Lutron Caséta

[RPerrault]

and - have something like a receptacle...

sigh

 

[lilyoyo1]

7 minutes ago, RPerrault said:

you might snipe at others from behind your keyboard on this forum and get by without a response - i will respond so you can vomit up how many people you have helped yet again

i know i am not the big fish in this pond and i understand that this pond is important to you

i also understand that most here do not want to discuss concepts - especially you because you do not understand them - you can't ignore a thread i created to discuss wifi and its use for home automation - you could not ignore that thread - but felt compelled to bring in your snark

you are not as smart as you think you are - as revealed by what you post - and your language is off-putting if not offensive 

this will run you off - what is the constraint in using wifi for home automation - post the resource utilization for us

I don't understand concepts? Please tell me how many installations have you done? The only thing you've shown is the ability to copy and paste information from online and regurgitate the same stuff over and over again. That's fine if you want to make that look like you know what you're talking about but what and how many systems of Ra3 or ZigBee have you installed? At least in my case, I can speak on things from my experience. Can you say the same?

Even control4 recognizes that the frequency can have adverse effects on their system which is why their training material goes over how to minimize and mitigate it. 

@upstatemike was expressing his opinion about the 2.4g freq. because there can be issues with that frequency. That doesn't mean a customer WILL have issues. But it should be something that someone is aware of. Yes, I agree with him because I've gone to homes to troubleshoot issues that came about from wifi with Control4. Luckily those were easy fixes but the fact is it can happen. 

 

 

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, mango said:

Forgive me for intruding but there is a HUGE price discrepancy between 700ZW products and Lutron (RA, Caseta, Homeworks etc.) not to mention the capabilities of 700ZW go way beyond those of Lutron. Both have their place.

There is a huge difference price. However, if one can afford it, the experience is worth the price.

You're right in that everything has it's place. In this case, we're discussing it because the op asked questions about it.

The great thing about Lutron is it's ability to be integrated with other stuff as well beyond lighting just like zwave. Depending on controller, you can also combine it with zwave to get the benefits from that as well... I constantly say people should pick the best system for their situation. At the juncture since insteon is no more, I'd go with Lutron for lighting and 700 series sensors and outlets for everything else. To me (and my needs), that would give the best of both worlds

I wouldn't include homeworks because it's not really affordable except by a select few people and not available to the general public to do their own installs in any capacity. 

Homeworks competition would be Crestron due to the nature of the setup.

[RPerrault]

i have installed 600 billion - if that matters

i don't do this for a livelihood - i'm a nerd

your experience might work for you - understanding the concepts works for me - might work for others if you'd stop bashing us

i understand the concepts of the internal combustion engine - can work on them a bit too - don't need to understand the concept to drive a car though

you can drive - that is all - which is ok for setting up devices like you do - but you do NOT understand communication basics - if something is causing a communication problem, you can only guess why

you have no idea of if wifi is constrained - and certainly never prove what the problem is - but you would probably drop jargon and sell a customer more devices - 'read it on a forum'

like others, i am looking for a replacement for insteon - to make that decision, i need to understand the concepts and market direction and capabilities of each solution - limitations - cost - migration path - cost

i read - not just copy and paste - others might read too - i doubt that is you

(your analogies are even lame - trumped you there too - only needed one lane)

 

[vbPhil]

11 minutes ago, RPerrault said:

like others, i am looking for a replacement for insteon - to make that decision, i need to understand the concepts and market direction and capabilities of each solution - limitations - cost - migration path - cost

?

[lilyoyo1]

2 hours ago, io_guy said:

Still waiting for an actual example.  "look and feel" is extremely subjective and zwave has many different vendors/designs.  Some people like the sh1tty look and feel of Insteon.  

What's the operation that RA2 can do that zwave can't?

Let me start off by saying looks are subjective and I hate the look of Ra2. Ra3 on the other hand has that hands down and what I'm referring to when I speak on Lutron. 

I know you use Zooz so compare the dimming of that device, how it looks, feels, and operates, then go to your closest home Depot to check out the Lutron Sunnata dimmer. They should have one on display. Touch that one. Operate it. You'll see the difference. Unfortunately, it's something you have to experience more than I can show/prove online. 

Operation, it's the smoothness of it's dimming ability and lack of popcorn effect. Yes, the speed of 700 series is greater and you can use association for some stuff but it still doesn't compare to a system that can do it all over. The dimming ability (range/smoothness) is also greater with Ra3. I know different led bulbs exhibit different characteristics but since i use the same bulbs on all of my jobs, I'm comparing like for like. It will vary based on bulbs used for both products. 

Feel: When you click on a Zooz dimmer, you can feel and clearly hear the click the paddle makes when turning on/off while Ra3 is almost silent. The effort it takes to push Zooz's paddle is also greater as well (not saying it's hard, just harder).

 Look/experience: The reason I talk about the experience is because of how ra3 works. With Zooz, it just sits there unassuming without drawing attention to itself. That isn't a bad thing in itself but at the same time when you walk In a house with ra3, you take notice. It becomes a talking piece in a way. The soft glow when it's off to how the light bar ramps up and fades down afterwards when pressed. It makes a statement that it's special on its on. 

The Zooz paddle actually feels really good unlike a lot of other zwave devices I've felt over the years and I am amazed at it's quality, especially at it's price point. I can see why you like it. I actually use it in homes that I'm not automating to control outside lights in conjunction with the qolsys IQ panel. As good as it is though, it just doesn't compare. As @mangopointed out, there is a huge difference in price so the ra3 device should be much better. 

 

 

[lilyoyo1]

40 minutes ago, RPerrault said:

i have installed 600 billion - if that matters

i don't do this for a livelihood - i'm a nerd

your experience might work for you - understanding the concepts works for me - might work for others if you'd stop bashing us

i understand the concepts of the internal combustion engine - can work on them a bit too - don't need to understand the concept to drive a car though

you can drive - that is all - which is ok for setting up devices like you do - but you do NOT understand communication basics - if something is causing a communication problem, you can only guess why

you have no idea of if wifi is constrained - and certainly never prove what the problem is - but you would probably drop jargon and sell a customer more devices - 'read it on a forum'

like others, i am looking for a replacement for insteon - to make that decision, i need to understand the concepts and market direction and capabilities of each solution - limitations - cost - migration path - cost

i read - not just copy and paste - others might read too - i doubt that is you

(your analogies are even lame - trumped you there too - only needed one lane)

 

Ok. I guess doing this for a living means less than copying and pasting. I say that because most of your posts were copied from online sources. 

You must know more than a person who builds and fixes engines for a living too.  You win. 

[RPerrault]

20 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Operation, it's the smoothness of it's dimming ability and lack of popcorn effect. Yes, the speed of 700 series is greater and you can use association for some stuff but it still doesn't compare to a system that can do it all over. 

 

 

 

and that is important enough to me to drop zwave from consideration - for lighting

scenes

 

[RPerrault]

10 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Ok. I guess doing this for a living means less than copying and pasting. I say that because most of your posts were copied from online sources. 

You must know more than a person who builds and fixes engines for a living too.  You win. 

of course i win

you might try reading the random links i post - might learn what a protocol is - or how to see a 'router' constraint

 

[lilyoyo1]

4 minutes ago, RPerrault said:

of course i win

you might try reading the random links i post - might learn what a protocol is - or how to see a 'router' constraint

 

Ok. Can you make it easy and just post the links to the articles you're copying? That way I can just save them. Thank you

[io_guy]

2 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Let me start off by saying looks are subjective and I hate the look of Ra2. Ra3 on the other hand has that hands down and what I'm referring to when I speak on Lutron. 

I know you use Zooz so compare the dimming of that device, how it looks, feels, and operates, then go to your closest home Depot to check out the Lutron Sunnata dimmer. They should have one on display. Touch that one. Operate it. You'll see the difference. Unfortunately, it's something you have to experience more than I can show/prove online. 

Operation, it's the smoothness of it's dimming ability and lack of popcorn effect. Yes, the speed of 700 series is greater and you can use association for some stuff but it still doesn't compare to a system that can do it all over. The dimming ability (range/smoothness) is also greater with Ra3. I know different led bulbs exhibit different characteristics but since i use the same bulbs on all of my jobs, I'm comparing like for like. It will vary based on bulbs used for both products. 

Feel: When you click on a Zooz dimmer, you can feel and clearly hear the click the paddle makes when turning on/off while Ra3 is almost silent. The effort it takes to push Zooz's paddle is also greater as well (not saying it's hard, just harder).

 Look/experience: The reason I talk about the experience is because of how ra3 works. With Zooz, it just sits there unassuming without drawing attention to itself. That isn't a bad thing in itself but at the same time when you walk In a house with ra3, you take notice. It becomes a talking piece in a way. The soft glow when it's off to how the light bar ramps up and fades down afterwards when pressed. It makes a statement that it's special on its on. 

The Zooz paddle actually feels really good unlike a lot of other zwave devices I've felt over the years and I am amazed at it's quality, especially at it's price point. I can see why you like it. I actually use it in homes that I'm not automating to control outside lights in conjunction with the qolsys IQ panel. As good as it is though, it just doesn't compare. As @mangopointed out, there is a huge difference in price so the ra3 device should be much better. 

 

 

I appreciate your comments and they all make sense.  I certainly won't argue the better "feel" of Sunnata.  What I will say is that the Zooz dimmers are a large step up from the clinky feel of Insteon.

The popcorn effect and dimming is actually substantially better on a Zen77 than a 2477D and many older ZW dimmers.  This has to do with the 77 being mosfet (trailing edge) based rather than triac (rising edge), which makes a night and day difference in LED bulb compatibility and full span dimming.

At the end of the day I look at forums like this as more of a DIY experience.  Which is why I see a place for something like Zooz, where it's a 3rd the price of RA3 with no ongoing installer costs.  Call it the best bang for the buck.

[lilyoyo1]

45 minutes ago, io_guy said:

I appreciate your comments and they all make sense.  I certainly won't argue the better "feel" of Sunnata.  What I will say is that the Zooz dimmers are a large step up from the clinky feel of Insteon.

The popcorn effect and dimming is actually substantially better on a Zen77 than a 2477D and many older ZW dimmers.  This has to do with the 77 being mosfet (trailing edge) based rather than triac (rising edge), which makes a night and day difference in LED bulb compatibility and full span dimming.

At the end of the day I look at forums like this as more of a DIY experience.  Which is why I see a place for something like Zooz, where it's a 3rd the price of RA3 with no ongoing installer costs.  Call it the best bang for the buck.

Ra3 doesn't necessarily have installer costs. The training is free as well as the software. The device price can't be beat when it comes to lutron but I think it comes down to what an individual is willing to pay.

For me, the experience one has using a device matters just as much as the automation itself so If i couldn't afford RA at once, I'd be willing to save and replace slowly as the benefits are worth the price (but would need polisy to support it if i couldn't use C4).

My experience with insteon vs zooz is different than yours. While the popcorn effect is greatly diminished, it's still well short of insteon. Granted zooz handles individual lights better but not multiple devices. 

[jkraus]

Is the Caseta bridge a Zwave extender?   In other words are Aeotec Range Extender the same end result?