Adjusting Ramp Rate on ZEN77

[Athlon]

New to Z-Wave this week. So far so good. Installed a ZS10 700 on my Polisy and three ZEN77s so far.

I've been able to change the action and color of the LEDs on the 77s, but I don't have any success changing the ramp rate.

According to this...

https://www.support.getzooz.com/kb/article/550-zen77-s2-dimmer-700-advanced-settings/

... the ramp rate should be parameter 9. I've been trying 9, 20 to test but the light still comes on at the default rate.

>>>>

By the way - we wanted the LEDs to be on all of the time (a little bit of help to see the switches a night), so I set the parameter for those to 2, 3. And because they are outside lights I wanted a visual on whether they are on or off from the switches in the foyer, so I set a program as follows to change the LED color from blue (off) to green (on). Works and looks great!

Driveway Lights LED Color - [ID 0036][Parent 0001]

If
        'Driveway Lights' Status is not Off
 
Then
        Set 'Driveway Lights' Set Configuration Parameter 23 = 2
 
Else
        Set 'Driveway Lights' Set Configuration Parameter 23 = 1

 

[Dub]

Good morning @Athlon!  I had the same issue myself a few weeks ago.  I only had 1 dimmer in the kids bedroom, so I haven't spent much time on it.  I installed a second one in another room this week.  I will give it a try and report back if I have the same results as you.  If I remember correctly I could set the default on level, but couldn't get the ramp rate set correctly.  I  only started with Z-Wave a few weeks ago.  One thing I tried to do after setting the parameter was query the parameter to make sure it was set to what I expected it to be.  

[Dub]

I just tried with the new dimmer and the old.  I set 9 to 20.  Both work as expect with a 20 second ramp rate for power on and power off the light.  The way I set it was right light the Dimmer in the Left Pane of the Admin Console.  Then clicked "Set Configuration Parameter". That menu I can easily query the value as well.  In your post above you are setting one by a program and I assume the other from the Main Admin Console on the switch itself.  I think this may have been my issue before, I have been making so many changes, but do remember having a similar issue.

[Athlon]

18 minutes ago, WHaas said:

I just tried with the new dimmer and the old.  I set 9 to 20.  Both work as expect with a 20 second ramp rate for power on and power off the light.  The way I set it was right light the Dimmer in the Left Pane of the Admin Console.  Then clicked "Set Configuration Parameter". That menu I can easily query the value as well.  In your post above you are setting one by a program and I assume the other from the Main Admin Console on the switch itself.  I think this may have been my issue before, I have been making so many changes, but do remember having a similar issue.

Thanks for this.

The program I posted in my OP is not related to my ramp rate issue. I posted it to show how I change the LED colors on the fly and to show I know how to change parameters.

Until your post I was changing parameters on the main screen (or by a program) rather than right clicking on the device.

I had not looked at the 'right click' menu on the device itself on the 'Main' tab. Thanks for pointing that out to me. I tried it - the query works for parameters, but when I change 9 to 20 to test, the lamp still comes on at the default speed (no change).

Edited July 30, 2022 by Athlon

[Dub]

40 minutes ago, Athlon said:

The program I posted in my OP is not related to my ramp rate issue. I posted it to show how I change the LED colors on the fly and to show I know how to change parameters.

I was following you, its probably my poorly worded response.   .  Thats what got me me to think to give more details about my process, so I appreciate the extra info.  All information is relevant....it sometimes might just let you know you have a bad source haha.

Since you can change by program on the LED based off the light status, have you tried changing the ramp rate with a program?

If the program changes it, we could isolate the problem down to the process for manually changing the parameters vs a problem with the Z-Wave device.

I swear I had this problem with ramp rate on this dimmer on the first one I installed, but I have had so many changes recently I can't pin point what could have made any difference.  I can tell you everything(Polisy, HA/Ameridroid..etc) has been restarted and the breaker turned off and back in for that room...but it could have been me changing the parameter wrong a few a weeks ago.

What I do to query the parameter after I set it, is changed the field to something else then query....the response will be from the switch from what I can tell.  I did this when I tested this morning....I changed the ramp rate parameter to 20, hit set, then changed the parameter to 19,  but hit query, not set and then saw the parameter came back as 20.

[Athlon]

2 hours ago, WHaas said:

I was following you, its probably my poorly worded response.   .  Thats what got me me to think to give more details about my process, so I appreciate the extra info.  All information is relevant....it sometimes might just let you know you have a bad source haha.

Since you can change by program on the LED based off the light status, have you tried changing the ramp rate with a program?

If the program changes it, we could isolate the problem down to the process for manually changing the parameters vs a problem with the Z-Wave device.

I swear I had this problem with ramp rate on this dimmer on the first one I installed, but I have had so many changes recently I can't pin point what could have made any difference.  I can tell you everything(Polisy, HA/Ameridroid..etc) has been restarted and the breaker turned off and back in for that room...but it could have been me changing the parameter wrong a few a weeks ago.

What I do to query the parameter after I set it, is changed the field to something else then query....the response will be from the switch from what I can tell.  I did this when I tested this morning....I changed the ramp rate parameter to 20, hit set, then changed the parameter to 19,  but hit query, not set and then saw the parameter came back as 20.

Yep - I did something similar to test the query function.

Seems I got the light to come on and off instantly with 9,0 - but 9, 'anything else' does not cause it to ramp up or down at all now - even if the query returns the last value I set it for.

I'll try to set it on a program later today and report back here.

[Athlon]

OK - Here's what I've discovered about these Z-Wave dimmers:

Except for ramp rate, if I set a parameter using ISY (IoP in my case), it doesn't matter how I turn the light on or off - the parameters I set work fine.

My choices for turning on my lights:

Alexa, my PC using IoP, UD Mobil,  Home Assistant or at the switch itself.

With ramp rate my parameter setting only works at the switch (manual turning on or off) with one exception. And that's what it says at the website I linked earlier, by the way. "Values correspond to the number of seconds it take for the dimmer to reach full brightness or turn off when operated manually."

The only exception for me is in UD Mobile. If I click 'Fade Up' or 'Fade Down' (not simply 'On' or 'Off') the lights seem to be using my ramp rate setting.

I'm okay with the way my switches are operating for now, so I'm going to leave these alone. I would like to know how to get the switch to remember my ramp rate setting, however, should I want that to happen regardless of how I turn them on or off.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Athlon

[Dub]

1 hour ago, Athlon said:

Except for ramp rate, if I set a parameter using ISY (IoP in my case), it doesn't matter how I turn the light on or off - the parameters I set work fine.

Interesting good catch.   I was only trying at the switch.  You and I both use HA so I’m testing from there.

I created a scene in Polisy, added my Zooz Zen 77, changed the scene to send a command with “On”, Defined a Fade rate of 20 seconds to get the light to 100%.  It seemed to work when I turned the light on through my HA app on my phone.  

(Edit) Correction on the behavior when I turn the scene off in HA and a typo above regarding 20 seconds(I had 20%).  When I turn the scene off in HA, the lights connected to the Zooz Zen 77 go off at their normal speed, not at the 20 second ramp rate.  One other behavior to not is when I turn the switch not the scene off in Polisy, the scene shows off in HA.

I'm not sure that 2 scenes is is the cleanest way to get the ramp rate to work on power on and power off...but that is my next thought....and I hate it!

I can keep looking on side for options unless we hear from someone with more experience with Zooz.

Edited July 30, 2022 by WHaas
Typo correction on 20% to 20 Seconds. Behavior of turning off scene in HA.

[oskrypuch]

I gave up on this, and just use a full rate and final value definition for any ON & OFF commands with the Zooz switches.

If there is a way to set the default ramp and ON value (when not using a physical touch), I'd love to know how.

* Orest

Edited July 31, 2022 by oskrypuch

[Athlon]

12 hours ago, oskrypuch said:

If there is a way to set the default ramp and ON value (when not using a physical touch), I'd love to know how.

+1

[Athlon]

@oskrypuch I just found this: https://www.support.getzooz.com/kb/article/319-zen22-dimmer-switch-ver-4-01-advanced-settings/

These parameters are for when you turn the switches on or off with a Z-Wave command (not physically at the switch).

It's for ZEN22s, parameter 17. (I don't know which model you have.) I tried using parameter 17 on a ZEN77 but it won't 'take' it.

Edited August 1, 2022 by Athlon

[Athlon]

For ZEN72s it's parameters 28 (on) and 29 (off).

These parameters are for when you turn the switches on or off with a Z-Wave command (not physically at the switch).

Edited August 1, 2022 by Athlon

[Athlon]

For ZEN30s it was parameter 22 but they removed the ability in firmware 1.05! WTF?

[Athlon]

?

I may have found something for my ZEN77s! See the ZEN77 firmware update notes here for release 10.20. It was released in July 2022 as an OTA release.

https://thesmartesthouse.happyfox.com/kb/article/850-zen77-700-series-s2-dimmer-change-log/

The notes include the following:

"Separated ramp rate settings into 4 new parameters: ramp rate ON physical (9), ramp rate OFF physical (27), ramp rate ON Z-Wave (28), ramp rate OFF Z-Wave (29)."

Instructions on how to do an OTA update are linked at the bottom of that page. I'm gonna give that a go sometime today.

Edited August 1, 2022 by Athlon

[oskrypuch]

So, it looks like this issue has been addressed by zooz, with the addition of three more settings. Same configs are present now in Zen72 as well.

Of course doing a firmware update involves a lot of fiddly legwork at the moment. I'll just continue using ZWave ON/OFF with an explicit value and ramp rate for now, in Polisy, hoping that the new UD zwave boards (this Fall) allow for direct firmware updates.

* Orest

Edited August 1, 2022 by oskrypuch

[Athlon]

Just now, oskrypuch said:

So, it looks like this issue has been addressed by zooz, with the addition of three more settings. Same configs are present now in Zen72 as well.

Of course doing a firmware update involves a lot of fiddly legwork at the moment. I'll just continue using ZWave ON/OFF with an explicit value and ramp rate for now, in Polisy.

* Orest

You are correct about the fiddly legwork bit. ?

I'm waiting for the file from Zooz - have to email them for it.

As for installing that software - wow - talk about having to jump through hoops.

I have the time to do this today, so I'll report back here either way when I have some results.

[Dub]

3 hours ago, Athlon said:

I may have found something for my ZEN77s! See the ZEN77 firmware update notes here for release 10.20. It was released in July 2022 as an OTA release.

Great find!!

 

2 hours ago, Athlon said:

You are correct about the fiddly legwork bit. ?

I did an update of my Zooz USB stick with the simplicity studio.  I’m still not sure how I got it upgraded.?

Something wasn’t really clear to me about the additional modules(my words) that Simplicity Studio needed

Wishing you good luck on this and anxious to see what you find!

[Athlon]

6 minutes ago, Dub aka WHaas said:

Something wasn’t really clear to me about the additional modules(my words) that Simplicity Studio needed

I installed the Gecko one and the two Z-Wave ones.

About 1 minute ago I finally received an email from Zooz allowing me to download the file. I should be able to attempt the upgrade soon... 

[Athlon]

I giving up on the firmware update for now (a bit frustrated). The software 'sees' the dongle and three switches, but will not update the switches.

It gets stuck on the first bite. I even tried to exclude one of the switches first to see if that was it - didn't help.

I also plugged the dongle into my RPi to see if I could use HA's Z-Wave integration to do the update (seems like it would be easier to do it there, by the way), but my HA setup did not see the dongle. If anyone know how to get it going there, please let me know.

The good news is I didn't brick anything, and simply plugging the dongle back into my Polisy brought the switches back to the way I had them after rebooting.

[Athlon]

With a lot of help from @Dub aka WHaasI finally got my ZEN77's firmware updated.

I dumped the Simplicity Studio software - what a nightmare to use. I followed Zooz's step by step instructions three times - no joy at all.

Then I pulled the dongle out from my Polisy and stuck it into my RPi.

HA makes it super easy to update the firmware. Simply add Z-Wave as an Add-On, then add Z-Wave as an Integration, go to your Z-Wave devices panel (HA sees them instantly) and update their firmware from there.

Then I put the dongle back into my Polisy and restarted it. From ISY I can now program the new parameters 28 and 29, ramp up and ramp down. And the new rates work regardless of how I turn the lights on or off.

Easy Peasy ?

Edited August 2, 2022 by Athlon

[Bumbershoot]

1 hour ago, Athlon said:

With a lot of help from @Dub aka WHaasI finally got my ZEN77's firmware updated.

I dumped the Simplicity Studio software - what a nightmare to use. I followed Zooz's step by step instructions three times - no joy at all.

Then I pulled the dongle out from my Polisy and stuck it into my RPi.

HA makes it super easy to update the firmware. Simply add Z-Wave as an Add-On, then add Z-Wave as an Integration, go to your Z-Wave devices panel (HA sees them instantly) and update their firmware from there.

Then I put the dongle back into my Polisy and restarted it. From ISY I can now program the new parameters 28 and 29, ramp up and ramp down. And the new rates work regardless of how I turn the lights on or off.

Easy Peasy ?

Thanks for going through all of that, and I'm happy to see that Zooz is continuing to upgrade their firmware.  I've got a few of these dimmers still in the box.

I'm not running HA, so I'm going to wait for the upcoming Z-Wave/Matter board from UDI before I even think about jumping through those hoops...  Then, hopefully, we'll be able to update the firmware from our Polisy.

[oskrypuch]

Don't use HA, and don't have a Pi.

But, could install HA into a VM. Wonder if that would allow for the updates.

* Orest

[Athlon]

4 minutes ago, oskrypuch said:

Don't use HA, and don't have a Pi.

But, could install HA into a VM. Wonder if that would allow for the updates.

* Orest

My guess is yes. As long as you have HA running it should work. Let me know if you get stuck after you get HA running in a VM.

[Dub]

21 minutes ago, oskrypuch said:

But, could install HA into a VM. Wonder if that would allow for the updates.

I think so too.  I'm using Ameridroid/Odroid dedicated hardware now, but started with Virtual Box.  

It was pretty straightforward.  You will need to make sure (if you use Virtual Box) to add the USB port to the VM so it gets exposed to the VM.

One trick that I learned on Virtual Box and I think helped @Athlon yesterday was once the  Z-Wave USB Stick is exposed to the VM, it still needs to be configured in HA.  I had to when I first configured HA, remove the Z-Wave USB Stick to create an error in the logs to expose the path HA needed to use the Z-Wave.  Yesterday when I tested this it was the Supervisor Logs(HA has lots of log options). Thats probably the biggest hangup I had when doing Virtual Box, but it should work pretty well and hopefully that can save you some headache.  

I'm doing another test today with another Dimmer, because I'm not sure I could use the new firmware features on HA without excluding/including in HA.  Ultimately I want to better understand the process, but the firmware update in HA went smoothly.

[Athlon]

34 minutes ago, Bumbershoot said:

I'm not running HA, so I'm going to wait for the upcoming Z-Wave/Matter board from UDI before I even think about jumping through those hoops...  Then, hopefully, we'll be able to update the firmware from our Polisy.

 

4 minutes ago, Dub aka WHaas said:

One trick that I learned on Virtual Box and I think helped @Athlon yesterday was once the  Z-Wave USB Stick is exposed to the VM, it still needs to be configured in HA.  I had to when I first configured HA, remove the Z-Wave USB Stick to create an error in the logs to expose the path HA needed to use the Z-Wave.  Yesterday when I tested this it was the Supervisor Logs(HA has lots of log options). Thats probably the biggest hangup I had when doing Virtual Box, but it should work pretty well and hopefully that can save you some headache.  

I didn't have to expose my USB port and dongle to HA after all. HA found it automatically after I added Z-Wave correctly. YMMV using a VM, however.

In HA, when I added Z-Wave as an Add-On first, then as an Integration (in that order), everything happened automatically. (I was doing it the other way around when I was having trouble.)

This is also interesting...

The parameters available to HA do not, it seems, rely on the firmware in the device, but instead they are loaded from a database of every Z-Wave device available on the planet. So, until someone updates that database, the new ZEN77 firmware (10.20)'s parameters will not show up in HA.

That's the great thing about IoP in that regard - it uses a drop down box to change the parameters. Because all parameter numbers are always listed (available or not) in the drop-down, you can set them right away after upgrading. If you happen to choose a parameter that's not available for your device,  IoP simply returns a 255.

So, although we can't update the firmware in IoP - we can use the new parameters while HA cannot!

Here's the link to that HA database:

https://devices.zwave-js.io/?jumpTo=0x027a:0x7000:0xa007:0.0

You'll see that the parameters for the ZEN77 have not been updated for use in HA yet, even if you update the firmware.