Migration from ISY to EISY - don't get updates from devices

[Andy P]

Have spent the whole day trying to figure out this problem and hoping someone can help!

I have successfully migrated from an ISY994 to the EISY using a backup. I changed PLMs from a serial to USB and did a restore to the PLM. So after a couple redo's, I got everything working EXCEPT I am not getting any notifications back into the EISY. What I mean is that I can turn the switch on from the admin console, turn it off from the admin console, etc. But if I turn the switch on physically, the admin console does not reflect the change unless I go into the device in the admin console and do a QUERY in which case, it gets the right dimming level. Also, the query all status when rebooting gets the correct current status of all devices.

That seems to indicate everything is talking and the links are all there - which I also see in the link tables. I tried two different serial PLMs and got the same result. I have nothing else plugged into the outlet and since I get responses when I do a query, I don't think there is a problem there.

So what am I missing that the ADMIN console doesn't see any changes and also none of the programs that I have linked to the devices will trigger. Can't find anything meaningful in the error log either.

Thanks, Andy

[Geddy]

@Andy P welcome to the forums!

Please check the UI and Firmware match when you are logged into Admin Console.

Menu “Help” -> About

What firmware are you running on the eisy? (Current is 5.5.9)

What OS are you using on the computer you are accessing the Admin Console? (Win, Mac, other?) You may need to clear the Java Cache (selecting all three boxes in the process) and downloading a fresh IoX Finder (start.jnlp - NOTE: Don’t use old downloaded copies).

Have you preformed a full power cycle during any of your migration steps or subsequent trouble shooting steps? Always make sure the PLM is powered on a few moments before the eisy. If you have not fully power cycled the eisy please try that now also, if above steps don’t help. 

[Andy P]

Hi - yes, I am on 5.5.9 - upgraded it before the migration

I am using Win - and I have cleared the cache, but it doesn't really matter because the trigger doesn't happen regardless of whether the admin console is alive, or using the portal or no UI. The EISY is simply not getting any triggers from remotes, motion detectors or manual actuation of any switch, dimmer or scene controller even though it works completely in the other direction or when doing a query.

All the automation of lights turning on and off are working fine.

I have done a full power cycle, i have tried plugging into different outlets in the house. I always wait after plugging in the plm before the EISY. And the very strange thing is that the EISY can read status from devices, but does not see any unsolicited inputs. I also tried different USB cables.

Any other ideas?

Thanks, Andy

[Geddy]

@Andy P with Admin Console open start Event Viewer and set it to level 3.  Operate a light both via admin console and physically (maybe different lights). Is there any activity? Looking for some ACK results. More than likely nothing. 
 

It might be best to open a support ticket and get help directly. Since you can control devices and the status does update on query there’s something not getting from the PLM to ISY service somehow. 
 

https://www.universal-devices.com/my-tickets/

Is your PLM plugged directly into the wall?
What cables are being used from PLM to eisy?

You said you tried different PLMs though, did you restore PLM after the migration and restored backup? I don’t usually randomly change PLM so don’t know the process and don’t usually suggest the “restore PLM” process, but know others do it randomly. Perhaps something additional went goofy in those steps. 

[Andy P]

Hi, there are no events coming into the Event Viewer when I activate switches with it set to level 3. There is plenty of activity there when I do changes or query a device and it all looks ok.

Here is a device on from the console followed by a query from the console.

Sun 03/12/2023 10:58:53 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 53 EA 42 0F 11 80
Sun 03/12/2023 10:58:53 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 53.EA.42 0F 11 80 06          LTONRR (80)
Sun 03/12/2023 10:58:53 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 53.EA.42 1E.4D.5B 2B 11 80    LTONRR (80)
Sun 03/12/2023 10:58:53 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 53.EA.42-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Sun 03/12/2023 10:58:57 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 53 EA 42 0F 19 00
Sun 03/12/2023 10:58:57 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 53.EA.42 0F 19 00 06          LTSREQ (LIGHT)
Sun 03/12/2023 10:58:57 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 53.EA.42 1E.4D.5B 2B 0F 80    PING   (80)
Sun 03/12/2023 10:58:57 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 53.EA.42-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
 

There are no entries when I physically move the switch.

I am going to open a ticket - thanks!

[Geddy]

2 minutes ago, Andy P said:

I am going to open a ticket - thanks!

Sorry that didn’t help. Post back what you get from support once resolved so we know what happened and what might help others if they experience a similar issue. 

[kclenden]

6 hours ago, Andy P said:

So what am I missing that the ADMIN console doesn't see any changes and also none of the programs that I have linked to the devices will trigger. Can't find anything meaningful in the error log either.

The way Insteon works is typically via links between devices.  The ramification of this is that devices only pay attention to communication for which they have an existing link (with some exceptions).

Devices only send status out to devices for which they have a controller link, and they only listen for messages from devices for which they have a responder link.  So in the case of a switch, it will only send its status to the PLM if it has a controller link for the PLM.  And the PLM will only listen for a status update if it has a responder link for the device.

Given your issues, it sounds like one, or both of those links are missing.  Some other people have described similar problems after migration, and I have asked if they would post their device links table so we could look for missing links, but so far none have.  Perhaps you could by right-clicking on one of your devices and choosing "Diagnostics-Show Device Links Table".  After the window populates, click the "Compare" button.  Post the results here.  It will help us help others in the future, and it will be useful information for UDI.

Edited March 13, 2023 by kclenden

[Andy P]

Thanks all, I have opened a ticket. I did examine the links table in the PLM as well as in the individual devices and also did a compare operation. All the links are there and the compare came back equal. It is quite a mystery! The good news is that the scheduled automation for turning lights on and off is working. The bad news is that none of the programs that are triggered by devices work.

Will post back soon!

Edited March 13, 2023 by Andy P
clarification

[kclenden]

1 hour ago, Andy P said:

I did examine the links table in the PLM as well as in the individual devices and also did a compare operation. All the links are there and the compare came back equal.

Could you humor us with a screenshot?  It seems hard to believe that all the links are there if none of the device activity is showing up in the Event Viewer Level 3 log.  Either the device isn't sending the status because a controller link is missing, or the PLM isn't paying attention to the status because a responder link is missing.  Just because the "Compare" comes back equal doesn't mean all the links are there.  It just means all the links that the eisy thinks should be there, are there, but it seems like something in the migration is confusing the eisy as to which links should be there.

[lilyoyo1]

Try a restore plm and once done restore devices

[Andy P]

Yes, i have done restore PLM several times and I have done restore devices several times. I can hear the PLM beep and then each device beep as it goes through the process.

Here is a snip of the PLM (1e.4d.5b 2413U) table and then the first device in that table 50.88.d4 which is a dimmer in the main hallway.

Waiting for response to the ticket, thanks for your ideas.

[Andy P]

ok, based on ideas above, I deleted one of the devices and added it back and that device does trigger the EISY correctly. It seems that all of the A2 links were written to the devices during the migration but none of the E2 links were to any device. And apparently the EISY doesn't expect them to be there so doing restore to the device or the plm doesn't put them back. I guess the next step is to trying doing a restore from backup again and see what happens.

[Andy P]

OK, started the whole migration over again using the same backup as before and this time it worked.

1. On the EISY admin console, did File - Restore ISY

2. After the reboot of the EISY, checked the links tables and they still show the old PLM (of course)

3. Did a File - Restore Modem (PLM)

That is pretty much the same thing I did the first time. But this time, it worked and now there are many more links in the PLM and the EISY is being notified on all device changes. I guess the technical explanation is that all the controller links were in place after the migration but none of the responder links - or the other way around - not an expert on that, obviously!

Don't have a clue why the first migration failed, but happy that it worked the second time. I guess my only advice out of this is don't spend hours trying to troubleshoot a migration which is partially working and just start over again.

Thanks to everyone for your support and suggestions!

Andy

Edited March 13, 2023 by Andy P

[Andy P]

Just to follow up - everything is working and the ticket is closed. There is no factual explanation for what happened but I have offered this theory based on some post analysis of the files I saved

After the first migration attempt, the PLM had 102 total links, with exactly one link for each of 102 devices - i had no idea if this was right or not - some of you probably would have known this is wrong.

After the second migration, the PLM had 469 links, with 2 to 10 links for each device (lots of scene controllers)

My theory is that there was a communication error with the PLM during the first migration and the restore process put the first link into the link table and then attempted to write it to the PLM but failed and then went on to the next device. Which means the table had an entry but the PLM did not. Then, when I tried to do a restore PLM to fix errors I was seeing, and after rebooting everything, there was no more communication error and it wrote each of those single links to the PLM  giving enough functionality that I thought the migration had worked, but of course it did not. The compare links process didn't indicate any error because the links in the PLM matched the table that was built during restore which was missing many lines.

If there is any possibility that something remotely similar to this happened, I recommend the following process if you are changing PLMs:

1. On the original ISY, before migration, examine the PLM links and make a note of how many there are and then run a backup ISY.

2. On the new EISY, after booting it up and before migrating, go to the Tools - Diagnostics - PLM Info/Status option and make sure it shows your PLM connected

2. Do File - Restore ISY with the event viewer visible and logging level 3 enabled and watch the results

3. After the restore, again examine the PLM links and see if it matches pre-migration.

Thanks again to all,

Andy

[kclenden]

18 hours ago, Andy P said:

Here is a snip of the PLM (1e.4d.5b 2413U) table and then the first device in that table 50.88.d4 which is a dimmer in the main hallway.

Thanks for providing the Links Tables.  The Device Links Table shows that the device is a responder to the PLM (first link), but it does not show that the device is a controller of the PLM.  This means that the device listens for messages from the PLM, but it does not send messages to the PLM when its status changes.  That matches your symptoms exactly.

18 hours ago, Andy P said:

It seems that all of the A2 links were written to the devices during the migration but none of the E2 links were to any device.

Since the E2 links tell the devices that they are controllers of the PLM, their absence means that none of the devices send status updates to the PLM.

 

17 hours ago, Andy P said:

I guess the technical explanation is that all the controller links were in place after the migration but none of the responder links - or the other way around - not an expert on that, obviously!

Other way around.  None of the controller links means none of the devices think they control the PLM, so none of them send out status updates to the PLM.  What strange is that the Device Links Table you posted shows one E2 (controller) record where the Main Hallway (50 88 D4) controls device (50 96 2A).  So some E2 records were written, just none where the device controls the PLM.

 

11 hours ago, Andy P said:

My theory is that there was a communication error with the PLM during the first migration and the restore process put the first link into the link table and then attempted to write it to the PLM but failed and then went on to the next device.

The problem with that theory is that the eisy communicates with the PLM via USB or Serial, both of which are very reliable communication methods.  That would seem to leave communication with the devices as the cause, but since every single device was missing its PLM controller link, it seems unlikely that would be the cause.

 

11 hours ago, Andy P said:

I recommend the following process if you are changing PLMs:

Thanks for taking the time to document your experience and make a recommendation.  It will be very helpful to other users.