Alexa

[asbril]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-has-launched-a-cost-cutting-review-focused-on-unprofitable-business-units-11668094823?st=aitapml4sdge32v&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

 

Review takes a close look at devices unit, which includes Alexa and has had an annual operating loss of $5 billion in some recent years, documents show

 

The company is currently considering whether it should focus on trying to add new capabilities to Alexa, a voice assistant available on a variety of Amazon devices. Adding capabilities would require greater investment, and many customers use the device for only a few functions, some of the people said.

 

Amazon said that while features like playing music are popular, customers also regularly use Alexa for other services such as controlling their smart homes and shopping and that the company continues to invest in introducing new Alexa experiences.

The Amazon spokesman said the company is “as optimistic about Alexa’s future today as we’ve ever been, and it remains an important business and area of investment for Amazon.” He said customer interactions with Alexa have increased by more than 30% in the past year.

Edited November 10, 2022 by asbril

[Geddy]

37 minutes ago, asbril said:

the company continues to invest in introducing new Alexa experiences.

Well I, for one, would hope they find a developer that understands what it means when a user sets a setting that we only want to see a clock (on the Show formats) means "ONLY SHOW THE CLOCK". I have 2 small show that I just want/use as clocks in rooms. It never fails that when I look at them there's some ad or notice or alert taking over the screen and the time is so tiny you can't see it from across the room. 

I've also turned off getting Amazon shipping notifications several times, but they keep being reset to being on. And they're off for all accounts in the house.

To me the larger Show screens are probably nice to have multiple things showing on them during the day, but these small (5") screens are best used for clocks and all the other crap they show on them is useless in probably 80% of the applications they are used in. IMO

So...Alexa/Echo...be a clock...be a glorified light switch. But for goodness sakes...follow the settings entered by your master!

 

[asbril]

I very much agree with you.

[asbril]

Alexa: Voice assistants face deep cuts

 

https://www.axios.com/2022/11/29/voice-assistant-siri-alexa-apple-amazon

[larryllix]

I guess the handwriting was on the wall as it is for every product that requires a continuous service and yet the device is sold without any subscription fees.

This reminds me of the fitness and martial art gyms that used the "Buy two years and get a lifetime membership" sales technique to get their initial equipment setup funds. Eventually nobody is paying any fees and the gym goes belly-up.

** sigh ** too bad.

Regardless, I will never buy something verbally on Alexa or GH. I find it bad enough buying products via a simple photo and half baked description from an online vendor that only learned English a year ago. At times, I am convinced they fake bad English translation in order to make the poor product descriptions acceptable to the gullible buyer. Not likely I will ever buy things on verbal command. I just don't see the advantage of it and still distrust the whole system too much.

[Geddy]

29 minutes ago, larryllix said:

online vendor that only learned English a year ago

A year? You're being generous. 

 

30 minutes ago, larryllix said:

I just don't see the advantage of it and still distrust the whole system too much.

While I also cannot trust the system all that much it certainly is "the system" that we are/were heading toward. While it was a joke that Amazon will know what you need before you know you need it wasn't far from the truth. If you've ever bought household consumables from Amazon they are good with ads or reminders to buy again based on normal consumption if you buy it multiple times. And that's not the "subscribe & save" program they have. It was scary at times (pre-Covid) how close to running out of something we were. 

Amazon attempted to make "Alexa only purchase discounts" a thing. Sadly, there's only so many trinket type things people would/could buy, and often times Amazon limited purchases to one per account so it wouldn't be repeat purchase (certainly not at the discounted price). Casual shoppers want to see pictures and price rather than just saying "Alexa send me something that I need". 

If they could have tied into local (or national) pizza companies a little better I could see a way to say "Alexa, order pizza for family game night" and get pre-set/favorite order delivered to your door 30-45 minutes later. 

Should be interesting to see how the landscape changes on these devices in the future. 

[larryllix]

In actuality Amazon is bending the truth somewhat on their whining. The thing they forgot is the $10 per month they get out of every shopper in the household that subscribes to Prime.

While Prime members get some free videos and some free music on their Alexa boxes it seems they forgot to attribute all those funds towards the Alexa profits.

Amazon's true colours had to come out sooner or later and I hope we don't see a collapse only to find they produced another product that requires a monthly subscription. Of course that may avoid the class action suit from people that bought the promised for a one time fixed fee. Oh Wait! I bought about 10 of them.

[asbril]

I have both Google Home and Alexa devices in my home. I use the GH mostly to cast music (AV Remote Node Server) and Alexa, more than GH,  to control my smart home devices (UD Skill). What I like about the Amazon devices are the Echos with Clock.  I replaced the alarm clocks in the bedrooms with these Echo devices as the time is always accurate and no need to change for  DST.

I don't see either Google or Amazon to withdraw from these devices but the apparent lack of profitability may reduce the dollars for new developments, unless they come out with something that would drive that profitability.

Edited November 29, 2022 by asbril

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, asbril said:

I have both Google Home and Alexa devices in my home. I use the GH mostly to cast music (AV Remote Node Server) and Alexa, more than GH,  to control my smart home devices (UD Skill). What I like about the Amazon devices are the Echos with Clock.  I replaced the alarm clocks in the bedrooms with these Echo devices as the time is always accurate and no need to change for  DST.

I don't see either Google or Amazon to withdraw from these devices but the apparent lack of profitability may reduce the dollars for new developments, unless they come out with something that would drive that profitability.

My question is how does this impact matter long term. Amazon and google were major drivers behind it. If they aren't seeing how it would be profitable to them, how long will it be before they move on

[asbril]

8 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

My question is how does this impact matter long term. Amazon and google were major drivers behind it. If they aren't seeing how it would be profitable to them, how long will it be before they move on

Maybe but......

I believe that Jeff Bezos once said that eventually all companies will go bankrupt, including Amazon. A bit similar to what my urologist said that all men will die from prostate cancer unless they die from something else first (sorry for this lugubre comparison). The fact is that both Google and Amazon have money losing businesses (Amazon Prime's free delivery and Google  free email), but these  feed more profitable part of the companies.

[upstatemike]

I am fine if they stop development of new Echo models and features. I can live with the functionality I have. The problem will come if they start shutting down services and deprecating already existing features, much the way they decided to stop supporting the original Amazon Cloudcams and replace them with fee based Blink units.

[lilyoyo1]

26 minutes ago, asbril said:

Maybe but......

I believe that Jeff Bezos once said that eventually all companies will go bankrupt, including Amazon. A bit similar to what my urologist said that all men will die from prostate cancer unless they die from something else first (sorry for this lugubre comparison). The fact is that both Google and Amazon have money losing businesses (Amazon Prime's free delivery and Google  free email), but these  feed more profitable part of the companies.

It's not so much about them going out of business but the willingness to expand on what Matter can do. If the drivers of a technology doesn't see the ROI that they're looking for, what push do they have to innovate or create? Long term, we could be talking about another standard to end all other standards again. 

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, asbril said:

The fact is that both Google and Amazon have money losing businesses (Amazon Prime's free delivery and Google  free email), but these  feed more profitable part of the companies.

Having products that lose money to bring customers in is one thing. Having it cost you 10 billion in 1 year is another....especially when that product isn't bringing enough money in through other means. At some point, investors will look at those numbers and want to see them come down.

This can mean higher priced products, less innovative products, more fee based services, and less innovation overall. 

All in all, this impacts the future of smart homes. While smarthomes aren't going anywhere, the lack of investment can and will impact things going forward.

Look at zwave. You'll find a few devices from certain mfg. with cool features and technological upgrades such as stronger radios but overall the protocol is stagnant in regards to moving forward with usability. 

I see the same thing with Matter if the big companies behind it do not see how it helps their bottom line overall. With them cutting back on investing in their own ecosystems, how likely are they to cut back on Matters when it's on more of an equal footing? 

[larryllix]

I have both Google Home and Alexa devices in my home. I use the GH mostly to cast music (AV Remote Node Server) and Alexa, more than GH,  to control my smart home devices (UD Skill). What I like about the Amazon devices are the Echos with Clock.  I replaced the alarm clocks in the bedrooms with these Echo devices as the time is always accurate and no need to change for  DST.
I don't see either Google or Amazon to withdraw from these devices but the apparent lack of profitability may reduce the dollars for new developments, unless they come out with something that would drive that profitability.

Careful depending on Alexa for timers. I had one fail, not reporting a timer done, and burnt the crap out of my baking venture.

Don't know why or how but I know the timer was set, and it has never done it since, that I know of.

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

[asbril]

1 hour ago, larryllix said:

Careful depending on Alexa for timers. I had one fail, not reporting a timer done, and burnt the crap out of my baking venture.

Don't know why or how but I know the timer was set, and it has never done it since, that I know of.

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk
 

Or is it just an excuse for not being a recognized Chef ?  

[upstatemike]

5 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Having products that lose money to bring customers in is one thing. Having it cost you 10 billion in 1 year is another....especially when that product isn't bringing enough money in through other means. At some point, investors will look at those numbers and want to see them come down.

This can mean higher priced products, less innovative products, more fee based services, and less innovation overall. 

All in all, this impacts the future of smart homes. While smarthomes aren't going anywhere, the lack of investment can and will impact things going forward.

Look at zwave. You'll find a few devices from certain mfg. with cool features and technological upgrades such as stronger radios but overall the protocol is stagnant in regards to moving forward with usability. 

I see the same thing with Matter if the big companies behind it do not see how it helps their bottom line overall. With them cutting back on investing in their own ecosystems, how likely are they to cut back on Matters when it's on more of an equal footing? 

But what happens if Amazon eventually abandons Alexa? One of the reasons I use FireTV Sticks and Amazon Music is because of they way they interact with Alexa. If Alexa goes away then FireTV becomes no more compelling than Roku. Once I switch to Roku I might decide that Amazon Prime Video is no longer competitive with my other streaming video options and that there are better Music streaming services than Amazon. Once those services are no longer attractive the cost of an Amazon Prime membership seems high if the only benfit to me is free shipping so I cancel that. Once free shipping is gone there is little incentive for me to go to Amazon first when searching for online products so I start doing more general web searches to find products and spend my money in the direct outlets for those products or at other online competitors to Amazon like WalMart. Now multiply my scenario across millions of former Amazon Echo users...

Amazon will surely miss the days when they only lost a few billion dollars selling Alexa compared the the hundres of billions they would indirectly lose as a result of getting rid of the product. 

[asbril]

2 hours ago, upstatemike said:

But what happens if Amazon eventually abandons Alexa? One of the reasons I use FireTV Sticks and Amazon Music is because of they way they interact with Alexa. If Alexa goes away then FireTV becomes no more compelling than Roku. Once I switch to Roku I might decide that Amazon Prime Video is no longer competitive with my other streaming video options and that there are better Music streaming services than Amazon. Once those services are no longer attractive the cost of an Amazon Prime membership seems high if the only benfit to me is free shipping so I cancel that. Once free shipping is gone there is little incentive for me to go to Amazon first when searching for online products so I start doing more general web searches to find products and spend my money in the direct outlets for those products or at other online competitors to Amazon like WalMart. Now multiply my scenario across millions of former Amazon Echo users...

Amazon will surely miss the days when they only lost a few billion dollars selling Alexa compared the the hundres of billions they would indirectly lose as a result of getting rid of the product. 

I have of course not a clue of what Amazon will decide to do with Alexa, but you make my point that all these Amazon services are inter-connected and that it is (in my humble view) unlikely that Amazon will abandon Alexa. However it is well possible that going forward it will not spend big $$$ on future Alexa developments.

Edited November 30, 2022 by asbril

[upstatemike]

It is the same thing. No further development plus cut too deep into the staff to even maintain it. They have already discontinued Alexa whether they meant to or not.

[lilyoyo1]

14 hours ago, upstatemike said:

But what happens if Amazon eventually abandons Alexa? One of the reasons I use FireTV Sticks and Amazon Music is because of they way they interact with Alexa. If Alexa goes away then FireTV becomes no more compelling than Roku. Once I switch to Roku I might decide that Amazon Prime Video is no longer competitive with my other streaming video options and that there are better Music streaming services than Amazon. Once those services are no longer attractive the cost of an Amazon Prime membership seems high if the only benfit to me is free shipping so I cancel that. Once free shipping is gone there is little incentive for me to go to Amazon first when searching for online products so I start doing more general web searches to find products and spend my money in the direct outlets for those products or at other online competitors to Amazon like WalMart. Now multiply my scenario across millions of former Amazon Echo users...

Amazon will surely miss the days when they only lost a few billion dollars selling Alexa compared the the hundres of billions they would indirectly lose as a result of getting rid of the product. 

There are no what ifs. Voice assistants aren't t going anywhere. They're far too ingrained into our society now. Prices may rise or sales may not be as frequent or drastic but i can't see them abandoning Alexa completely. New features may simply be limited or take more time to come to fruition.

What i see happening is more involved routines/features will probably require a subscription. Hardware will probably be broken up as well. 1 line for consumers that offers basic features with a subscription to more advanced stuff. These can follow the same path that Amazon takes now in regards to pricing and sales. They could then offer a pro line which costs more but is more feature rich. This can be used with or without a subscription for some services. If a subscription is desired by Amazon, they can offer it for a year or 2 without one. 

Most people who use prime use it for the shipping benefits not specifically for video, music, Alexa, books, etc. In fact, numerous studies have shown that close to 80% use prime for the expedited shipping. Everything else is just fluff. It's like my credit card. 99% of the reason everything goes on it is for travel points. The additional offers are nice but those aren't my main drivers.

Most people (prime or not)who buy from Amazon overall do so because of product selection, ease of shopping, and returns. 

You are probably in the minority when it comes to how much your Amazon world revolves around being able to turn your tv on with the remote. There have been numerous studies online that constantly show that music, weather, and lighting is the biggest use of Alexa. Most do not use it to turn on their TV's and change channels/apps. 

Dig into those studies even more, even smarthomes usage is probably the least used feature since most people only interact with them a few times a week.

The point I'm making by saying all this is; "Millions of prime ( & non prime) members will not be going anywhere". There probably will be some with your line of thinking but most likely they'll still use it from time to time. Just reading your description of your new potential buying habits gave me a headache. It seems convoluted to say the least. With Amazon so ingrained in us, not many will go through making 20 minute searches for the best price only to end up at Amazon anyway for the lowest price. Even if something is found cheaper somewhere, the additional shipping expense and shipping time will probably send them back to Amazon to buy anyway. With all that said- Nothing would change. Besides, Amazon to a 10b loss like it was nothing. Think about how many years this went on for. Obviously it's not Alexa that's driving their business.