Bulk import Insteon devices

[TheRydad]

I have about 150 Insteon switches and lamp modules in my house. They are all linked to an Insteon Hub for now, but I want to move everything to my new ISY 994i/Pro. Insteon support says they can send me a list of all of my Insteon devices and the names I have given them in the Insteon app.

 

Is it possible to do some kind of bulk import of devices with names?

Is it possible to use the ISY to bulk delete all existing links and then recreate them manually in the admin console*?

Is there a command line or scripting engine that can be used to set this stuff up in ISY?

 

Thanks for any help and guidance anyone can provide!

 

-R

 

*- Side note: There are a lot of really weird links that my electrician made. To be fair, he had never installed any Insteon switches before, but he wanted to get the 3-way setups working so I showed him how to do the multi-way manual linking on switches. A lot of bizarre things appear to have happened while he was "learning" how it worked. A bunch of three way switches were only setup in one direction. I also keep finding weird links that must have been accidentally setup. For example, turning on a light in the kitchen also turns on a floodlight in the driveway (but not vice-versa).

[MrBill]

You're not going to like the answer... but the best answer is: 1) Factory reset every device and 2) manually add it to the new system.   The problem is that you're not just adding a device to ISY, the problem is that Links in every device need to be read as well as written/re-written.  People that have added devices and scanned the links in the devices always end up with bad links, phantom links, full PLM's etc  The best way is time consuming, but it will save you time in the long run.

[TheRydad]

Thanks, @MrBill. That's kind of what I figured. If I manually add a device in ISY and choose the "delete existing links" option, will that erase all links in the device and effectively "reset" it?

I feel like that would at least eliminate me having to walk around to every device and factory reset it. I assume that would leave the device with only a link to the PLM in its link table, but I am not certain about that assumption.

Is the correct way to create a 3-way/4-way configuration by putting all devices in a scene, and make them all controllers and responders for the scene? I want them to all respond with the correct LED level indicator when touching a physical switch and when calling them from Alexa, etc.

Is there some kind of way to tag or name a device in the mobile app? I didn't see a way to do it, but that would allow me to figure out which device is which without having to walk back and forth to my computer or laptop every time.

Is there any kind of "local API" that would let me script some of this through SSH or http calls from a desktop machine?

I appreciate the guidance as I get more familiar with this product. It will certainly give me a lot of the scheduling and other flexibility I was missing when just using the Hub.

[lilyoyo1]

In addition to what mrbill said, bringing in old links will cause you more work than simply adding devices 1 at a time. This forum is littered with people who looked for the short cuts only to spend more time than they saved having to clean up the mess the quick way made. 

If you think about it, with 150 devices, if it were possible to bulk add, all you'll have are a bunch of numbers showing up in the system. How will you know what they are? Now you'll need to go around 1 at a time to test and figure out what each and every device is in order to rename them. 

By starting with 1 room at a time, you can factory reset to clear any potential bad links, add your devices from that room, rename it, and add it to the corresponding scenes (if already set up). 

[lilyoyo1]

9 minutes ago, TheRydad said:

Thanks, @MrBill. That's kind of what I figured. If I manually add a device in ISY and choose the "delete existing links" option, will that erase all links in the device and effectively "reset" it?

I feel like that would at least eliminate me having to walk around to every device and factory reset it. I assume that would leave the device with only a link to the PLM in its link table, but I am not certain about that assumption.

Is the correct way to create a 3-way/4-way configuration by putting all devices in a scene, and make them all controllers and responders for the scene? I want them to all respond with the correct LED level indicator when touching a physical switch and when calling them from Alexa, etc.

Is there some kind of way to tag or name a device in the mobile app? I didn't see a way to do it, but that would allow me to figure out which device is which without having to walk back and forth to my computer or laptop every time.

Is there any kind of "local API" that would let me script some of this through SSH or http calls from a desktop machine?

I appreciate the guidance as I get more familiar with this product. It will certainly give me a lot of the scheduling and other flexibility I was missing when just using the Hub.

Deleting existing links is not the same as a factory reset. A factory reset is the only way to guarantee no additional links are stored in the device. 

There is no way to tag a device. Even if there was, the insteon hub and Isy are 2 different controllers made by different companies. The Isy would not be aware of what that controller is doing. 

I recommend reading the Isy wiki and Isy cookbook prior to getting started. There's a lot of great information in both which will help you with your Isy setup. A quick Google search or Isy wiki and/or Isy cookbook will give you the links. In answer to your multi way switch question, simply add all devices as controllers and configure them for what you want them to do. 

 

[MrBill]

6 minutes ago, TheRydad said:

If I manually add a device in ISY and choose the "delete existing links" option, will that erase all links in the device and effectively "reset" it?

It's not the same thing.  Even from the factory devices should be factory reset.  As @lilyoyo1 mentions this forum is filled with people that tried to make short cuts.  Bite the bullet and do it the best way.  It goes faster than you think....  For the record I started out that way myself... i was convinced I could add all the devices to the ISY AND keep the Insteon Hub too... it only took me a few weeks to just wipe it all and start over....

9 minutes ago, TheRydad said:

Is the correct way to create a 3-way/4-way configuration by putting all devices in a scene, and make them all controllers and responders for the scene?

Yes.  One notable difference is Hub to ISY tho is in the ISY you just designate it as a controllers. In the ISY Controllers are automatically considered Responders, unlike the Insteon Hub were you need to use "both".

12 minutes ago, TheRydad said:

Is there some kind of way to tag or name a device in the mobile app? I didn't see a way to do it, but that would allow me to figure out which device is which without having to walk back and forth to my computer or laptop every time.

I'm not certain exactly what you mean, but the best way to do this is take your laptop with you.  Do a room, take laptop to next room, etc.

14 minutes ago, TheRydad said:

Is there any kind of "local API" that would let me script some of this through SSH or http calls from a desktop machine?

Not really... Factory Reset is "hands on" the device.  The list of devices might help you because I think the "Input the address" method is faster than the error prone method of putting the device in linking mode and letting the ISY "find" it.

[lilyoyo1]

6 minutes ago, MrBill said:

Not really... Factory Reset is "hands on" the device.  The list of devices might help you because I think the "Input the address" method is faster than the error prone method of putting the device in linking mode and letting the ISY "find" it.

I actually prefer the start linking method vs typing in the address. 

Start linking>factory reset> linking mode>linked at 1 time

[TheRydad]

Thanks, @MrBill and @lilyoyo1. If you'll indulge me a little further, I have a couple of technical and "style" questions now that I have read up some more.

 

1. With the exception of the links created between devices and PLM, does creating an ISY scene populate the devices' link tables the same as the manual method of "put device in linking mode, press set button on other device, repeat..."? In other words, are they more or less functionally equivalent? (I am only talking about Insteon here.)

This is more of a curiosity than anything. I am trying to make sure I understand what is happening under the hood so I can have a deeper understanding of the technology architecture.

2. My understanding of the "spoken" field for devices and scenes is that this is how I will refer to the device/scene when speaking to Alexa, etc. I assume that I need to make sure that what I put in "spoken" is unique and only applied to 1 device/scene. However, I was able to give the same spoken name to 2 devices and a scene using the admin console, so that uniqueness is apparently not enforced in the UI.

When making a 3 way/4-way scene, should I apply the preferred "spoken" name to the scene? Is there a best practice for this?

3. This is more of a style thing, but I am trying to decide how I want to name everything. I think I want to give each device a name based on the load it controls and it's location in the house and on the wall. i.e. Something like "Foyer Chandelier-Entry-B2-S3" would mean the switch is in the entryway, 2nd box down, 3rd switch from left and controls the foyer chandelier. I would then use the "spoken" field referenced above to name it for Alexa purposes-"foyer chandelier" in this case. Any opinion about this approach?

 

It sounds like "device discovery" vs. "key in address" methods of adding devices is a matter of preference. I have already made some progress toward making a spreadsheet of all devices with addresses, locations, controlled load and whether the load is wired to the device or it is a 3/4-way "remote" device, so I will finish that up for documentation. I will factory reset everything and then manually key them in from my desktop using the spreadsheet. There's a bunch of rooms and locations where there isn't a great spot to set a laptop. That is why I was asking about being able to tag or name devices using the mobile app.

 

I really appreciate the time you took to answer my earlier posts. Thank you!

[MrBill]

1. They are functionally equivalent.

2. the spoken field in the device table isn't actually used.  (it might be used by mobilinc with mobilinc connect, but I've never actually used that).  Spoken for ISY with ISY portal is set later in the ISY portal.  When setting up the spoken in the portal you would want to control the scene, so that all switches will stay in sync.

3. I didn't go to that extreme naming.... I just named what I called things.   I'd suggest including a ~ in the name of devices that don't actually control a load.  It's not supported in the UDI app yet but is likely coming soon as a method to hide extra devices.  It's already viable to use that with the Univeral-devices Home Assistant Integration.

to each his own... but I found it easier to take use a "TV table" or portable table and chair to areas where there was no table for a laptop.  You can program, test, and not spend alot of time walking around.

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, TheRydad said:

Thanks, @MrBill and @lilyoyo1. If you'll indulge me a little further, I have a couple of technical and "style" questions now that I have read up some more.

 

1. With the exception of the links created between devices and PLM, does creating an ISY scene populate the devices' link tables the same as the manual method of "put device in linking mode, press set button on other device, repeat..."? In other words, are they more or less functionally equivalent? (I am only talking about Insteon here.)

This is more of a curiosity than anything. I am trying to make sure I understand what is happening under the hood so I can have a deeper understanding of the technology architecture.

2. My understanding of the "spoken" field for devices and scenes is that this is how I will refer to the device/scene when speaking to Alexa, etc. I assume that I need to make sure that what I put in "spoken" is unique and only applied to 1 device/scene. However, I was able to give the same spoken name to 2 devices and a scene using the admin console, so that uniqueness is apparently not enforced in the UI.

When making a 3 way/4-way scene, should I apply the preferred "spoken" name to the scene? Is there a best practice for this?

3. This is more of a style thing, but I am trying to decide how I want to name everything. I think I want to give each device a name based on the load it controls and it's location in the house and on the wall. i.e. Something like "Foyer Chandelier-Entry-B2-S3" would mean the switch is in the entryway, 2nd box down, 3rd switch from left and controls the foyer chandelier. I would then use the "spoken" field referenced above to name it for Alexa purposes-"foyer chandelier" in this case. Any opinion about this approach?

 

It sounds like "device discovery" vs. "key in address" methods of adding devices is a matter of preference. I have already made some progress toward making a spreadsheet of all devices with addresses, locations, controlled load and whether the load is wired to the device or it is a 3/4-way "remote" device, so I will finish that up for documentation. I will factory reset everything and then manually key them in from my desktop using the spreadsheet. There's a bunch of rooms and locations where there isn't a great spot to set a laptop. That is why I was asking about being able to tag or name devices using the mobile app.

 

I really appreciate the time you took to answer my earlier posts. Thank you!

MrBill answered your questions but Id reiterate my point about reading the cookbook. It'll answer questions you don't know you have yet and those you have. 

Another thing I'd say is keep it simple. Whether it's naming, voice control, programming etc. Looking at your example for the foyer- besides you, who will know that information and does it really matter? You can add the extra information to the notes section of you need it. MrBills example for showing multiway switches is a good one. 

Another thing about voice is that everything doesn't have to be controlled. Slap a motion sensor in your foyer or use a timer for lights to turn on/off automatically. No voice needed. The last thing you want is to try and remember 100 different things when turning stuff on and off.

[Brian H]

Every module that was controlled by a HUB. Is going to have its six digit Insteon ID. In its link database.

Factory Reset removes all links and you start with fresh slate.