Truth Manufacturing Window Openers

[KConover]

I just had Renewal by Andersen replace all of the windows in my house – 72 of them (it was the home and architect's studio for one of Frank Lloyd Wright's students named Lorene Lamar Shannon). Seven of them are openable awning windows nine and a half feet high at the base, or higher. I used to be able to (with a lot of difficulty) use a long S-shaped pole with a big hex socket to open them with hex nubbins that replaced the hand cranks. That won't work with these new windows. Truth manufacturing makes the openers used by Andersen for all of their awning windows. They also offer aftermarket (or for new buildings) electric openers for windows and skylights. I am seeing about getting those installed by an electrician. (I do basic electric work on the house but I need professional help for running wires and cables, there's quick a knack to it.) Each comes with a double-wide electrical box that has the buttons for opening and closing each individual window. I also spoke with the tech support person for Truth Mfg, who was very helpful. There are a couple of lines coming out of each controller that are simple open/close contacts designed for such automation. I was thinking about putting, in each one of those double-wide electrical boxes, an Insteon Micro Open/Close Module. That way I can open and close all of them at once with a single Insteon wall switch.

Anyone tried this? Or anything similar?

Thanks for any thoughts.

[gzahar]

I just had Renewal by Andersen replace all of the windows in my house – 72 of them (it was the home and architect's studio for one of Frank Lloyd Wright's students named Lorene Lamar Shannon). Seven of them are openable awning windows nine and a half feet high at the base, or higher. I used to be able to (with a lot of difficulty) use a long S-shaped pole with a big hex socket to open them with hex nubbins that replaced the hand cranks. That won't work with these new windows. Truth manufacturing makes the openers used by Andersen for all of their awning windows. They also offer aftermarket (or for new buildings) electric openers for windows and skylights. I am seeing about getting those installed by an electrician. (I do basic electric work on the house but I need professional help for running wires and cables, there's quick a knack to it.) Each comes with a double-wide electrical box that has the buttons for opening and closing each individual window. I also spoke with the tech support person for Truth Mfg, who was very helpful. There are a couple of lines coming out of each controller that are simple open/close contacts designed for such automation. I was thinking about putting, in each one of those double-wide electrical boxes, an Insteon Micro Open/Close Module. That way I can open and close all of them at once with a single Insteon wall switch.
Anyone tried this? Or anything similar?
Thanks for any thoughts.

You might try reposting in a different section of forum. Try Coffee Shop or IoX support / common ISY topics / how are you using your ISY.

[Ross]

@Geddy Geddy, please move this to the appropriate forum.  

@KConover I do something similar using an I/O Linc 2450 with a pet door.  This works if the wires are triggered by a low voltage input (like a garage opener).  I also have very high windows in the house that I can only open/close with the literal 10-foot pole.  I hope you make progress so I can learn from it.

Ross

[Javi]

I think it would be best if you had a wiring diagram. The micro modules work by rewiring the original switch to control the micro module instead of the circuit, then micro module controls the circuit.  So, to use the additional wires you mentioned will need to know how these wires control the main circuit or show status, i.e. momentary, latching, normally closed/open, ect.  It is also possible that both wires are separated circuits to open and close the window.

[mwester]

On 2/13/2023 at 12:21 PM, KConover said:

...There are a couple of lines coming out of each controller that are simple open/close contacts designed for such automation...

The highlighted words imply that your controller requires something that has a simple relay, aka "dry contacts" rather than something that switches 120VAC line voltage.

Assumptions can be expensive and deadly with line voltage -- you need to obtain the real specs for the controller, so we can see what, exactly, the referenced lines from the controller require.

If they need 120VAC provided to them (very unlikely) then the micro on/off is an option.  If they are dry-contact lines, with 24VAC (typical thermostat/doorbell types of signals), then the Insteon IOLinc is the only thing offered by Insteon.  If they are dry-contact but provide 120VAC (line voltage), then you'll need full UL-rated dry-contact switching, and that might require z-wave or similar devices.

So - specs required.

[RPerrault]

oops - the time to think about that is before buying

i doubt you will find any that use insteon (best by broan tried to but that failed) 

i understand your need for a workaround - consider z-wave devices - more options

i use some z-wave blinds - that gets you into the isy where you can do as you please

i dont think we have a lutron node - at least no yet 

i am also looking at replacement windows - probably marvin - but they only have interfaces to security systems (elk not listed of course) - wired (contact switch) and wireless (who knows what that is) that show if the window is locked

whatever i go with, i will have power and cat 5 to the top of the window for hardwired window treatment options

 

[IndyMike]

Hello KConover,

In addition to the cautions presented above.  Please consider whether your application is appropriate for this type of automation. 

You have a historic home.  Consider what would happen when automation/devices fail and open windows at the worst possible time (monsoon/winter). 

Not sure if you have experienced an Insteon "all on" event.  There are numerous posts on the forum.  They are real, but have been mitigated to a certain extent through programming practices and newer Insteon devices.  One of these events could easily open your windows at an inopportune time.  Worse, the ISY will not know the windows are open until they are queried. 

I could go on ad nauseam about the reliability of IOLinc's, PLM's, as well as device states after power failures.  In the end, window open/close functions are not something that I would personally trust to automation.  Blinds yes/ windows no.

Best of luck