30% Off Insteon

[apostolakisl]

Finally a real sale.  I just ordered a bunch of dimmers and keypads.  Only the basic stuff is on sale.  They took my order with nothing about out of stock or low inventory or anything.  Of course until it arrives at my house, I can't really say.

[upstatemike]

Only basic stock because that is all they have.

They say in the ad that they will not be monitoring stock levels (probably already let go the staff that would do that) So if they run out they will cancel your order after the fact. Any order you place will go through right now regardless if they have stock left ot not.

They also say there will be no backorders which I take to mean they will not be reordering this stuff once it is gone.

It also says 2 days only which I take to mean "we want to get what we can of the good stuff we have left and will probably sell the dregs ovber Labor Day at an even steeper discount."

That is my interpretation anyway... you might read something else into it.

Edited August 26, 2021 by upstatemike

[silverton38]

I think they are trying to get me to buy some stuff. I said and will stick to my boycott until they have the serial PLM in stock. Normally I would have purchased a lot of these but I will stick it out.

[upstatemike]

You are boycotting a company in the process of liquidating itself? Seems like a good time to grab some spare switches to have against future shortages... lots of posts to help ressurect a failed PLM if it comes to that. I'm more for practical self interest than trying to impart some kind of message to a company that is clearly not interested to (or maybe not able to) pay attention to me anyway.

[silverton38]

12 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

You are boycotting a company in the process of liquidating itself? Seems like a good time to grab some spare switches to have against future shortages... lots of posts to help ressurect a failed PLM if it comes to that. I'm more for practical self interest than trying to impart some kind of message to a company that is clearly not interested to (or maybe not able to) pay attention to me anyway.

They are releasing an entire new line of Nokia switches. They are not going out of business but simply not putting a priority in making the serial PLM. I am big purchaser and integrator with Smarthome but I require serial PLMs to do this. 

[silverton38]

Here is their new line for your reference. 

 

https://www.nokia.com/shop/discover-smart-lighting/

 

[upstatemike]

8 minutes ago, silverton38 said:

They are releasing an entire new line of Nokia switches. They are not going out of business but simply not putting a priority in making the serial PLM. I am big purchaser and integrator with Smarthome but I require serial PLMs to do this. 

Do you think you will be able to use the new Nokia switches with PLMs even if they were available? 

[silverton38]

They will not work yet but I am fighting with them to hand over the information to Universal Devices. I am actually an early buyer of the Nokia switches (before the boycott). Those switches with an ISY and this is a game changer.

[upstatemike]

1 minute ago, silverton38 said:

They will not work yet but I am fighting with them to hand over the information to Universal Devices...

Yes, that will probably happen.

[silverton38]

1 minute ago, upstatemike said:

Yes, that will probably happen.

We can hope. I love the technology and I really want it to succeed. I love pressing my all off and everything instantly turns off....only Insteon can do this right now.

 

[larryllix]

We can hope. I love the technology and I really want it to succeed. I love pressing my all off and everything instantly turns off....only Insteon can do this right now.
 

Likely a bad example as SmartHome has been trying eliminate the All on scene from new devices. OTOH maybe the All Off wasn't included in that fiasco.

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

[Techman]

Exclusions limits and order minimums apply

30% Off Insteon

Offer Details: Use code YESTHIRTY at checkout for a 30% discount on all in-stock Insteon products; including already discounted Insteon products. Some products have variations, such as color, which may display a unique price when selected on the quick-view popup or the product page when adding to the cart. All prices and discounts can be confirmed at checkout. Discount is not applicable to any other products and is only available while supplies last. Due to the popularity of this type of sale, our system may not be able to keep up with inventory levels in real time; as such, if an item goes out of stock, but you have already placed your order, you will be notified that the order is being canceled. No backorders will be fulfilled. This offer does not apply to nor can it be combined with any previous purchase, promotion, or discount; and is subject to change or termination at any time. TWO DAYS ONLY - offer valid Thursday August 26th, 2021 through Friday August 27th, 2021. Smarthome reserves the right to change or modify this offer at any time.

[apostolakisl]

1 hour ago, silverton38 said:

Here is their new line for your reference. 

 

https://www.nokia.com/shop/discover-smart-lighting/

 

So do these use the same Insteon protocol?  Reading this https://www.nokia.com/blog/why-were-collaborating-with-smartlabs-to-launch-nokia-smart-lighting/  tells me it is the same technology.  But they could have changed a few details that make it incompatible, you know, just to be a PITA.  Nokia is a pretty good sized company that I am confident would do some due diligence and not work with Smartlabs if they were going under.  But, then again, GM was hours away from burying themselves in a pile of worthless debt when they almost bought Nikola right before they were outed as a scam.  But then again, you know, GM, so...

[apostolakisl]

I just got a tracking number, so it would seem SH has put my switches in a box.  I ordered 7 swithlincs and 2 kpls.  

I looked at those Nokia switches, they really really look like they are Insteon switches in different clothes.

[upstatemike]

44 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

So do these use the same Insteon protocol?  Reading this https://www.nokia.com/blog/why-were-collaborating-with-smartlabs-to-launch-nokia-smart-lighting/  tells me it is the same technology.  But they could have changed a few details that make it incompatible, you know, just to be a PITA.  Nokia is a pretty good sized company that I am confident would do some due diligence and not work with Smartlabs if they were going under.  But, then again, GM was hours away from burying themselves in a pile of worthless debt when they almost bought Nikola right before they were outed as a scam.  But then again, you know, GM, so...

I think Smartlabs will stay in business to design/support the Nokia product line. They don't actually need Smarthome to keep selling products or stay in business while they are doing that.

[silverton38]

I am not buying out of love for the product. It will die if they abandon their high end customers. It would be nice to be a buyer right now.....but I am not. Maybe they will give us an ETA on the serial modem tomorrow and then they will get my order.

[upstatemike]

43 minutes ago, silverton38 said:

Maybe they will give us an ETA on the serial modem tomorrow and then they will get my order.

I think you can count on the 12th of never as a solid ETA.

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, silverton38 said:

I am not buying out of love for the product. It will die if they abandon their high end customers. It would be nice to be a buyer right now.....but I am not. Maybe they will give us an ETA on the serial modem tomorrow and then they will get my order.

What high end customers? No serial PLM will be coming anytime soon

[apostolakisl]

5 hours ago, upstatemike said:

I think Smartlabs will stay in business to design/support the Nokia product line. They don't actually need Smarthome to keep selling products or stay in business while they are doing that.

From what I can see, these are virtually identical to Insteon products.  They barely look any different and appear to function precisely the same.  The price is almost the same at $5 more.  The dial switch is interesting, not sure if I would like it or not, depends on how it works.  I like the idea of being able to spin directly do to a brightness level, but not sure if that will work on a linked switch.  I don't think the current Insteon protocol has any support for that since it doesn't stream a setting, it sends a setting and lets the local device get there based on previous programming.  Fact is, though, I would almost never use that feature.  Anyway, unless Nokia is going to put a big marketing campaign behind these switches using their brand recognition and world wide marketing machine, then it won't benefit Smartlabs anymore than selling Insteon.  At present, they are only for sale through Smartlabs AFAIKT.  Nokia is a more known name and all, but they aren't an Apple or Samsung.  Nokia name carries more weight than Insteon, but to me, Nokia isn't really a name that makes me stand up and take note.  I kind of feel like a lot of people don't even know who Nokia is, at least in the US.  I'm pretty sure I don't know anyone who owns a single Nokia product.  An internet search tells me they have .7% of the cell phone market, and I have no idea what else they might even sell.  Maybe Nokia is more dominant in other parts of the world and that might leverage the Smartlabs protocol into those markets.

[lilyoyo1]

8 hours ago, apostolakisl said:

From what I can see, these are virtually identical to Insteon products.  They barely look any different and appear to function precisely the same.  The price is almost the same at $5 more.  The dial switch is interesting, not sure if I would like it or not, depends on how it works.  I like the idea of being able to spin directly do to a brightness level, but not sure if that will work on a linked switch.  I don't think the current Insteon protocol has any support for that since it doesn't stream a setting, it sends a setting and lets the local device get there based on previous programming.  Fact is, though, I would almost never use that feature.  Anyway, unless Nokia is going to put a big marketing campaign behind these switches using their brand recognition and world wide marketing machine, then it won't benefit Smartlabs anymore than selling Insteon.  At present, they are only for sale through Smartlabs AFAIKT.  Nokia is a more known name and all, but they aren't an Apple or Samsung.  Nokia name carries more weight than Insteon, but to me, Nokia isn't really a name that makes me stand up and take note.  I kind of feel like a lot of people don't even know who Nokia is, at least in the US.  I'm pretty sure I don't know anyone who owns a single Nokia product.  An internet search tells me they have .7% of the cell phone market, and I have no idea what else they might even sell.  Maybe Nokia is more dominant in other parts of the world and that might leverage the Smartlabs protocol into those markets.

I've talked about the similarities on a few posts. The basic insteon commands are still the same. On/off, dim/brighten. They can be manually added to other insteon devices as a controller or responder and work exactly the same as normal insteon devices. The dial would be dimmable while the paddle would be a relay switch. 

What you would NOT be able to do is change the modes of the devices. The paddle would not be able to dim and the dial would NOT be able to be used as a relay. 

They can be added to the Isy but would show up as an unsupported device. You would not be able to change the modules from dimmer to relay (and vice versa). The Isy also would not get status when manually controlled. However, it can turn them on/off and dim (where applicable). The same applies with the new hub. Standard devices can be added to it. However, it will not link them to new devices or receive status. 

When it comes to the kpl, it adds to the Isy as an unsupported device but only the load shows up. The other buttons do not. The same thing applies when it comes to receiving status and changing modes. You also would not be able to change the primary button

In regards to device firmware updates, since those come from insteon servers, only the hub can push updates to the devices themselves. With official support from the Isy, that may be possible but i don't know. 

Nokia isn't just a smartphone maker. They make network equipment for telecoms, patent licensing and other iot stuff. With that said, this is not a Nokia product line. Smartlabs/insteon is only licensing the name from them. They have nothing to do with the actual product itself except for their technical expertise with some stuff

[lilyoyo1]

18 hours ago, larryllix said:

Likely a bad example as SmartHome has been trying eliminate the All on scene from new devices. OTOH maybe the All Off wasn't included in that fiasco.

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk
 

All off can be achieved in multiple ways, not just using the all on/off commands

[silverton38]

What I like about the Nokia switches is the look and feel. It is new and exciting and perfect for some modern style homes that I am working on. Insteon switches look great 10 years ago but they are starting to age. I have purchased one of everything in the new Nokia line (pre-order) and I will test them fully. 

What Smartlabs needs to understand is that you need to integrate with other products such as ELK Security Systems. If they are looking at Lutron as an example then they are designed to integrate; even the Caseta line has a Hub Pro that allows integration.

They have a real simple formula here. Stock the serial PLM as priority device, work with Universal Devices on the product, and then sell tons of this product. This will also stop the drain of customers to other products. Nokia can be an exciting new chapter or it can be a dud on a discontinued line. It is their choice.

[upstatemike]

One place where Lutron really falls down is in supporting color bulbs. There is no provision for color in the Clear-Connect protocol and the Caseta Pro hub doen't seem to have any tight integration with Hue or Lifx or any other color platform. I think Insteon/Nokia need to find a way to embrace color either by creating an Insteon protocol color bulb or putting firmawre in place for an Insteon keypad to control color products on other protocols.

I know Polisy can bridge this gap (as can other hubs and platforms) but it is almost in spite of Lutron or Smartlabs rather than in cooperation with them. Both companies need to acknowledge that color is a thing that needs some official support.

I also realize this is getting off topic from the 30% off Insteon sale.... time to get back to the Insteon Discontinued thread!

[lilyoyo1]

28 minutes ago, silverton38 said:

What I like about the Nokia switches is the look and feel. It is new and exciting and perfect for some modern style homes that I am working on. Insteon switches look great 10 years ago but they are starting to age. I have purchased one of everything in the new Nokia line (pre-order) and I will test them fully. 

What Smartlabs needs to understand is that you need to integrate with other products such as ELK Security Systems. If they are looking at Lutron as an example then they are designed to integrate; even the Caseta line has a Hub Pro that allows integration.

They have a real simple formula here. Stock the serial PLM as priority device, work with Universal Devices on the product, and then sell tons of this product. This will also stop the drain of customers to other products. Nokia can be an exciting new chapter or it can be a dud on a discontinued line. It is their choice.

Insteon isn't trying to be lutron. They want to be themselves. They are not looking to be in the market for those who want advanced integrated systems. They are catering to a specific part of the population who doesn't know about the Isy and are not looking for a system such as the Isy. They want to capture new users not chase old. 

Eventually they may open things to 3rd party systems, but right now while they are trying to start new, it's about them and building their brand.

I like the new switches. They do look and feel really good. They aren't nearly as luxurious as Control4/Savant level but at their price point, they look fantastic. Definitely would fit into the decor of a midrange home. I can't say they fit well in a true high end luxury home though. Not when you compare them to other true luxury brands. 

[apostolakisl]

2 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I've talked about the similarities on a few posts. The basic insteon commands are still the same. On/off, dim/brighten. They can be manually added to other insteon devices as a controller or responder and work exactly the same as normal insteon devices. The dial would be dimmable while the paddle would be a relay switch. 

What you would NOT be able to do is change the modes of the devices. The paddle would not be able to dim and the dial would NOT be able to be used as a relay. 

They can be added to the Isy but would show up as an unsupported device. You would not be able to change the modules from dimmer to relay (and vice versa). The Isy also would not get status when manually controlled. However, it can turn them on/off and dim (where applicable). The same applies with the new hub. Standard devices can be added to it. However, it will not link them to new devices or receive status. 

When it comes to the kpl, it adds to the Isy as an unsupported device but only the load shows up. The other buttons do not. The same thing applies when it comes to receiving status and changing modes. You also would not be able to change the primary button

In regards to device firmware updates, since those come from insteon servers, only the hub can push updates to the devices themselves. With official support from the Isy, that may be possible but i don't know. 

Nokia isn't just a smartphone maker. They make network equipment for telecoms, patent licensing and other iot stuff. With that said, this is not a Nokia product line. Smartlabs/insteon is only licensing the name from them. They have nothing to do with the actual product itself except for their technical expertise with some stuff

So, does this mean you have actually had samples to play with?  I guess the paddle switches are not push and hold dimmers and do not have ramp rates?  So only the dial units are dimmers?  I don't like that idea.  Are they at least a push click for on/off?  I don't think anyone would want to spin the dial to turn the light on/off.

It sounds like they use the same Insteon protocol.  The issue with ISY is just that they haven't published all the details?  Reverse engineering I think is possible with the Insteon protocol so I assume UD could do it if they wanted to put the time in.

As far as the look.  Insteon looks like your standard decora switch.  While the Nokia has a more refined look, there aren't any "dumb switches" that have that look.  So you would have to either do 100% Nokia switches or, ironically, mix and match which will look quite the opposite of refined.