased a Hubitat Hub to see if maybe the ISY was at fault. It is not. The Hubitat has the same issues as the ISY. Thanks to Jeff Bezos for refunding my hard earned cash. I purchased a Z-Wave Tool box recently to help understand what is going on. The "problem" node is Schlage lock ID 51. It gets no response from the Network health tester, even when I set it to "never sleep". I have one Dome RE less than a foot away. All of the Dome's have rock solid connections to the ISY. My real goal is to control a lock about 100 feet away from the ISY. It's a tough shot and the lock is in a metal door. The solution that worked for me is to purchase a second ISY with Z-Wave and put that in the same room/building as the Lock. Now that lock works great, and now I have two ISY's.... For anyone interested, I've attached some screen captures of the Z-Wave toolbox that show a little bit of what's going on. The problematic lock is Device ID 51. It has a Dome repeater 12 inches away. The network health tester shows rock solid links to all the repeaters. (Repeater Slave and Power Switch Binary) Device 90 is a lock that while only 25 feet from the ISY needs a repeater to work. Device 12 is a direct connection. I need to give a big thank you to Michel from UD for all the patience, help, support and advice while I figure this out. My Insteon Devices (over 70) are and always have been rock solid. When I step back and look at things, the money I've wasted on Z-Wave repeaters would have been better spent buying additional ISY's... They seem to work fine with the Z-Wave locks. I also want to say it may not be just a Schlage issue. I had a Kwikset ZWP look for 29 days also which worked about as poorly as the Schlage locks. I'll keep you all posted with what Schlage says, but I am finished spending money on repeaters for locks that don't work reliably with them. Wayne 2
Jimbo.Automates Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 Great information and effort. Which Schlage lock do you have?Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
IT Solutions Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 @wdhille After your post, we gave up on using Schlage locks with Z-Wave repeaters. Thank you for convincing us to stop throwing in good money after bad. Are you able to get the two ISYs to work together so you can add programs into one ISY that controls a lock that is talking to the other ISY? Do you have any issues with the two different Z-Wave networks conflicting, or are they too far apart for that? We have 3 Schlage locks and because of metal doors, we would need three ISYs, one for each lock, to be able to control them. Two could be in electronics closets, but the 3rd would need to be in the garage to have line of site to the inside of the lock where the Z-Wave is located. Definitely less than ideal.
wdhille Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 1) We have four Schlage BE469 ZWave locks. 2) I don't have the ISY's "talking" to each other. I will look into that. The newest ISY though controls one door and one door alone... I left the Insteon stuff on the first ISY. So I have one simple program.... Lock the darn door at night! 3) I don't believe I have any issues with the two different Z-Wave networks conflicting. There is about 75 feet of separation between them which includes two brick walls and three framed/drywall walls. I am absolutely certain that installing the Z-Wave locks in a metal door is not ideal for RF link margin... What I would like to see is a RF pattern analysis of the ISY, the repeaters and the locks so we know where the dead spots are and we know which direction the antennas work best in. I'm old school... and years ago I did RF work... and I would never install a system that had an RF link without knowing how to point the antenna.... Sadly, the antennas on the Z-Wave (and other home automation stuff) while might be designed as omnidirectional antennas, they are not..... So on an amusing note... I called Schlage yesterday to discuss after Timothy in tech support stopped answering my emails.... The first thing the recording says is "Your time is important to us". Well after ten minutes of pushing buttons I had the opportunity to speak to a customer service representative. They're of course nice and polite, but they are not technically qualified to help. The more I learn about these the more I believe they have issues because they try to use strong encryption and there may be timing issues when using the locks with a repeater. If I was to start over, I might buy WiFi Locks or Bluetooth locks that require a nearby device to connect to my network. Last year I bought a WiFi lock, but sent it back because it would only work if I allowed it to connect to the "Cloud", which after many years working in the cyber industry I still can't find where that cloud might be located and who controls it.... The reason I like the UD/ISY is I can run it on a closed network and I can keep all of my IOT things on an isolated VLAN that can't phone home.... Sorry for the long post... but in retrospect, after many many hours on this, and many many dollars... it would have been cheaper, faster and easier if I had just bought four ISY's and ran CAT6 to each door... I'll bet Michel might even cut me a brake if I bought four at once... Wayne
IT Solutions Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 8 minutes ago, wdhille said: after many years working in the cyber industry I still can't find where that cloud might be located and who controls it.... Wayne LOL! This exactly why we maintain two data centers that we 100% control and have many layered security protocols to keep "the cloud" out. I do not enable remote access on the ISY. If we want to access it remotely, we will control that through my firewall. We also use ELK M1Gs because they are NOT controlled by "the cloud". When customers ask me about "the cloud", I ask them, "You mean like AOL email?" After all, AOL Email is "in the cloud". Cloud services have their uses, but they are not for everyone. If one is looking for security, the cloud is NOT the place to go.
Jimbo.Automates Posted February 24, 2021 Posted February 24, 2021 1) We have four Schlage BE469 ZWave locks. Thanks, I have had 2 of those working just fine and pretty sure one has to go thru a repeater, an old aeotec but I'll check next week when I get home. I asked model because I've been considering a new 469ZP for my lake house but one of the doors is pretty far from the ISY so likely needs a repeater.Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Bumbershoot Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 23 hours ago, Jimbo said: I have had 2 of those working just fine and pretty sure one has to go thru a repeater These locks do work with repeaters. I only have one older Schlage BE469, and it successfully uses an Aeotec Siren as a repeater. With the latest ISY firmware, it operates reliably. Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:32 : [ZW-SHOW ] ---------------------------------------------- Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:32 : [ZW-SHOW ] ZW 024 Schlage Door Lock Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:32 : [ZW-SHOW ] ZW024_1 uid=24 security=S0 type=4.64.3 mid=59 tid=25409 pid=20548 model=2 Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:32 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x22 V1 APPLICATION_STATUS Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:32 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x72 V1 MANUFACTURER_SPECIFIC Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:32 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x7A V2 FIRMWARE_UPDATE_MD Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:32 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x98 V1 SECURITY Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:32 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x86 V1 VERSION Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:32 : [ZW-SHOW ] - Secure Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:32 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x5D V2 ANTITHEFT Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:32 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x85 V1 ASSOCIATION Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:32 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x20 V1 BASIC Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:32 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x80 V1 BATTERY Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:32 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x70 V1 CONFIGURATION Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:32 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x62 V2 DOOR_LOCK Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:32 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x71 V3 NOTIFICATION Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:32 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x63 V1 USER_CODE Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:32 : [ZW-SHOW ] - xEF V0 MARK Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:32 : [ZW-SHOW ] Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:32 : [ZW-SHOW ] Last working route from ISY to Node 24 - ZW 024 Schlage Door Lock Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:32 : [ZW-SHOW ] - Node 7 - ZW 007 Siren Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:32 : [ZW-SHOW ] Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:33 : [ZW-SHOW ] Node 24 - ZW 024 Schlage Door Lock has the following neighbors ... Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:54 : [ZW-SHOW ] Thu 02/25/2021 06:57:54 : [ZW-SHOW ] ----------------------------------------------
IT Solutions Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 @Bumbershoot Would you please share the exact model number of the repeater you are using that works with Schlage locks. Thank you.
Bumbershoot Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) 58 minutes ago, IT Solutions said: @Bumbershoot Would you please share the exact model number of the repeater you are using that works with Schlage locks. Thank you. It's an old product, an Aeotec Gen 5 Siren, which I got in early 2016. Edited February 25, 2021 by Bumbershoot
IT Solutions Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 @Bumbershoot Thank you. I ordered a Aeotec version 6 and version 7 repeater to try. I'll let everyone know how that goes.
wdhille Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 I'm be interested in hearing about your results. I have six Gen6 and six Gen7 Aeotec ZWave Plus repeaters. I believe the repeaters work great... My Schlage locks certainly don't like them. OR the Dome repeaters.... Wayne
IT Solutions Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 @wdhille Thank you for that information. I just ordered a Gen5 Siren, exactly what @Bumbershoot has that is working. Hopefully something will work for us. @Bumbershootdo you have metal doors? Metal doors area big problem with these locks.
Bumbershoot Posted February 25, 2021 Posted February 25, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, IT Solutions said: @wdhille Thank you for that information. I just ordered a Gen5 Siren, exactly what @Bumbershoot has that is working. Hopefully something will work for us. @Bumbershootdo you have metal doors? Metal doors area big problem with these locks. No metal doors here. Stick frame house, probably 4 walls and 30' between the siren and lock, and the siren is probably 25' from the ISY. EDIT: The door the lock is installed in is metal clad. I just checked. Edited February 25, 2021 by Bumbershoot
sandryseibert Posted March 5, 2021 Posted March 5, 2021 (edited) @IT Solutions, I live on a house made entirely by brick and concrete walls and I had the exactly same issue as you. On my case I solved the communication issue by having a repeater installed on my roof close to every single door of my house. But that's not all, after configure my devices which of course I did it close to ISY, I noticed that the devices couldn't reach my ISY even if I leave it close to a repeater that I know is working. Only after play a lot I figure that I have to use the Heal Z-Wave to make sure the repeater is waiting for that node. Once I got them all working I never played anymore. Another thing that helps a lot is to power the battery devices through USB instead of use battery. All powered devices also become a repeater if you add them to your network powered through its USB port. Sandry Edited March 5, 2021 by sandryseibert 1
oper8 Posted May 27, 2021 Posted May 27, 2021 I had nothing but trouble with the Schlage BE469ZP Lock. Stay away from this version. I also have a BE469NX and it does work perfectly fine.
DaveF Posted June 2, 2021 Posted June 2, 2021 That's interesting as I have a BE469NX that has been nothing but trouble since I moved to the 500 series board. If I exclude it and re-include it (I removed it from the door and held it near the ISY), it seems to report the first two local control actions. i.e. I can unlock it and the admin console will show the unlock action, then I can lock it and the console will show that, but after that it will no longer show local control actions. I can -usually- lock/unlock it from the admin console. It may be related, but when it is in this state it seems to loose it's association groups. If I show the zwave information, I get this at the end: Wed 06/02/2021 08:34:29 AM : [ZWAVE-TE ] [85/05] Assoc Groupings Get ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE To=0x29 Wed 06/02/2021 08:34:29 AM : [ZWAVE-TX ZW041_1] [98/40] Security Nonce Get ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE To=0x29 Wed 06/02/2021 08:34:31 AM : [ZWAVE-RX ZW041_1] [98/80] Security Nonce Report - nonce=[F3187B1415E7D035] ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE From=0x29 Wed 06/02/2021 08:34:36 AM : [ZW-TX-FAILED] enc=Ok uid=41.0 cmd=0x85.05 ASSOCIATION Wed 06/02/2021 08:34:36 AM : [ZWAVE-TX-E ] ZWAVE-WAIT Waiting for retry 1 of 2 Wed 06/02/2021 08:34:36 AM : [ZWAVE-TE ] [85/05] Assoc Groupings Get ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE To=0x29 Wed 06/02/2021 08:34:36 AM : [ZWAVE-TX ZW041_1] [98/40] Security Nonce Get ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE To=0x29 Wed 06/02/2021 08:34:38 AM : [ZWAVE-RX ZW041_1] [98/80] Security Nonce Report - nonce=[015D6EF044CEBF15] ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE From=0x29 Wed 06/02/2021 08:34:43 AM : [ZW-TX-FAILED] enc=Ok uid=41.0 cmd=0x85.05 ASSOCIATION Wed 06/02/2021 08:34:43 AM : [ZWAVE-TX-E ] ZWAVE-WAIT Waiting for retry 2 of 2 Wed 06/02/2021 08:34:44 AM : [ZWAVE-TE ] [85/05] Assoc Groupings Get ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE To=0x29 Wed 06/02/2021 08:34:44 AM : [ZWAVE-TX ZW041_1] [98/40] Security Nonce Get ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE To=0x29 Wed 06/02/2021 08:34:45 AM : [ZWAVE-RX ZW041_1] [98/80] Security Nonce Report - nonce=[1696BC7CE78AE6AD] ACK,AUTO,EXPLORE From=0x29 Wed 06/02/2021 08:34:50 AM : [ZW-TX-FAILED] enc=Ok uid=41.0 cmd=0x85.05 ASSOCIATION Wed 06/02/2021 08:34:50 AM : [ZWAVE-ASSOC-INFO] Association info 1302 Wed 06/02/2021 08:34:50 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] Node 41 - Front Door Lock cannot retrieve association groups Wed 06/02/2021 08:34:50 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] Wed 06/02/2021 08:34:50 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] ---------------------------------------------- I've tried update neighbors, synchronize, and repair links. Repair links sometimes leaves the lock with a "data needs to be written" icon
wingman1487 Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 I have 3 of the BE469NX and have absolutely nothing but problems with them. They are the most finicky pieces of junk, I can never rely on them, they never listen to any commands and are constantly in an "Unknown" state. It's so finicky that sometimes when it's in an "Unknown" state I can just hit Query and it'll get the status, sometimes not. I've re-built my ZWave network several times thinking that "oh this is going to be the one, they'll work with this update" only to be sorely disappointed. The last time I reset and built the network I had to take the ISY to each door to even get them to start communicating. I've got an Aeotec repeater and Siren in the mix just for good measure and nothing seems to work. Sadly, I'm with everyone else here, I'm so tired of throwing money at ZWave door locks (I've tried a few) and other items just to be disappointed. Is there seriously no good door locks out there that will reliable communicate with the ISY? 1
KSchex Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 @wingman1487Thanks for the post. Several times over the last year I have almost pushed the buy button for a Schlage. I certainly am not looking to waste a lot of time calling vendors. Thanks for the reminder. Does UDI have any thoughts?
smacbride Posted June 14, 2021 Posted June 14, 2021 I'm using the Schlage BE469ZP and have never had any issues with it. It's been over a year now. During the winter I upgraded to the new 500 series chip in my ISY box and it still works fine. It gets used with my iPhone app at least twice a day, never had any issues. The only thing I couldn't figure out was having the ISY respond to an intrusion alarm on the lock.
wingman1487 Posted June 18, 2021 Posted June 18, 2021 I wish I had your luck. Question for you, do you have any repeaters or devices that would repeat in the middle or are your locks being accessed directly from the ISY with no other ZWave repeaters in the way?
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