MatterZ? ZMatter?

[Venicenerd]

37 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

It's not you being wrong. It's Apple refusing to open up homekit and play nice. Home ridge (or any bridge for that matter) would be moot if Apple opened up everything to Matter the way it was supposed to be

Apple will fully support matter. Why do you think they won’t? They are part of the consortium that created Matter and they will fully support it later this year when matter is officially launched. 
 

https://csa-iot.org/members/

[lilyoyo1]

39 minutes ago, Venicenerd said:

Apple will fully support matter. Why do you think they won’t? They are part of the consortium that created Matter and they will fully support it later this year when matter is officially launched. 
 

https://csa-iot.org/members/

There's a few symposiums that they've had including many online articles detailing what matter is and it's short falls. The main question from every one about apple and homekit due to them not clarifying how they will work together. In addition, there are many loopholes that allow companies to support some things but not others. 

In short, apple can allow Matter systems to be controlled via homekit (Siri) but not necessarily be part of the homekit ecosystem.

I'm not saying definitively that this is the case. I don't know.  I'm not looking at things through rose colored glasses based off their history and lack of silence. I suspect that you subconsciously feel the same way; otherwise you wouldn't be worried about a bridge being needed for homekit if apple would play right with everyone else with Matter 

[Venicenerd]

27 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I suspect that you subconsciously feel the same way; otherwise you wouldn't be worried about a bridge being needed for homekit if apple would play right with everyone else with Matter 

No it’s not that I’m worried I may just not be understanding matter correctly. 
 

As far as I understand just because something is a matter device doesn’t have to mean it’s also a matter controller. I understand that they Eisy will be a matter controller but, to me, that doesn’t mean it will also be a matter device. As far as I understand there would need to be some sort of software implementation that would let the Eisy take certain Insteon devices, and advertise them as matter devices.

Forget about HomeKit. I’m strictly speaking matter. If you want we can use Alexa or Google as an example. I just want to know if I add Insteon devices to my Eisy, will the Eisy provide me with a matter code that I can use to import said devices into Google Home VIA matter. 

(I really don’t understand how it would do this without some sort of software implementation that lets you select WHICH Eisy devices you want to be advertised as matter devices. The Eisy would also need to generate some sort of pin code that you can use to add these devices to your Google home via matter)

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Venicenerd

[lilyoyo1]

30 minutes ago, Venicenerd said:

No it’s not that I’m worried I may just not be understanding matter correctly. 
 

As far as I understand just because something is a matter device doesn’t have to mean it’s also a matter controller. I understand that they Eisy will be a matter controller but, to me, that doesn’t mean it will also be a matter device. As far as I understand there would need to be some sort of software implementation that would let the Eisy take certain Insteon devices, and advertise them as matter devices.

Forget about HomeKit. I’m strictly speaking matter. If you want we can use Alexa or Google as an example. I just want to know if I add Insteon devices to my Eisy, will the Eisy provide me with a matter code that I can use to import said devices into Google Home VIA matter. 

(I really don’t understand how it would do this without some sort of software implementation that lets you select WHICH Eisy devices you want to be advertised as matter devices. The Eisy would also need to generate some sort of pin code that you can use to add these devices to your Google home via matter)

 

It's being done now with Alexa/Google devices via the portal. As I keep saying, Matter isn't even available yet to say  what will be and how it will be done. 

The only thing UDI (or anyone can do) is follow the Matter API to provide compatibility and access. If everyone does so, once it's out we'll all be living in Utopia. 

For those that do not, then we'll have to see how that impacts everything and everyone else

Edited September 12, 2022 by lilyoyo1

[asbril]

36 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

It's being done now with Alexa/Google devices via the portal. As I keep saying, Matter isn't even available yet to say  what will be and how it will be done. 

The only thing UDI (or anyone can do) is follow the Matter API to provide compatibility and access. If everyone does so, once it's out we'll all be living in Utopia. 

For those that do not, then we'll have to see how that impacts everything and everyone else

As always, I am learning from this forum. I had never focused on Homebridge as I am not using Homekit. But reading up on Homebridge I would think that Matter or No Matter, using Homebridge whatever you have in ISY/Polisy/Eisy should be accessible in Homekit. @lilyoyo1 am I right ?

[lilyoyo1]

21 minutes ago, asbril said:

As always, I am learning from this forum. I had never focused on Homebridge as I am not using Homekit. But reading up on Homebridge I would think that Matter or No Matter, using Homebridge whatever you have in ISY/Polisy/Eisy should be accessible in Homekit. @lilyoyo1 am I right ?

You're right. Nothing should change. All tl3 controllers use the same software. The only difference would be possible firmware changes causing updates to be made

 

[Michel Kohanim]

12 hours ago, roberthleeii said:

Ok.... any upgrade specials to the eisy? I just upgraded my isy to a polisy ~3 months ago. 

You do not need eisy. This is for Polisy. Also, when you upgrade to eisy, we'll have USB converter so that you can take the board out of Polisy and plug it into a USB port on Polisy.

With kind regards,
Michel

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello all, some initial pricing:

ZMatter/MatterZ board: $126
Those who have the Zooz dongle, they can send it in for $29.00 refund applied to the order.

Currently, the antennas are the second most expensive components on this design especially the one for Z-Wave. 

With kind regards,

Michel
 

[asbril]

43 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

Hello all, some initial pricing:

ZMatter/MatterZ board: $126
Those who have the Zooz dongle, they can send it in for $29.00 refund applied to the order.

Currently, the antennas are the second most expensive components on this design especially the one for Z-Wave. 

With kind regards,

Michel
 

I am a bit confused.... The ZMatter/MatterZ board is to be added to Polisy ? In that case, what is the difference between an upgraded Polisy and Eisy ?  Does Eisy have more capacity for growth than Polisy ? If there is a difference, when will Eisy be available ?

[Michel Kohanim]

@asbril,

The board is just a Z-Wave and Zigbee dongle with special firmware and can be connected to either one. In the case of Polisy, it's internal. In the case of eisy, it's a USB stick (with two antennas sticking out). 

If you have Polisy, you don't necessarily need eisy. eisy is definitely more powerful than Polisy. It also has updated WiFi (6) and Bluetooth (5.2) and HDMI output. But, they both do have the same OS and pretty much the same automation functionality, security/TPM, and device support. You can simply backup Polisy and restore on eisy. The only things that might be on eisy and not polisy are related to BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy devices) and Audio Video streaming.

So, for those with Polisy, it's much more economical to get the board and install it inside Polisy especially given the discount for Zooz dongles. When/if you decide to move to eisy, you can reuse the board by having a USB to mPCIe converter (which we will offer). 

With kind regards,
Michel

[jec6613]

2 hours ago, Michel Kohanim said:

ZMatter/MatterZ board: $126

I assure you that I will be among the first to order.

For the Matter(ZigBee) portion of it, will it be able to join devices right away or will that be pending future firmware updates?  For instance, can it take over the role of a TRADFRI or Hue hub?

[brians]

@Michel KohanimI noticed that in your store you have a WiFi upgrade for Polisy. I gather that would turn my regular Polisy into the equivalent of a Polisy Pro. Do you recommend getting this also or if I have a wired ethernet connection is that sufficient?

If I do end up getting the WiFi also, are there enough antenna holes on Polisy to support both the WiFi ZMatter board? Or do I make my own holes - eg are there punchouts? I haven't looked closely at my Polisy regarding this.

[Michel Kohanim]

@jec6613,

The initial firmware in the dongle supports Zigbee 3.0. So, it should be able to handle regular Zigbee devices BUT:

1. We still need code in IoP probably in the form of a node server (developers are welcome to submit their interest)
2. Not all Zigbee Devices are compatible. With regard to Hue Hub, all the naming and associations are stored there. So, if you remove it, then polyglot will not work because there are no such concepts in Zigbee

@brians,

Yes, the WiFi kit makes it your Polisy into Polisy PRO. It's really up to you and where polisy is. For instance, since I don't have any ethernet cables where my Polisy is, I use WiFi exclusively. If I had Ethernet cables, I would not use WiFi.

With kind regards,
Michel

[asbril]

39 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

@asbril,

The board is just a Z-Wave and Zigbee dongle with special firmware and can be connected to either one. In the case of Polisy, it's internal. In the case of eisy, it's a USB stick (with two antennas sticking out). 

If you have Polisy, you don't necessarily need eisy. eisy is definitely more powerful than Polisy. It also has updated WiFi (6) and Bluetooth (5.2) and HDMI output. But, they both do have the same OS and pretty much the same automation functionality, security/TPM, and device support. You can simply backup Polisy and restore on eisy. The only things that might be on eisy and not polisy are related to BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy devices) and Audio Video streaming.

So, for those with Polisy, it's much more economical to get the board and install it inside Polisy especially given the discount for Zooz dongles. When/if you decide to move to eisy, you can reuse the board by having a USB to mPCIe converter (which we will offer). 

With kind regards,
Michel

Thanks Michel. I apologize for asking so many questions. If I don't have a current need for Zigbee, what does this new board give me ?  Does it include Matter ? Cost considerations aside, what do I lose by not adding the new board and wait for Eisy ? I don't like much to tinker inside the Polisy (though I did it succesfully with my ISY) and others may be equally hesitant to open Polisy.

[Michel Kohanim]

@asbril, excellent questions! 

1. Improved range and routing
2. S2
3. Scenes
4. Smart Start (add devices by scanning QR codes)
5. OTA
6. Diagnostics
--> Z-Wave Plus Certification 

More importantly, the firmware inside this dongle is different than the one inside Zooz. So, we will not be making any more improvements on the previous implementation.

But, if you are happy with what you already have, then it might not make sense.

With kind regards,
Michel
 

[asbril]

1 minute ago, Michel Kohanim said:

@asbril, excellent questions! 

1. Improved range and routing
2. S2
3. Scenes
4. Smart Start (add devices by scanning QR codes)
5. OTA
6. Diagnostics
--> Z-Wave Plus Certification 

More importantly, the firmware inside this dongle is different than the one inside Zooz. So, we will not be making any more improvements on the previous implementation.

But, if you are happy with what you already have, then it might not make sense.

With kind regards,
Michel
 

Thanks Michel, that makes sense and I will go for it. Just two more questions 😁....

(1) what about Matter ?

(2) what is the ETA for Eisy ?

[lilyoyo1]

42 minutes ago, asbril said:

Thanks Michel, that makes sense and I will go for it. Just two more questions 😁....

(1) what about Matter ?

(2) what is the ETA for Eisy ?

Matter isn't ready yet. The board is Matters ready. Once it's released and ready, the board will be updated via a firmware update

https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/37523-matterz-zmatter/?do=findComment&comment=347794

[asbril]

21 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Matter isn't ready yet. The board is Matters ready. Once it's released and ready, the board will be updated via a firmware update

https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/37523-matterz-zmatter/?do=findComment&comment=347794

Understood. I still would like to know the ETA of Eisy. I believed that it was supposed to be this month, but now I see that the new board will be this month and Eisy ?

[Techman]

@Michel Kohanim

Are you planning to continue selling the Polisy once the eisy is released?

 

[Michel Kohanim]

@asbril,

Matter is not ready but we are hoping that we can support Zigbee and then operate in dual mode when Matter is ready (working on it). 

eisy, we are hoping for end of November.

@Techman,

Depends on the availability of parts. But, from the way it looks now, it's highly unlikely.

 

With kind regards,
Michel

[x046866x]

I am eagerly awaiting eisy!  Not being one that has ever been accused of being patient I hope the November date holds still.  If I could buy a Polisy and upgrade the board later I probably would.

While these may be premature, and may be answered when the device is ready, I thought I'd throw them out there:

- I have an ISY994; will the migration be as easy as a Polisy migration (backup Polisy, restore eisy)?
- I have a 2413s with RJ45 connectors.  I saw another thread that was a bit confusing because some had PLM with DB9 and others had Polisy with DB9.  I'm not going to run out and buy connectors today or anything, but will there be a neat solution to connecting the eisy to my existing RJ45 based 2413s?
- I place my ISY994 about 20 feet from my PLM in order to optimize Z-wave and PLM placement.  Will that cable distance be a problem?

Apologies if this is in the wrong thread as the questions are not MatterZ related.  Happy to move if that is helpful.

[x046866x]

NOTE on naming: Z-Wave/Matter module; "MatterZ" already has significant search collision already.  That could be good or bad:
Good: more exposure "by accident"
Bad: confusion over what the heck it is by those actually looking for it

One could argue that you could still accomplish the "Good" with some clever SEO meta data though.

FWIW: I voted "ZMatter".  Like "What is ZMatter?" (stupid catch phrase, I know).

[asbril]

31 minutes ago, x046866x said:

NOTE on naming: Z-Wave/Matter module; "MatterZ" already has significant search collision already.  That could be good or bad:
Good: more exposure "by accident"
Bad: confusion over what the heck it is by those actually looking for it

One could argue that you could still accomplish the "Good" with some clever SEO meta data though.

FWIW: I voted "ZMatter".  Like "What is ZMatter?" (stupid catch phrase, I know).

Yeah, I am not fond of any of these names. As a Zwave user myself, I think that including the Z detracts from the fact that the new box is so much more than Zwave. I did not come up with something catchy, but I am thinking of the "Universal "  in UD with Matter, but as said I have no specific suggestions (especially this early in the morning).

[lilyoyo1]

56 minutes ago, asbril said:

Yeah, I am not fond of any of these names. As a Zwave user myself, I think that including the Z detracts from the fact that the new box is so much more than Zwave. I did not come up with something catchy, but I am thinking of the "Universal "  in UD with Matter, but as said I have no specific suggestions (especially this early in the morning).

I'm not as concerned about the name since it's geared towards UDI. The board can only be used with polisy/eisy so it's not something the general public would be searching for. Its not like it'll work with homeseer or smartthings. 

New buyers will most likely buy an eisy or polisy with everything included. Existing customers will probably have more familiarity with things so the name doesn't matter as much. 

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, x046866x said:

I am eagerly awaiting eisy!  Not being one that has ever been accused of being patient I hope the November date holds still.  If I could buy a Polisy and upgrade the board later I probably would.

While these may be premature, and may be answered when the device is ready, I thought I'd throw them out there:

- I have an ISY994; will the migration be as easy as a Polisy migration (backup Polisy, restore eisy)?
- I have a 2413s with RJ45 connectors.  I saw another thread that was a bit confusing because some had PLM with DB9 and others had Polisy with DB9.  I'm not going to run out and buy connectors today or anything, but will there be a neat solution to connecting the eisy to my existing RJ45 based 2413s?
- I place my ISY994 about 20 feet from my PLM in order to optimize Z-wave and PLM placement.  Will that cable distance be a problem?

Apologies if this is in the wrong thread as the questions are not MatterZ related.  Happy to move if that is helpful.

https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/37617-next-gen-teaser/#comment-344507

@Geddy with all the eisy/Matter/matterz board talk on different threads, is it possible to create a new channel for it so we can keep it somewhat in 1 place for those not aware of existing information since it's spread out

Edited September 15, 2022 by lilyoyo1