Can't control KPL load from the same KPL...

[delston]

I've gotten a long way since my last post. MOST scenes are working properly and I've decided to simplify my system and programs for a better peace of mind.

 

The issue I'm running into currently is with a scene that is to turn on 8 or so devices from a dedicated button on either one of two different 8KPLs. The scene calls for all non-KPL lights to turn on to various intensities as well as the respective loads on the Kitchen located KPL and the Living room KPL.

 

When I press the 'Party' button from the kitchen KPL, all lights from the party scene including the load of the Living room KPL turn on correctly; the kitchen KPL's load does not respond at all.

 

When i press the 'Party' button on the living room KPL, all lights from the party scene including the load of the kitchen KPL turn on correctly; the living room KPL's load does not respond at all.

 

Anyone have any idea of what this issue is?

 

As a side note, I've got an "all on" button on the living room KPL that triggers the KPL's load along with a table lamp. Even though i have the KPL's load added into the scene, the load does not respond while the table lamp does. Is there something special I must do to allow a button on a KPL to control the load on that same KPL? What's the trick?

 

Thanks!

[oberkc]

I understand that there is only one button on a KPL that controls the load. On the 6-button, it is the top/bottom. On the 8-button, it is the upper left. I don't know if this is your issue, but thought it worth saying. If your party button is other than the upper left (button A), then you need to be sure to include button A in the scene.

 

Remember also that on levels for each device in a scene can be set independently for each controller of the scene. It is possible that a given KPL load's on level is set to zero (or very low) in response to that KPL's party button controller. I suggest double-checking this.

[gfridland]

Interesting timing of the question...

 

I'm having the same issue with 2 of my new 8 button KPL"s

 

Really interested in any suggestions. I have verified on levels and that all buttons are in the same scene.

 

I am in 2.7.9

 

Interesting thing that i notice is that if i do a fast on (double tap) everything works well.

G

[oberkc]

Really interested in any suggestions. I have verified on levels and that all buttons are in the same scene.

 

 

Is everything in the scene as a controller? If so, my instincts would tell me to check device links table for those devices in the scene, and compare to ISY (under diagnostics). Perhaps you have some extra, or missing, links? If so, then I would restore any device not matching the ISY.

 

Beyond that, I am at a loss, unless it is a simple case of communication errors due to interference. Is the failure consistent, or intermittent?

[gfridland]

All the buttons are responders except for the secondary controllers that initiate the scene...I have temperarily resolved my issue by

 

A-removing the secondary button controllers from the scene

B-re-inserting them into the scene as responders

C-creating a program that react to the secondary buttons to activate the scene.

 

This seems to work well but still not the way I thought it should work.

 

This should be pretty easy....

[delston]

I've checked scene: all proper buttons are controllers and all lights are set to their proper levels yet the problem still exists. I am running ISY firmware 2.7.8. I too created a program to turn on the proper scenes again just in case a light or two doesn't respond.

 

After testing this, it occurs to me that THIS is what I bought the ISY to do: setup the scenes for me...sadly it's not doing it very well so far...it's got about a 40% success rate in turning on ALL the lights in the scenes. The thing is, i shouldn't have to create a 'just in case' program b/c the scenes shouldn't be this big of an issue. As you said, this should be easy...

 

Let me know if you figure out a solution to this.

[gfridland]

Delston...

 

I have been using a wait command in my complex programs between "then" commands to space out traffic. Usually a 1-3 second wait will do the trick. Also, I have made use of the repeat command to ensure that all is solid. Seems to work for me.

 

Perhaps the ISY is giving commands quicker than the devices can respond to them or perhaps there is a power line noise issue. I have a fairly new house and a pretty goo electrical install so it shouldn't be a noise issue, but who knows.

 

I have done numerous diagnostics, including testing all my scenes and they are always "successful" but when the program calls for a scene or a number of devices to do a command, then there are misfires....this also points to the "high traffic" theory.

 

I'm open to any other thoughts...

[Michel Kohanim]

Delston,

 

I would need more information on why only 40% of your scenes work. ISY should be able to program all your scenes and you do not need programs for them.

 

If the problems are ONLY limited to KPL buttons controlling their own loads, then the problem might be related to the bug in 2.7.8/9. You might want to try 2.7.7.

 

If not, I really do need to understand which devices are not responding properly. It's especially very important to know if any of these devices report SwitchLinc v35.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[delston]

Michel,

 

I will give 2.7.7 a try. I didn't realize there was a bug related to this in 2.7.8

 

The devices that are not responding properly are the load of the KPL itself i.e Main On/Off. Sometimes the lamplinc i have does not respond either. Eventually, repeatedly triggering the same scene causes the lamplinc to respond.

 

Thanks for the help.

[gfridland]

Michel,

 

I am also interested in the secondary button on a new (V5.2) 8 button kpl not controlling the main load button.

 

Nothing I have tried has allowed this to work. An interesting thing that I noticed is that even when I tried to manually link the secondary button to the load button, there was no success. I attempted this with 2 different KPL's...both same version.

 

Perhaps this is a harware issue with the new KPL? Anyone else seen this issue with the V5.2?

 

Thanks...

[oberkc]

After testing this, it occurs to me that THIS is what I bought the ISY to do: setup the scenes for me...sadly it's not doing it very well so far...it's got about a 40% success rate in turning on ALL the lights in the scenes.

 

Apparently, there are issues with certain versions of switchlinks and ISY software, but for the outside of that, it is my belief that the ISY and the various insteon devices work flawlessly when communication is solid. Unfortunately, insteon communication can be interfered with by other electronic devices and it is, in my mind, the single problem with these systems. If you work with the folks at universal devices and cannot find issues with your various versions, I think I would still be looking at communication and the associated problems. Check link tables on problem devices and compare to the ISY to confirm all the scene stuff went off without problem.

 

I have done numerous diagnostics, including testing all my scenes and they are always "successful" but when the program calls for a scene or a number of devices to do a command, then there are misfires....this also points to the "high traffic" theory.

 

I experience this high traffic problem less and less as I am able to identify interfering devices and test and correct any link mismatches between the ISY and insteon devices. I used to have a lot of 2-second waits in programs to deal with the signal collision (especially when I have X-10 commands), but require it less and less now.

 

It has been a lot of work, unfortunately, and very frustrating at times, but it can be made to work as you expect.

[gfridland]

I got there, but couldn't do it again if I had to!

 

Here's what I did:

 

A-I reset the KPL's to factory default.

B-Restore device through the ISY.

(at this point, the secondary button still does not control the main load)

C-Manually link the main load button to the secondary button

D-have a beer!!!

 

Followed this procedure for both KPL's and all is OK so far.

 

I have 10 KPL's at the moment, and these were the only ones where this was an issue...the common thread is they are the V5.2.

 

Another interesting observation:

 

During all my experiments, but prior to the manual linking, the ISY was reporting the all devices, including the main load, were operating. In other words, the main load would not go on, but the ISY showed that it did. Also, If i triggered the scene from the ISY, all devices responded correctly.

 

So...for some reason, the link was not properly written to the secondary button by the ISY, even though it existed in the ISY scene. After manually linking them, the device matches the ISY scene in operation.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi gfridland,

 

This is a known issue with 2.7.8/9 where some links are not written.

 

Hi delston,

 

Would you be kind enough to try Tools | Diagnostics | Scene Test for the scenes for which you have unreliable behavior? Also, it's very important to know whether or not you have some SwitchLincs having firmware v. 35 .

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[gfridland]

Thanks Michel...

 

Does this only affect the KPLs?

 

Another observation regarding the KPLs that have been problematic is that after reset, ISY linking, and Manual Linking, to establish the desired link to the main button, all devices are properly inserted into the scene, however, when I attempt to set a 60% level/0.5 second ramp time on the sliders for ONLY the main load on the respective KPL's, it succeeds at first, however, when I return to the scene after clicking on a different one, the level is set to 11% and minimum ramp time on one KPL, and 22% and minimum ramp time for the other.

 

All other levels/ramp rates in the same scene are stored properly. So it only affects the main load of the KPL where the secondary button controls the main.

 

No matter how many times I repeat this, the desired level is not saved.

 

When I operate the scene, the corret lighting level/delay is turned on.

 

It appears that the information is properly written to the device, but not saved properly in the ISY inteface.

 

I presume that this issue will be fixed in the near future?

 

Other than this issue, the 2.7.9 is solid. I have not had any other issues with any other new devices, including an IRLinc.

 

Thanks for your hard work!

[delston]

I have noticed the same 11% reset! Quite peculiar. I thought I was the only one.

[delston]

Michel,

 

I'll do the checks you've requested when I get home tonight.

 

Thanks for your help.

[RoShambo]

I have noticed the same 11% reset! Quite peculiar. I thought I was the only one.

 

Delston:

 

Michel commented in another thread that the 11% on level with ramp rate change is fixed in the next alpha

 

http://forum.universal-devices.com/view ... 8534#28534

 

I was also experiencing the issue with controlling the load from a sub button on the same KPL too but went back to 2.7.6 to get all my scenes to work until this gets resolved.

 

Regards

[gfridland]

Michel,

 

I am a bit confused...

 

In the Known Bugs area for 2.7.9, there is a reference to the KPL issue we are having, but it states that this works with the PRO version...

 

"KPL issues: adding sub button and load to a scene does not work in 99i Series (it works in PRO)"

 

I have the PRO version of the ISY99i and still have this problem...

 

Is this a different issue?

 

Thanks in advance.

[gfridland]

Perhaps just a coincidence, but if I only adjust the On Level and leave the ramp time alone (at minimum/fastest on), the scene is saved with the correct on-level.

 

It does not reset back to the 11% or 22% as before.

 

Not sure if this helps.

[delston]

I too have the PRO version, I will be scaling back to 2.6.6 when I get home from work today. I'll post again when if i find any helpful results.

[gfridland]

Looks like the level/ramp issue is being covered in this thread:

 

http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?t=3785

 

Based on this, it appears that 2.7.10 should resolve this issue...

 

Thanks Michel for your efforts.

[delston]

I'm still having the same KPL button cannot control KPL's load issue.

 

To reiterate: I have the "B" button on my 8KPL labeled as an "All On" button. When pressed the all on button should turn on two other dimmers in the room and the load of the 8KPL itself (the "A" button, or upper left button).

 

Since my last post, I've moved up to 2.7.15, but am still having the same issue. However the 11% reset issue has been solved.

 

Any idea how to fix this KPL problem?

[oberkc]

Is it possible that the on levels and ramp rates are not set properly for each of your devices? When you select each of the KPLs within the scene, are each of the controlled devices listed with correct levels?

[Sub-Routine]

I wish I had better news for you delston but the older KPLs do not support this function. You can however use a program in the ISY to watch for the button press and then turn on the load.

 

I am sorry I don't have a note for when the KPL version changed. IIRC it was version 2A when the change was made.

 

What is the version of your KPL?

 

Rand

 

I'm still having the same KPL button cannot control KPL's load issue.

 

To reiterate: I have the "B" button on my 8KPL labeled as an "All On" button. When pressed the all on button should turn on two other dimmers in the room and the load of the 8KPL itself (the "A" button, or upper left button).

 

Since my last post, I've moved up to 2.7.15, but am still having the same issue. However the 11% reset issue has been solved.

 

Any idea how to fix this KPL problem?

[justin.cool]

I had some very similar issues with my KPL's. It may help to review the thread posted in the Communication Issues category:

 

Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:42 am Post subject: Scene Activation from a KPL

 

I had to take all my KPL's offline, factory reset them and then bring them back into the network in order to get the correct s/w version for the ISY. AFter that, I was able to control the MAIN load of a KPL from any button on the same KPL.

 

Hope this helps.