Insteon Hubs on eBay going for $300 plus

[CPrince]

What am I missing?  Insteon Hubs going for $300 plus?  I figured they were almost useless.  Maybe some people have not received the memo yet?

[mmb]

37 minutes ago, CPrince said:

What am I missing?  Insteon Hubs going for $300 plus?  I figured they were almost useless.  Maybe some people have not received the memo yet?

@CPrince they work really well with Home Assistant and others...

I used my formerly useless Hub to reprovision my condo's automations using HA.

[CPrince]

@mmbSo HA uses the hub as a PLM?  No devices stored in the hub, but in HA?  I guess I need to get a Raspberry PI and check it out.

[mmb]

@CPrince my hub is a replacement from Smarthome for a burnt out hub so it's also factory reset and no devices. I use the Hub with a RPi4.

The HA/Insteon integration is limited but the basics are there.  I understand given all the Insteon users looking for a solutions HA is doing more work on their integration and should have something in the next couple of weeks.  "Limited" for example no ramp rates for dimmer modules but it does brightness.

Anyway my condo has Insteon door sensors, plugin modules and wall switches and they seem to work perfectly with the hub. HA has a cloud based remote access solution as well.

PS I suggested to UD that given Polisy in still in development, they could make a driver like HA but UD said the Hub is limited in some ways so it would be a lot of work.

Edited April 23, 2022 by mmb

[MrBill]

1 hour ago, CPrince said:

So HA uses the hub as a PLM?  No devices stored in the hub, but in HA?

HA can use a HUB, it can also use PLM's, for the insteon integration.   The devices are still stored in the hub, thats the basis for the red banner on the forum, telling people not to factory reset their hubs... its easier to set up HA to operate the hub if the devices haven't been wiped out of it.

[mmb]

25 minutes ago, MrBill said:

HA can use a HUB, it can also use PLM's, for the insteon integration.   The devices are still stored in the hub, thats the basis for the red banner on the forum, telling people not to factory reset their hubs... its easier to set up HA to operate the hub if the devices haven't been wiped out of it.

@MrBill from experience setting up the devices with a factory reset Hub was a piece of cake and no more difficult than setting up devices for the first on an ISY.

But I agree several of my friends who did not factory reset said their devices just popped up automatically when HA does the Insteon scan.

What I'm not understanding is what happens to schedules and other device specific settings if you don't factory reset?

Edited April 23, 2022 by mmb

[MrBill]

41 minutes ago, mmb said:

@MrBill from experience setting up the devices with a factory reset Hub was a piece of cake and no more difficult than setting up devices for the first on an ISY.

But I agree several of my friends who did not factory reset said their devices just popped up automatically when HA does the Insteon scan.

What I'm not understanding is what happens to schedules and other device specific settings if you don't factory reset?

I agree that the hub has to get factory reset to get rid of schedules.  What I'm unclear about (and actually my son just called and asked a similar question.  If you reset the hub, and/or factory reset a switch how do you add it back to the hub? 

He's migrated from insteon hub and alexa to Insteon hub and Home assistant.   for the most part he's got 3 switches that (I think) got manually linked weirdly.  Anyway the solution seems like those 3 switches could be factory reset (non are 3-way) but then how do we link the back to the hub?

[mmb]

43 minutes ago, MrBill said:

I agree that the hub has to get factory reset to get rid of schedules.  What I'm unclear about (and actually my son just called and asked a similar question.  If you reset the hub, and/or factory reset a switch how do you add it back to the hub? 

He's migrated from insteon hub and alexa to Insteon hub and Home assistant.   for the most part he's got 3 switches that (I think) got manually linked weirdly.  Anyway the solution seems like those 3 switches could be factory reset (non are 3-way) but then how do we link the back to the hub?

@MrBill it is pretty easy to add back devices, go to HA Developer Tools / Services / Insteon: Add all Link (search for it) and use Group 0 and IM Mode "Controller" button.

Do the usual factory reset on the Insteon device then go into linking mode and click Call Service. You'll hear the usual Insteon beep confirming the link and if not do it again.

As mentioned, HA is working on an update for Insteon so maybe the process will change. Going into Dev Tools to link seems kind of weird.

 

Edited April 23, 2022 by mmb

[JeffM]

On 4/23/2022 at 4:30 PM, MrBill said:

HA can use a HUB, it can also use PLM's, for the insteon integration.   The devices are still stored in the hub, thats the basis for the red banner on the forum, telling people not to factory reset their hubs... its easier to set up HA to operate the hub if the devices haven't been wiped out of it.

Since i'm new to all this, what the heck is Home Assistant?  Is that a product sold here?  Is it really that easy to buy and use with existing Insteon?

I feel like i'm drowning in a sea of information.  I still have my Insteon plugged in and it runs what it runs.  I just have no access to it to change anything.

[MrBill]

5 minutes ago, JeffM said:

Since i'm new to all this, what the heck is Home Assistant?  Is that a product sold here?  Is it really that easy to buy and use with existing Insteon?

I feel like i'm drowning in a sea of information.  I still have my Insteon plugged in and it runs what it runs.  I just have no access to it to change anything.

Home Assistant is an open source home automation package that's been around awhile but had exponential growth over the last 18-24 months.   https://www.home-assistant.io/ 

No charge to install and use the software.  There is a remote access cloud component that has a fee but is optional.

[keepersg]

There's a plugin for Homeseer HS3 and HS4 that also works with the hub.  Very active discussion there since SmartHome went up in smoke.

[smithlevenson]

My understating was that the Insteon Hub was a controller and PLM in one. Can a Hub be used as just a PLM?

[MrBill]

1 minute ago, smithlevenson said:

My understating was that the Insteon Hub was a controller and PLM in one. Can a Hub be used as just a PLM?

The ISY doesn't not support using a hub as a PLM... other platform do make use of the hub, such as Home Assistant and Hubbitat.

[smithlevenson]

28 minutes ago, MrBill said:

The ISY doesn't not support using a hub as a PLM... other platform do make use of the hub, such as Home Assistant and Hubbitat.

Got it. Thanks.

[mmb]

4 hours ago, smithlevenson said:

Got it. Thanks.

I'm using Home Assistant with the V2 hub and I'm able to reproduce the automations I had in the Hub.  It's a small setup...

[MrBill]

18 hours ago, mmb said:

I'm using Home Assistant with the V2 hub and I'm able to reproduce the automations I had in the Hub.  It's a small setup...

My son adopted Home Assistant with his V2 hub and loves it.  His automatons now exceed anything he had the old way... for example, the fireplace now turns on with lights in that room, but only if it's cold outside, before it was just alexa, turn on the fire. 

It's quite interesting as I've helped him through this, his approach to automations and how he wants it to work is entirely different than the way I do things/like things.  Neither of us are wrong, just different.   My wife and I like button pushes or switch taps over talking to Alexa, in his house they definitely prefer Alexa only for day to day control.  I love having a geofence and the house automatically shutting off etc when we leave, geofences for some reason don't interest him, he just wants to say "Alexa, we're leaving" on the way out.  To him it seems the concept of Home Automation begins with the word "alexa".

[larryllix]

My son adopted Home Assistant with his V2 hub and loves it.  His automatons now exceed anything he had the old way... for example, the fireplace now turns on with lights in that room, but only if it's cold outside, before it was just alexa, turn on the fire. 
It's quite interesting as I've helped him through this, his approach to automations and how he wants it to work is entirely different than the way I do things/like things.  Neither of us are wrong, just different.   My wife and I like button pushes or switch taps over talking to Alexa, in his house they definitely prefer Alexa only for day to day control.  I love having a geofence and the house automatically shutting off etc when we leave, geofences for some reason don't interest him, he just wants to say "Alexa, we're leaving" on the way out.  To him it seems the concept of Home Automation begins with the word "alexa".

My wife and I both like to push each other's buttons too.

Sometimes the taps escalate into closed hand taps and then it's time self...never mind.

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

[mmb]

2 hours ago, MrBill said:

My son adopted Home Assistant with his V2 hub and loves it.

HA released an update for May 2022 that was oriented somewhat to help Insteon users.

It even has the If-Then structure and other interface enhancements.

It's worth the update.

[MrBill]

11 minutes ago, mmb said:

HA released an update for May 2022 that was oriented somewhat to help Insteon users.

It even has the If-Then structure and other interface enhancements.

It's worth the update.

I read the HA release notes last night.  HA puts out a major update the first Wednesday of every month, and about 6-9 minor releases follow during the month.  I've learned not to load the first release of the month, I always wait until about .4 or .5 in a week to 10 days after the first Wednesday.  I've been running HA for a couple years now, and twice have gotten caught up in nasty first release of the month bugs, as a result I adopted the "wait-a-week" strategy.  mostly what's in the minor releases during the month are fixes to the major release on the first Wednesday.  

Also always be sure to read the release notes, the HA project is fast moving and you need to watch for new integrations that work for you, and play close attention to the list of breaking changes.

[smithlevenson]

Just now, MrBill said:

I read the HA release notes last night.  HA puts out a major update the first Wednesday of every month, and about 6-9 minor releases follow during the month.  I've learned not to load the first release of the month, I always wait until about .4 or .5 in a week to 10 days after the first Wednesday.  I've been running HA for a couple years now, and twice have gotten caught up in nasty first release of the month bugs, as a result I adopted the "wait-a-week" strategy.  mostly what's ithe minor releases during the month are fixes to the major release on the first Wednesday.  

Also always be sure to read the release notes, the HA project is fast moving and you need to watch for new integrations that work for you, and play close attention to the list of breaking changes.

What I wouldn't give for a local closed system "Alexa". I understand people who don't care, but I took Alexa out of my system after going through all the privacy settings and what she had recorded. It also trampled all over my phrases to try and get me to buy shit. 

[MrBill]

Just now, smithlevenson said:

What I wouldn't give for a local closed system "Alexa". I understand people who don't care, but I took Alexa out of my system after going through all the privacy settings and what she had recorded. It also trampled all over my phrases to try and get me to buy shit. 

I've never had problems with Alexa trying to sell me shit.  I do frequently make sure "skills" haven't been added without me realizing it. 

The most annoying thing to us is we play music on the "everywhere group" almost all day everyday and have the volume adjusted perfectly for the music source.  The volume for her voice tho is too low to understand unless 1) the music isn't on 2) you're actually near a speaker 3) you're ready to listen.  That should work out fine, because for what we user her for 1) Music 2) turning devices on or off 3) kitchen timers and kitchen conversions we don't really need to "listen" to her.  BUT..  she has an a habit of saying "By they way, did you know blah blah blah" and i really don't want her to do that.  Never ready to listen, don't care if she think I might not know how to use something, etc etc....

What makes Alexa's inexpensive tho is the fact the power to voice process is the cloud, thousands of alexa's can share the same processor power.

[smithlevenson]

10 minutes ago, MrBill said:

What makes Alexa's inexpensive tho is the fact the power to voice process is the cloud, thousands of alexa's can share the same processor power.

I would probably pay $500 / device that could do everything Alexa could do and was updated, but no data ever left my system. 

[lilyoyo1]

55 minutes ago, smithlevenson said:

I would probably pay $500 / device that could do everything Alexa could do and was updated, but no data ever left my system. 

Thats a nice thought but how many would be willing to pay that? In addition, as technology changes, most would be mad once that unit was obsolete due to future upgrades that it cant keep up with. It's telling, I still have a first gen in service that works without any issue. Im hard pressed to believe a self contained unit would still be working/upgraded this long

[TrojanHorse]

Are we sure Alexa’s preferred pronouns include “she”? Regardless, my view is it should be referred to as “It”. Real women are quite powerful and some don’t need Alexa to run timers in the kitchen

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[apostolakisl]

Am I missing something here, but are Raspberry Pi's now rare?  I think I paid $30 for my last one, now it appears they are all like $300.  My father in law has an Insteon Hub he used with SH and I see from this thread he can hook it up to a RPi running HA.  So I was like, great, I'll pick up a rpi for him.  But what the heck?