Insteon KeypadLinc - BUTTONS TOGGLE MODE

[CJVann]

I have several Insteon KeypadLincs with a button that's set to NON-TOGGLE (On or Off) to control a scene.  I had the button LED OFF when I set it to Non-Toggle, however, whenever I press the button, the LED light turns ON and stays that way with each button press (Doesn't matter if it's set to Non-Toggle ON, or Non-Toggle OFF). 

Is there a way to have the button LED remain OFF at all times, or are all non-toggle buttons always lit?  The ISY status for this button (5-button keypad, Button D) shows it's OFF, even after a Query, but it is really ON/lit.   

NOTE: If I manually turn the scene off with the ISY as the 'Controller', THEN the LED will turn off because I can set the button's status to OFF in the scene.  But if I press the button to activate the scene, the LED turns ON because the action is "default" and can't be changed that I can see - is there a way?

 

[lilyoyo1]

Non toggle on=buttons on 

Non toggle off= buttons off 

That's how it's built into the device. You can always create a scene, add the button to that scene, and then create a program that turns that scene off anytime you physically press the button after a second or 2

 

 

 

 

[CJVann]

Thanks - I have them set to Non-Toggle OFF, but the button LEDs turn ON if you press them.  I do have a program to turn that LED off if the button is pressed, but it seems like the scene should control that, but the scene value is "default" (whatever that is).

[lilyoyo1]

18 minutes ago, CJVann said:

Thanks - I have them set to Non-Toggle OFF, but the button LEDs turn ON if you press them.  I do have a program to turn that LED off if the button is pressed, but it seems like the scene should control that, but the scene value is "default" (whatever that is).

Change default to off and see what happens

[oberkc]

When you press the button (regardless of the LED backlight), does the ISY think it turns on or off?

I wonder if you could configure this manually.  I see instructions in the user manual.

[CJVann]

There's no way to change 'default' since that button is the Controller for the scene.   All of those normal options at the bottom of the screen are missing for a scene Controller button.

Yes, the button is sending DOF 0, and the LED turns on.  

Great idea, I will try programming the button outside of the ISY.

 

[CJVann]

Manually programming it to Non-Toggle OFF still causes the LED to turn on when sending an off.

I finally got 2 keypads to work, but I'm not positive how.   The second keypad I ended up deleting the scene completely, recreating it with the control button set to turn ON, and then setting the keypad's toggle mode to Non-toggle off.  Then I changed the scene such that the control button turns Off, and then it saved it such that the button LED blinks on then off again when I press it.  Very tricky and confusing.  

[lilyoyo1]

I don't use non toggle options. I keep mine in Toggle mode, set device to their proper state and use programs to turn off the kpl backlight when necessary

[oberkc]

I have a scene just like CJVann is trying to create.  KPL-B button is controller.  Other devices responders.  KPL button in "non-toggle (off)" mode.  Pressing the button causes all the responders to turn off and the button light flashes a couple of times and turns off.  Works great.

@CJVann ... it sure sounds as if you are doing things like I did.  The only thing coming to mind is that yours is likely a newer keypad and it seems to me that smarthome can sometimes make "feature" changes over time.  Given the same results when manually configured, my best guess is that this is an issue with the keypad, itself.  Were this me, I would remove and factory reset one of the switches.  Once reset, manually configure the button.  If the button stays on when toggled, I would conclude this to be a new feature or faulty device (however you look at things.)  If it turns off when toggled, I would factory reset again, add back to the ISY, and configure the button via the admin panel.  Does it still turn off when toggled?  If so, add the scene members.  Do things change?

I would be breaking this into small steps to identify at what point the behavior deviates from the expected.

[andrew67]

I'm fighting this right now too...  And the entire concept that this question needs to be asked 15 years after these things were first sold is INSANE.  I first programmed my system in 2011, and it was clear as mud back then.  Its not any better now.  I actually gave up and only ended up using a total of 9 buttons in my whole house out of 31 keypads I installed because it was impossible to get them to work right, and even harder to figure out why.

I just tried to create scenes using lilyoyo1's method, and now tried switching back to the Non-Toggle method, and BOTH fail miserably.  And because its Insteon, and communication is slower than typing it in manually, you can't ask any questions.  I just factory reset my 3 keypad links and am trying again to restore them since I am out of things to try other than "gee idon't know have you re-installed your operating system yet today?" 

We need the ISY to show the movie of a burning log during device writes instead of that little progress bar.  I usually go grab a gin and tonic while it works, and if this keeps up I'll have a drinking problem.

I still don't know exactly what happens when I press a button marked Non-toggle[on], and how to effectively use that in a scene.....  The entire idea that buttons can't be used without programs to fixup their states is CRAZY.

 

[hart2hart]

Please forgive if I’m missing something more involved for keypad buttons but...

I create a scene, add a lamplinc (could be anything) as a controller, add a button on a keypadlinc as a controller and add a button on a remotelinc as a controller. If I press the button on the keypadlinc it lights up and the lamplinc comes on. If I press button on remotelinc depending on type (4 device will come on with on button or off with off button) (8 device toggle version will toggle based on what it’s last known state but within two presses turn lamplinc opposite of what it is). The kepadlinc button and lamplinc stay in sync. You can press buttons on lamplinc and keypadlinc button will follow.

The top and bottom late button are a dimmer or a switch and act as such on 6 button version. On the 8 button version, The A button is a toggle for one light but the load wire can be capped and it will act like the others.

When using a 6 button to control a ceiling light and fan there are very specific instructions to follow so it moves fan between off low medium and high which are a bit convoluted but it’s documented and works great. I added a program so fan off button turn fan off and then it goes off instead of being on to indicate the fan is off. ...But that’s my preference.


What am I missing so I can help. Are you wanting/needing the button beside each other to be one for on and the other for off?

[lilyoyo1]

18 hours ago, andrew67 said:

I'm fighting this right now too...  And the entire concept that this question needs to be asked 15 years after these things were first sold is INSANE.  I first programmed my system in 2011, and it was clear as mud back then.  Its not any better now.  I actually gave up and only ended up using a total of 9 buttons in my whole house out of 31 keypads I installed because it was impossible to get them to work right, and even harder to figure out why.

I just tried to create scenes using lilyoyo1's method, and now tried switching back to the Non-Toggle method, and BOTH fail miserably.  And because its Insteon, and communication is slower than typing it in manually, you can't ask any questions.  I just factory reset my 3 keypad links and am trying again to restore them since I am out of things to try other than "gee idon't know have you re-installed your operating system yet today?" 

We need the ISY to show the movie of a burning log during device writes instead of that little progress bar.  I usually go grab a gin and tonic while it works, and if this keeps up I'll have a drinking problem.

I still don't know exactly what happens when I press a button marked Non-toggle[on], and how to effectively use that in a scene.....  The entire idea that buttons can't be used without programs to fixup their states is CRAZY.

 

What exactly are you having issues with? What are you trying to accomplish and what is actually happening? Without details it's hard to help you get on the right path. Too many people have working systems within the parameters they're confined to so most likely it's human error vs the system itself.