yet more internet issues

[Dinboise]

I have a 2wire 2700HG-D router. My ISY99ir is connected to it with a standard CAT5e cable and I am successful getting to the admin console from a wireless laptop on the network.

 

I can access the advanced set up options for my 2wire (through Qwest, the ISP)... I have read through the portforward.com info as to how to forward 443 to my ISY but the screen shots are way off... But that did not stop me from making it up. I got to the firewall settings and found an "advanced port forwarding" tab and added the following: 'starting port' = 443; 'ending port' = 443; Protocol = TCP (UDP other option); Lan IP address = the IP address found in the ISY help|about menu.

 

In fact everywhere I found an option to enable remote access I changed it to the affirmative. Still no go with the ISY's pull down offering to enable the internet... I rebooted too.

 

Basically, I am not that savy with the network protocol stuff. What else is there to do?

 

PS I am running windows7 on the desktop, but have XP on the laptop.

 

Thank you for your help

David

[brad77]

You don't need to run the ISY's "Enable Internet Access" command to access your ISY from the internet. That command is an "easy button." The ISY will attempt to automatically configure your router to forward the appropriate ports via UPnP (universal plug and play). This often doesn't work as many routers either don't support UPnP or don't have it enabled for such actions. For those who do, however, it's supposed to make things easier.

 

Now, it's quite possible that you've done what you needed to do by forwarding port 443 to your ISY's internal IP address. To test this, you should try accessing your external IP address in a browser using https (this will use port 443 implicitly). To find your external address, go to a site like http://whatismyip.com. For a "real" test, you should do this on a machine outside your network (or a mobile phone with a browser). Some routers won't allow you to access your external address from your internal network.

 

If you can access your ISY, you're done. If not, you'll need to make sure that you've configured the port forwarding on your router correctly. It could also be possible that your ISP is blocking this port.

 

It probably goes without saying, but it doesn't matter what computers you are using inside your network. No amount of configuring done on either of those machines will accomplish what you're looking to accomplish. This is a matter between your ISY and your router (and sometimes your ISP).

 

Lastly, it's possible that your external IP address change from time to time. As such, it's a good idea to set up dynamic DNS to allow you to use a host name instead of an IP address to access your ISY. It will also keep that host name up to date if your external IP address changes. I personally recommend DynDNS. Others may chime in with other recommendations.

[Dinboise]

The efforts to get online is really to update the software so that I can load the default IR codes. I have version 2.7.0 and understand that the version 2.7.1+ has a button in the IR config window to make this easy. I like easy after this trial.

 

I as yet can not update and I thought it had to do with the lack of internet connectivity/enablement...

 

Perhapse there is another way. I just registered it tonight and that might have something to do with it. I am told updates occure automatically, but when it did not occur upon initial instilation, I clicked on the "upgrade my lighting" under Tools tab. Perhapse that is for something else.

 

We shall see.

David

[Sub-Routine]

Hello David,

 

Enable Internet Access is different than the ISY accessing the internet for updates. Your PC can access the internet but that doesn't enable the internet to access it.

 

Please contact our support team and we can call or email to get you going. Phone is usually more productive.

 

Meanwhile I suggest you sign up for Beta 2.7.12.

 

Rand

 

The efforts to get online is really to update the software so that I can load the default IR codes. I have version 2.7.0 and understand that the version 2.7.1+ has a button in the IR config window to make this easy. I like easy after this trial.

 

I as yet can not update and I thought it had to do with the lack of internet connectivity/enablement...

 

Perhapse there is another way. I just registered it tonight and that might have something to do with it. I am told updates occure automatically, but when it did not occur upon initial instilation, I clicked on the "upgrade my lighting" under Tools tab. Perhapse that is for something else.

 

We shall see.

David

[Dinboise]

Thank guys for calling me back when you said you would and for letting me call you at the end of the day. The ISY is now responding to the IR codes from my old MX-700. yipee... I give up on the access from outside the network as my router is not compatible with static IP address unless I am to "rent" an IP from Quest... Still looking into other router options.

 

So the desktop that was running when the update was done connects just fine to the ISY... however the laptop which was connecting wel for the past few days now can not... I thought to empty the Java cache which went well I think from the laptop. But still no connection. ANy suggestions?

 

Thanks

Now onto linking the I/O linc.

 

David

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi David,

 

I just want to make sure we are talking about the same thing:

Static IP address is for your ISY and in 99.9% of the cases it has nothing to do with your ISP (such as Quest). What you want to do is to assign a static IP address for your ISY and the forward port 443 to that IP address.

 

As far as the console not working, would you be kind enough to let me know which URL you are using?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[brad77]

I give up on the access from outside the network as my router is not compatible with static IP address unless I am to "rent" an IP from Quest... Still looking into other router options.

Dinboise, if you still need to access your ISY from outside your home network, there is no need to purchase a new router or pay for a static IP from your ISP. That's what Dynamic DNS is for. A dynamic DNS service will provide you with a host name (not unlike www.universal-devices.com) that you can use to access your ISY remotely (instead of an IP address). That host name is then updated with your current IP address whenever it changes via your router or a piece of software installed on one of the computers in your home network.

 

You can find dynamic DNS services freely available. As I mentioned before, my personal recommendation is DynDNS.

 

Lastly, as Sub-Routine said, there is no need to use "enable Internet access" to do this, nor is it necessary to do any of this is all you need to do is have your ISY connect to the web to download updates.

 

I hope that helps.

[Dinboise]

I also updated the Java on the laptop but still no connection between the laptop and the ISY (again same network that was working just before I updated the program to 2.7.12)

 

As far as the dyndns issue, I was not clear - it is the actual router that will not support dyndns - that was per one of the tech guys at UD.

 

So how do I get the laptop to connect again to the ISY?

 

Thanks

David

[oberkc]

Michel - the URL is 192.168.x.x

 

I may be paranoid, but is that something you may want to keep off a public forum? Better make sure your password is something other than "admin"

 

Sorry I stepped on this. Rand

[Dinboise]

oberkc - sorry, I deleted that part of my post. Could you edit your post. I guess Michel wanted me to email him the URL.

 

Do you know how to reconnect a network PC that once worked. I was thinking of rebooting the ISY.

 

I am not so savy with this stuff as I am thinking I should be.

 

THanks

David

[Sub-Routine]

That address is not an issue. It is a local address assigned by your router to devices connected to your router. Only someone connected to your local area network (LAN) can access the ISY using that address.

 

When you use the desktop to access the ISY Administrative Console use the menu Help | About and view My URL. That is the address the laptop should use to connect to the ISY. It should be 192.168.x.x.

 

Rand

 

oberkc - sorry, I deleted that part of my post. Could you edit your post. I guess Michel wanted me to email him the URL.

 

Do you know how to reconnect a network PC that once worked. I was thinking of rebooting the ISY.

 

I am not so savy with this stuff as I am thinking I should be.

 

THanks

David

[Dinboise]

Yes - I have been using that URL from the notebook, I get the familiar web page with the java icon that begins to 'brew' but then stops giving me the bland x at the top left corner... It was working before the tech guy from Universal Devices (he was in Ontario, I forgot his name, sorry) helped me get the router to resornd to an outside request. It must have something to do with "reserving" the IP address.

 

I'll look at it later.

David

[Sub-Routine]

Can you use http://isy from the PCs?

[Dinboise]

In using the http://isy; I got to the web page needing my password, but then in trying to go to the admin page) I get the failed applet error.

 

I am thinking I need to remove Java then reinstal it.

 

hmm

 

yep-that's it. weird.

 

Working now.

 

Thanks for the words of wisdom

David

[Dinboise]

Hi David,

 

I just want to make sure we are talking about the same thing:

Static IP address is for your ISY and in 99.9% of the cases it has nothing to do with your ISP (such as Quest). What you want to do is to assign a static IP address for your ISY and the forward port 443 to that IP address.

 

As far as the console not working, would you be kind enough to let me know which URL you are using?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

In the last month I have had to get a new router and the Itouch app mobilinc. I am interested in getting set up to synch with the ISY via the internet. But I need an external IP address. It does not show me one in the My Lighting about tab. So I know my plugnplay router, though enabled for PnP, isn't cooperating. I was thinking of forwarding to port to 443. But as you state above I need to assign a static IP address. Portforward.com does not have my model and the Actiontec PK5000 paperwork is not that helpful (asking for a starting port, finishing port, protocol, and LAN IP address - at no point asking me what I want to forward to where) Too confusing for me. A computer network guy here in Boise convinced me that indeed Qwest does need to hand over a static IP address - that it is not up to me to just take one. But that's OK, I know I can use DynDNS, but at their web site they ask me for a host name.ath.cx (I thought they were supposed to give me one), and an IP address (though they tell me what my router's IP address is it is not the ISY's IP address) So is this the IP address I am supposed to give them? - And I have never heard of a TTL value either. In other words, once again I have no idea how I am supposed to sort through the information to come up with a solution. The outcome has real implications for the security of the ISY and computers - as the network guy I spoke to said if you forward a port you basically open up your router to anybody looking for open ports.

 

PS - The console has the 2.7.12 edition and is working well in all regards and can communicate with the mobilinc fine on the network, but the point of the iTOuch is to access it from outside the home network. Thus the need for the HTTPS address. URL = 192.168.0.3

 

I just don't know what I am mixing up. I could use some help

Thanks

David

[Sub-Routine]

Hi David,

 

To clarify things a bit:

 

Your Local Area Network (LAN) contains all the devices connected to your router. The router assigns address to these devices. The Internet is not involved. In your case these are all 192.168.0.x.

 

Your modem deals with the Internet. The router shares the Internet connection between all the devices on your LAN.

 

You may not need to assign a static IP address to the ISY.

a) Some routers allow you to reserve an address for a particular device using the device MAC address (DHCP Reservation).

Some routers port forward using the MAC address.

c) Most routers do not change the LAN addresses unless they are reset.

 

You are correct to forward ports 443 to 443 using TCP. The LAN address is the ISY address, in your case 192.168.0.103.

 

Opening a port to the ISY will do just that. It will not open a port to your modem, router, or your PCs. You will want to create your own User/Password to the ISY.

 

DynDNS is used instead of a static ISP address.

a) You create a domain name using any of the extensions available on DynDNS.

DynDNS needs your current ISP address to begin with, not the LAN address of the ISY.

c) The DynDNS application notifies DynDNS when your ISP address changes. The application may be in your router. If not you will need a PC to run the program.

d) Depending on your provider your ISP address may change often or almost never. My Comcast address hasn't changed in two years so I don't use DynDNS.

 

After you have set the port forwarding you will use https:// with your ISP address or your DynDNS domain name. The router will automatically forward the request to the ISY.

 

Help | About will not display your ISP address and there is no need to use File | Enable Internet Access if you set port forwarding in the router.

 

We usually have someone available M-F from 9-4 PT if you would like us to call you. 818 631 0333.

 

Rand

 

In the last month I have had to get a new router and the Itouch app mobilinc. I am interested in getting set up to synch with the ISY via the internet. But I need an external IP address. It does not show me one in the My Lighting about tab. So I know my plugnplay router, though enabled for PnP, isn't cooperating. I was thinking of forwarding to port to 443. But as you state above I need to assign a static IP address. Portforward.com does not have my model and the Actiontec PK5000 paperwork is not that helpful (asking for a starting port, finishing port, protocol, and LAN IP address - at no point asking me what I want to forward to where) Too confusing for me. A computer network guy here in Boise convinced me that indeed Qwest does need to hand over a static IP address - that it is not up to me to just take one. But that's OK, I know I can use DynDNS, but at their web site they ask me for a host name.ath.cx (I thought they were supposed to give me one), and an IP address (though they tell me what my router's IP address is it is not the ISY's IP address) So is this the IP address I am supposed to give them? - And I have never heard of a TTL value either. In other words, once again I have no idea how I am supposed to sort through the information to come up with a solution. The outcome has real implications for the security of the ISY and computers - as the network guy I spoke to said if you forward a port you basically open up your router to anybody looking for open ports.

 

PS - The console has the 2.7.12 edition and is working well in all regards and can communicate with the mobilinc fine on the network, but the point of the iTOuch is to access it from outside the home network. Thus the need for the HTTPS address. URL = 192.168.0.3

 

I just don't know what I am mixing up. I could use some help

Thanks

David

[brad77]

To add to Rand's very comprehensive post, the TTL is an acronym for "time to live." You shouldn't need to worry about changing this value. DynDNS sets this value very low (60 seconds) so that changes made by your router or DynDNS application are propagated to other DNS servers throughout the internet very quickly.

[Dinboise]

I do not want to be out of town and have my computer tell me the address has changed on my ISY and thus not be able to sync with the ISY. Will port forwarding solve this? It doesn't sound like it will, as qwest may still change the address to the modem.

 

Sounds like the DynDNS might be best sollution, as it will handle the changes for me. I understand some of you do not need this service as your ISP does not change the addresses much - and I do not know what qwest does.

 

If I choose to use DynDNS do I need to portforward?

 

Thanks for your help and patience in this regard. I did not get any networking in college. Though, back then we did not even have dial-up. Anyway, thanks

David

[brad77]

It sounds as if you've almost got it. If your ISY device has a DHCP reservation (see Rand's post) or a static internal IP address, you don't need to worry about your ISY's address on your home network changing.

 

With that problem solved, you still need to address the issue of external access. To solve this, you will probably need to do two things:

 

1. Set up port forwarding on your router

2. Set up a DynDNS account (with updates)

 

Forgive me if I'm going over ground that you've already covered, but perhaps a different perspective will help.

 

In a typical home setup, you have one external IP address. This means that as far as the internet is concerned, you have only one address that can be used to access your home's network. You can have dozens of IP enabled devices in your home, each with a different internal address, but none of those can be seen by the 'net.

 

Any connections coming from the internet must go through that single external IP address, which points to your cable/DSL modem, which then gets passed to your router. Your router then decides what to do with the request. Most of the time, it ignores it, which protects you from unsolicited requests/access attempts from the internet.

 

Since your ISY is on your internal network, you need to set up port forwarding so that your router knows to send requests meant for a specific port (in this case 443) to your ISY. In order to "see" the ISY from the internet, you must forward the port to your ISY if it is on your internal network (that is, not directly connected to your modem, which it is not in your case).

 

With that done, you can access your ISY from the internet using the external IP address assigned to you from your ISP.

 

However, if your ISP changes your external IP address from time to time, or if you simply want an easier to remember name instead of a bunch of numbers, you'll need to set up dynamic DNS.

 

That's where DynDNS comes in. Set up an account with them and you can then use the address (host name) they provide to you to access your ISY.

 

Your last step after setting up your DynDNS account is to set up your router (or an application on your PC) to update DynDNS with your IP address whenever it changes. That way, you don't need to worry about keeping up with the external IP address your ISP is giving you. All you need to remember is the DynDNS host name that you set up.

 

Setting up updates on your router is different for each router brand/model. It may not even be supported on your router. If that's the case, you'll want to opt for a software updater, which can be found here.

[Dinboise]

OK...so I set up a DynDNS account and gave it name I could remember... I did not find a button or option to click to get "with update" option. When it asked for the "IP Address" I gave it the same one it said I had (it started with 71.209.*.*) This was not the LAN IP address. So far so good?

 

I also found in the advanced settings a tab in my modem/router called "applications" that allowed me to make a "rule" including naming a individual device (it listed all the availible devices I had on the LAN and I chose "ISY". Then it asked for an application title and I selected from the long list the option: "DNS server". The list contained everything from slingbox to direct X. It did not have any more questions for me, and I am guessing this will update DNS with IP address? But I do not know this. Qwest does not support this. Does this sound about right?

 

Now onto port forwarding. I will enter 443 as the starting port and 443 as the ending port. The protocol is TCP. LAN IP address will be the 192.168** number, right? But then, below this is the optional section that asks that I set a remote port with starting and ending port as well as the IP address. But it says optional so I figured I would ignore it.

 

How'd I do? Proof is in the pudding so I guess I am off to the Moxie to log in... But now what do with my mobiLinc? I do not see a place to enter the web site DynDNS to get the IP address... I think I get it. I log into the DynDNS on Safari to get the latest IP address then enter that number in the "Settings tab" under "SSL-https:// ..." for the Mobilinc. ??

 

Boy that was exausting. I thank you Brad, Rand, and Michel for taking the time to try and explain it to the newbe.

 

David

[Dinboise]

I was able to log into the "Remote ISY" from the Moxie! I used the 71.209.** HTTPS address.

 

If you use the DynDNS service, do you log in only when the MobiLinc fails to log into the ISY?

 

Thanks

David

[brad77]

OK...so I set up a DynDNS account and gave it name I could remember... I did not find a button or option to click to get "with update" option. When it asked for the "IP Address" I gave it the same one it said I had (it started with 71.209.*.*) This was not the LAN IP address. So far so good?

Yes. When I say "with updates," I am not referring to a box you check when setting up the account. I'm referring to an application that updates DynDNS periodically with your external IP address information.

 

I also found in the advanced settings a tab in my modem/router called "applications" that allowed me to make a "rule" including naming a individual device (it listed all the availible devices I had on the LAN and I chose "ISY". Then it asked for an application title and I selected from the long list the option: "DNS server". The list contained everything from slingbox to direct X. It did not have any more questions for me, and I am guessing this will update DNS with IP address? But I do not know this. Qwest does not support this. Does this sound about right?

No. I'm really not sure what you're talking about here. Perhaps it's related to quality of service (QoS) or something like that. You shouldn't have to do anything here.

 

Now onto port forwarding. I will enter 443 as the starting port and 443 as the ending port. The protocol is TCP. LAN IP address will be the 192.168** number, right? But then, below this is the optional section that asks that I set a remote port with starting and ending port as well as the IP address. But it says optional so I figured I would ignore it.

You're OK here. The remote port option allows to to translate an external port to an internal port. This is useful if your ISP is blocking a certain port. You shouldn't need to worry about that at this point.

 

How'd I do? Proof is in the pudding so I guess I am off to the Moxie to log in... But now what do with my mobiLinc? I do not see a place to enter the web site DynDNS to get the IP address... I think I get it. I log into the DynDNS on Safari to get the latest IP address then enter that number in the "Settings tab" under "SSL-https:// ..." for the Mobilinc. ??

You do not need to log into DynDNS to get this information every time you need it. When you set up the account, you entered in a host name. That is the name that you should use to access your ISY. It should look something like this:

 

https://yourhostname.dyndns.org

 

Make sense? In this case, you'll replace "yourhostname" with the host name you set up with your account.

 

One of the points of setting up DynDNS is that you no longer need to use the IP address. If the DynDNS account is up to date, you only need to use the friendly, easy to remember host name you set up. Continuing to use the numberic IP address defeats the purpose of this as it will break as soon as your ISP changes it.

 

You still must set up an updater. It doesn't look like your router supports this, so you should install an application to keep DynDNS' records up to date with your external IP address. Refer to the link regarding the DynDNS updater application in my previous post (hint: it's the last word in the post).

[Dinboise]

I am in the process of creating an internal static IP address as instructed by the DynDNS folks who say this is needed or one time the Router may assisign a different IP number at boot up. I remember this issue before, but now it is not confusing me as I understand they are talking about the internal IP not the external IP address.

 

I will change the settings in the MobiLinc to reflect the host name of the dynDNS.

 

I will also look into the Updater. I thought the application tab in the advanced settings of the router would do that, but it certainly didn't have any text that explained what it would do.

 

Thanks again

David

[brad77]

I am in the process of creating an internal static IP address as instructed by the DynDNS folks who say this is needed or one time the Router may assisign a different IP number at boot up.

Yes, this is exactly what Rand was referring to in his recent post.

 

I thought the application tab in the advanced settings of the router would do that, but it certainly didn't have any text that explained what it would do.

Unless you are plugging your DynDNS username and password into this feature on your router, I'm fairly certain that this isn't where you do this.

 

Either way, I'm glad to hear that you have figured things out (mostly).

[Dinboise]

OK experiment over.

 

I went to the Moxie for a spin... I can log into the remote ISY using the external IP address provided by the front page of the portforward.com folks (entered in the HTTPS line under settings in the MobiLinc) . Yipee. Now the confusing part. I can not access the ISY remotely, from the same Moxie, when I enter my "hostname.ath.cx.dyndns.org" or simply "hostname.dyndns.org" in the HTTPS line. I thought I did everything: I port forwarded, and started an account with dynDNS folks, and created a static IP address through the internet protocol versionn 4(TCP/IPv4) properties in the control panel on the computer per instruction from the dynDNS guys. Anything else?

 

I can surf the net from the desktop and lap top, so I did not screw up my wifi or network in entering the DNS/IP stuff on my computer. I can reach the ISY remotely using the external IP address so I haven't screwed up the ISY or Mobilinc. But I think the dynDNS is not talking to the router.

 

When I asked my router to forward to 443, do I need to let the dynDNS know?

When I picked my IP address in the control panel for the local static IP address, do I need to enter this anywhere else? And then there is this tidbit... in the help tab of the ISY control panel the URL is 192.168.0.3... this is not the IP address I asked for in the creation of the static IP address in the: network settings|adapter setting|properties|internet protocol versionn 4(TCP/IPv4) properties.

 

Thank you for your words of wisdom.

 

David