ISY 5.1.1 Is Now Available

[MrBill]

54 minutes ago, Teken said:

I believe he meant to say if there was an official release vs Alpha, Beta, RC. The system would display it being available for update.

We've had one 5.x official release.  Unfortunately the releases following that are labeled "test build" for reasons unknown to us....

But now the release notification feature has been enabled for ISY on Polisy Alpha releases. So I'm quite confused about why it doesn't work for mainstream 5.x releases.  Color me confused!  (or Colour me confused! in your part of the world.)

I just think many more people would stay up to date with 5.x if the admin console notifications were once again enabled for version 5.x (something that I think perhaps could have just been overlooked!)

[Teken]

We've had one 5.x official release.  Unfortunately the releases following that are labeled "test build" for reasons unknown to us....
But now the release notification feature has been enabled for ISY on Polisy Alpha releases. So I'm quite confused about why it doesn't work for mainstream 5.x releases.  Color me confused!  (or Colour me confused! in your part of the world.)
I just think many more people would stay up to date with 5.x if the admin console notifications were once again enabled for version 5.x (something that I think perhaps could have just been overlooked!)

While I agree to some extent people often forget that the vast majority of people here like to blaze a trail. They are willing to take chances and accept a few bugs to obtain the latest and greatest.

While others want a fully tested and stable version of the same officially called out.

UDI is also following industry best practices of iterations and conformity whereby official releases are called out when and if they pass all of their internal steps to achieve the same.

[MrBill]

1 minute ago, Teken said:

While I agree to some extent people often forget that the vast majority of people here like to blaze a trail. They are willing to take chances and accept a few bugs to obtain the latest and greatest.

While others want a fully tested and stable version of the same officially called out.

UDI is also following industry best practices of iterations and conformity whereby official releases are called out when and if they pass all of their internal steps to achieve the same.

YET AGAIN... THE FEATURE HAS BEEN ENABLED ON ALPHA RELEASES OF ISY ON POLISY.  So you argument is INVALID.... perhaps Michel will have a chance to tell us.. I suspect it's overlooked....

[io_guy]

11 hours ago, larryllix said:

The Zooz is claiming programmable also. My guess would be they are clones except for possibly the antenna design. But what is a 2" antenna worth anyway?

They're all programmable but it's up to the vendor to give you maybe one or two updates in the life of the product.  And it will certainly stay on the same minor SDK level, i.e. 7.14.X or 7.15.X which is what most are on.

SiLabs releases every version of reference firmware, both standard and LR.  Updates are every couple months.  I'm on 7.16.3 right now which most 3rd party sticks will never see.

The SiLabs stick can also have it's NVM fully backed up using the standard Z-Wave PC Controller software.

[Michel Kohanim]

My goal: make this topic as wildly successful as the PLM discontinued one! So, everyone, please chime in: any topic welcome!

1. @larryllix Stocking up and reselling: not our cup of tea simply because a) our shipping rates are very high compared to Amazon or The Smartest House and b) administrative cost of handling POs, returns, etc. and c) upfront cost. In short, your cost will be much lower from Amazon or The Smartest House 
2. @simplextech Why not reference design? Because it's a reference design and not a commercial one available to all. Are we going to point customers to Mouser or Digikey? And, as @io_guy, the serial api is 100% identical to the reference design
3. @MrBill you are 100% correct: we have not had official releases since 5.3.1 for ISY994. The reason is that we are still trying to figure out the balance of when to release an official version since, the word "official" has major implications for Z-Wave Certification. i.e. every official release must be certified. And, we simply cannot afford spending $10K for Z-Wave certification for every release
4. @Teken, you are also 100% correct when you take Z-Wave cert into consideration

In short, all our Polisy/ISY releases should be considered beta for now. Should we change the first topic to mention Beta and/or remove all references to ISY994? On the other hand, if I were to do that, I would be going against my goal  ... 

With kind regards,
Michel

[MrBill]

4 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

3. @MrBill you are 100% correct: we have not had official releases since 5.3.1 for ISY994. The reason is that we are still trying to figure out the balance of when to release an official version since, the word "official" has major implications for Z-Wave Certification. i.e. every official release must be certified. And, we simply cannot afford spending $10K for Z-Wave certification for every release

Perhaps you could implement a system that identifies the difference between beta and official releases.  Its really much simpler to upgrade the ISY-994 by clicking the link in the admin console.  The current alternative of 1)watch the forum 2) figure out which file to download (not an issue for regulars, but we see people stumble) 3) download to hard drive 4) upload to ISY is just not as efficient as clicking a link in the admin console to upgrade.  Perhaps it would say "beta build 5.3.4 is now available".

[Teken]

My goal: make this topic as wildly successful as the PLM discontinued one! So, everyone, please chime in: any topic welcome!

[Teken]

YET AGAIN... THE FEATURE HAS BEEN ENABLED ON ALPHA RELEASES OF ISY ON POLISY.  So you argument is INVALID.... perhaps Michel will have a chance to tell us.. I suspect it's overlooked....

Think you got your answer.

[MrBill]

12 hours ago, larryllix said:

But what is a 2" antenna worth anyway?

It's an interesting topic.  I recently went down the zigbee rabbit hole with a blind.  Learned a lot I didn't know about zigbee, but to skip all that I'll just say the Zigbee Controller I ended up with the ConBee2 the entire device is less than 2" long.  I figured the next phase was to figure out a zigbee repeater to get the signal across the house.  I was wrong.  The signal jumps through a couple walls and rooms and ends up on the other side of the house with no problem.  In fact the shade reports back that the LQI (or Link Quality Index) in the 230's and 240's (scale is 0 to 255).  Recommended in the documentation is to use a USB male to female extension cord to move the device away from other interference.  it's actually double sided taped to the back of a flat screen monitor for a different computer, but the flat screen monitor has enough RF blocking it doesn't seem to have any negative effect on the link quality. 

Needless to say I was quite impressed with the signal produced by the tiny ConBee2 device.

For those curious... my 'automation' of the shade is unique, it closes at Sunset + 30 min and re-opens opens when both mine and my wife's phone have been disconnected from charging power.

I actually did the automation in Home Assistant because I never figured out how to get the zigbee shade controlled directly by the ISY.... but the equivalent automation can easily be done via ISY....  Use iOS Shortcuts app to update the Charger state to a State Variable either on the local network, or using the portal API interface.  (portal adds an external dependency, but removes a potential error message if the phone is not connected to wifi) (the same can be done on a Droid, but I'm less familiar with the platform... the original idea for the is automation came from someone using a droid tho).. once you have the phones pushing their charge status to ISY state variables, the programs to fire an automation when both have disconnected from charging would be

FirstProgram

If

    $sPhone1Charging = 0

OR $sPhone2Charging = 0

then

    Run NextProgram (if)

else

    (none)

---

NextProgram [Disabled]

If

         $sPhone1Charging = 0

AND $sPhone2Charging = 0

then

   Do whatever you want to do when the second phone is unplugged from charging, such as open the blinds...

else

   (none)

----

So the first program fires when either phone is unplugged, the second program is only true when neither phone is charging.

 

 

 

 

[MrBill]

52 minutes ago, Teken said:

Think you got your answer.

Yes I did, but I was asking Michel for his answer to begin with, not your speculation about what he might have meant.

[Teken]

Yes I did, but I was asking Michel for his answer to begin with, not your speculation about what he might have meant.

I’m not sure what your need to argue with people is?!? My reply was based and rooted in historical facts as to how UDI releases its firmware.

It wasn’t speculation or what I might think!

History is the victor and affirms my position - which means YOU’RE WRONG!

Go toss a salad and drink a beer and ponder that.

[asbril]

8 minutes ago, Teken said:

I’m not sure what your need to argue with people is?!? My reply was based and rooted in historical facts as to how UDI releases its firmware.

It wasn’t speculation or what I might think!

History is the victor and affirms my position - which means YOU’RE WRONG!

Go toss a salad and drink a beer and ponder that.

@Teken time for a nice cup of tea..... 

[MrBill]

43 minutes ago, Teken said:

I’m not sure what your need to argue with people is?!? My reply was based and rooted in historical facts as to how UDI releases its firmware.

It wasn’t speculation or what I might think!

History is the victor and affirms my position - which means YOU’RE WRONG!

Go toss a salad and drink a beer and ponder that.

Because @Teken I wasn't asking you to interpret... Your exact words were:

4 hours ago, Teken said:

I believe he meant to say if there was an official release vs Alpha, Beta, RC. The system would display it being available for update.

As you might have noticed I asked if he was aware that the upgrade display feature didn't work in v5.x.  Michel's answer about official releases and Z-wave certification turned out to be just about what I assumed.. but that had never been stated by UDI.  Once that is on the table I could follow thru with my secondary question of could the feature be enabled stating that a BETA release was available.  

The point of my post was to be able to make a suggestion that I ultimately made.   Had I needed interpretation, I would have directly asked @Teken what do you think Michel means?  Fact is, the feature came back on a system that is considered alpha or beta, so I wanted to start a discussion and see if we could get the functionality going in version 5.x

I'm not as stupid as you tried to make me look.

[Bumbershoot]

Hi @Michel Kohanim, how's the big endian to little endian byte order swap proceeding?  I'm starting to think about a migration strategy, but I shudder at the complexity of recreating my current environment.  I'd be willing to test a backup/restore function from one platform to the other, if you're on the lookout for volunteers.  I think... ?

EDIT: I have both serial and USB PLM's and I just ordered the Zooz Z-Wave stick.  16 nodeservers running as well...

Edited October 19, 2021 by Bumbershoot

[Teken]

As you might have noticed I asked if he was aware that the upgrade display feature didn't work in v5.x.  Michel's answer about official releases and Z-wave certification turned out to be just about what I assumed.. but that had never been stated by UDI.  Once that is on the table I could follow thru with my secondary question of could the feature be enabled stating that a BETA release was available.  
The point of my post was to be able to make a suggestion that I ultimately made.   Had I needed interpretation, I would have directly asked @Teken what do you think Michel means?  Fact is, the feature came back on a system that is considered alpha or beta, so I wanted to start a discussion and see if we could get the functionality going in version 5.x
I'm not as stupid as you tried to make me look.

I didn’t have to do anything you did that all by yourself. My initial reply was given based on historical facts I know to be true.

It’s not based on how I feel or other.

What I take issue is your lack of internet decorum of replying (yelling) by using all caps at me for no reason! You’ve been around forums long enough and know the UDI forum members. To know, if you’re going to put someone on blast.

You better have the facts in hand because I’m the last guy you want to fight with.

[larryllix]

"Facts"  when the majority opinions agree on any statement or a common element of any statement. 

This term is often used by those wanting their opinions to appear to have backing by others and to be accepted.

Just sayin'

[larryllix]

3 hours ago, io_guy said:

They're all programmable but it's up to the vendor to give you maybe one or two updates in the life of the product.  And it will certainly stay on the same minor SDK level, i.e. 7.14.X or 7.15.X which is what most are on.

SiLabs releases every version of reference firmware, both standard and LR.  Updates are every couple months.  I'm on 7.16.3 right now which most 3rd party sticks will never see.

The SiLabs stick can also have it's NVM fully backed up using the standard Z-Wave PC Controller software.

Thanks for that!

If the newer updates makes the SiLab unit non-compatible with polisy drivers, do you know the version can be downgraded later? Is it just a matter of saving the older version and dumping it into the stick?

[MrBill]

44 minutes ago, Teken said:

I didn’t have to do anything you did that all by yourself. My initial reply was given based on historical facts I know to be true.

It’s not based on how I feel or other.

What I take issue is your lack of internet decorum of replying (yelling) by using all caps at me for no reason! You’ve been around forums long enough and know the UDI forum members. To know, if you’re going to put someone on blast.

You better have the facts in hand because I’m the last guy you want to fight with.

Teken we don't agree on this.  But I wasn't asking for your interpretation, you felt the need to give it anyway. I specifically ask Michel if he was aware...  I didn't need you tell me what "he meant to say".  I read what he said, then asked him a question, and you butted in....  In the future if I need your interpretation of what Michel might have meant to say, instead of asking him a question directly, I'll tag you like this "@Teken what do you think Michel meant to say?"

[larryllix]

1 hour ago, Bumbershoot said:

Hi @Michel Kohanim, how's the big endian to little endian byte order swap proceeding?  I'm starting to think about a migration strategy, but I shudder at the complexity of recreating my current environment.  I'd be willing to test a backup/restore function from one platform to the other, if you're on the lookout for volunteers.  I think... ?

EDIT: I have both serial and USB PLM's and I just ordered the Zooz Z-Wave stick.  16 nodeservers running as well...

I wouldn't have thought the endian thing would not be any problem unless code is being written in assembler. Not sure about some C(++) code. Most higher level languages don't make the coder care about machine specific idiosyncrazies.  (pundle intentional)

Edited October 19, 2021 by larryllix

[Teken]

"Facts"  when the majority opinions agree on any statement or a common element of any statement. 
This term is often used by those wanting their opinions to appear to have backing by others and to be accepted.
Just sayin'

Sorry don’t agree - facts are rooted in the information gathered by unbiased sources of information. Generally speaking facts are based on historical data gleaned from current events to determine what transpired.

Obviously if human is part of that equation one must ask human what happened. Since human is quite fallible if possible multi points of information must be gathered and obtained to achieve a level of accuracy.

Example:

I crossed the road.

How is that event determined to have happened?!? Regardless of how that information is obtained that event is based on what?!?

Past event - history . . .

It doesn’t matter what anyone says the action is - I walked across the road. Your reply about opinions applies to everything whether it be true or not.

That’s why it’s important to ask the right questions to obtain the facts! If 100 people are asked if I crossed the road the answer will very - why?!?

Because some may not be paying attention and assumed I was already on that side. Some will just say yes because they are like the millions of iSheep and just want to conform and want to be part of a larger collective.

The rest will simply affirm what they observed of me crossing the road. So if 80 people affirm me crossing the road that so called opinion has weight even though it’s not opinion it’s fact. An opinion is stating I walked very slowly compared to someone else.

They didn’t like the colour of my sneakers even though it has no relevance to the question at hand - did I cross the road?!?

[MrBill]

9 minutes ago, Teken said:

If 100 people are asked if I crossed the road the answer will very - why?!?

you just affirmed why your statement above "on historical facts" is invalid.  No two people will agree on "the historical facts".

Edited October 19, 2021 by MrBill

[Teken]

you just affirmed why your statement above "on historical facts" is invalid.  No two people will agree on "the historical facts".

You’re mistaken as I have historic events and time lines to affirm the same. The magic bullet is the information I provided is what?!?

Affirmed by the source - UDI . . .

[MrBill]

8 minutes ago, Teken said:

You’re mistaken as I have historic events and time lines to affirm the same. The magic bullet is the information I provided is what?!?

Affirmed by the source - UDI . . .

Like I said, when I want your opinion I'll ask you. when I'm asking Michel, then by all means please let Michel use his words... not what you think he meant to say.   

[Teken]

Like I said, when I want your opinion I'll ask you. when I'm asking Michel, then by all means please let Michel use his words... not what you think he meant to say.   

Don’t let the facts get in the way - eh?!?

[larryllix]

32 minutes ago, Teken said:

Sorry don’t agree - facts are rooted in the information gathered by unbiased sources of information. Generally speaking facts are based on historical data gleaned from current events to determine what transpired.

Obviously if human is part of that equation one must ask human what happened. Since human is quite fallible if possible multi points of information must be gathered and obtained to achieve a level of accuracy.

Example:

I crossed the road.

How is that event determined to have happened?!? Regardless of how that information is obtained that event is based on what?!?

Past event - history . . .

It doesn’t matter what anyone says the action is - I walked across the road. Your reply about opinions applies to everything whether it be true or not.

<snipped>

The fact you crossed the road is based on the majority of opinions only. Science works this way.

When a larger majority of people, say from a different angle agree you didn't cross the road it will now be the new factual information. Science works this way, and science also contains it's own disclaimers to agree with this fact that it is never absolute or static.