Insteon 2441TH Thermostat - Heat Pumps

[Ross]

@Mirgo and others:

 

I am having a heat pump installed and he's trying to figure out how to wire the Insteon 2441TH to a heat pump.

I found Mirgo's diagram (in a closed topic - I wish they wouldn't do that) where you jump W1 to G.  I have no idea what that means.  Would someone please tell me what that is accomplishing so I can let him know?

Have you had any issues with this solution?  Should I have any concerns?

Please see the attached diagram.

Thanks very much,

Ross

Edited April 13, 2023 by Ross

[stevehoyt]

if you google it you can get the manual.

 

Here is the link. 

http://cache.insteon.com/documentation/2732-xx2-en.pdf

 

here is wiring info

CAUTIONS AND WARNINGS

Read and understand these instructions before installing and retain them for future reference.

IMPORTANT: HOW DO I KNOW THIS WILL WORK WITH MY SYSTEM?

1. 1)  Your existing HVAC can operate 2 stages of Heat and Cool.

2. 2)  Your existing thermostat operates on 24V.

3. 3)  Your system is not a 120/240V electric radiant heater.

4. 4)  Your existing thermostat is not millivolt controlled.

5. 5)  Your existing thermostat has 5 or more wires connected.

   Insteon Thermostat is designed to operate on a minimum 5-wire, 24V HVAC unit. If you have only 4 wires you can purchase the “Add-A-Wire” adapter item #304AAW from www.smarthome.com.

   If you have a conventional heating and cooling system, use Insteon Wired Thermostat 2441TH
   If you have a heat pump heating and cooling system, use Insteon Wired Thermostat for Heat Pumps 2732-242

Note: Installation should be performed only by a qualified HVAC Technician or a homeowner who is familiar and comfortable with electrical circuitry. If you have any questions regarding installation, consult an HVAC Technician or call the Insteon Support Line at 800-762-7845.

Edited April 13, 2023 by stevehoyt

[Ross]

@stevehoyt Thanks Steve.

It clearly says in the manual that it should not be used for heat pumps.  It says to use 2732-242 which is not available anymore. 

But, several years ago, @Mirgo posted the diagram above (in a closed topic) that gets it to work with heat pumps.

My installer tried it this afternoon and it works (to his surprise).  

I'm just concerned that there is a downside.

Thanks,

Ross

 

[Mirgo]

I believe i answer you Ross, but don't see my reply. There is no down side, I have it for 4 years now with no problems, the jumper engages hvac circulating fan when heater is on. Without jumper it will work only with AC turned on. I can explain in more detail why and how if someone really need it. 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Mirgo

[apostolakisl]

23 hours ago, Mirgo said:

I believe i answer you Ross, but don't see my reply. There is no down side, I have it for 4 years now with no problems, the jumper engages hvac circulating fan when heater is on. Without jumper it will work only with AC turned on. I can explain in more detail why and how if someone really need it. 

Is this setup for an "o" or "b" reversing valve?  And if it is for one, is there a way to make it work for the other?

[tmorse305]

On 4/16/2023 at 8:27 PM, Mirgo said:

There is no down side

@Mirgo

Maybe the color coding is different, but on my HP system the yellow wire is the compressor.  With the jumper that was added it seems that if the Fan is switched from Auto to On on the thermostat, the compressor would run (heating) regardless of the temperature setting.  That seems like a downside.

Edited April 18, 2023 by tmorse305

[Ross]

@tmorse305 You are correct.  The downside is that there is no Fan Only available.  If the thermostat is set to Cool, you get cool air.  If you set it to Heat or Fan Only, you get Heat.

I suppose I could remove the jumper in summer if I wanted to have Fan Only (my supply duct is downstairs where it is cool).  I would need to make sure that my unit doesn't come on when (accidentally) selecting Heat (and there's no fan).  That would be a big downside...

I'll probably end up getting a Venstar Heat Pump thermostat as there is a node server written for 3 Venstar models.  However, I had some old Insteon 2441TH's in a box and wanted to see if I could use them.  Other than not having Fan Only at my disposal, @Mirgo's solution works well.

Ross

 

[Ross]

On 4/16/2023 at 5:27 PM, Mirgo said:

I believe i answer you Ross, but don't see my reply. There is no down side, I have it for 4 years now with no problems, the jumper engages hvac circulating fan when heater is on. Without jumper it will work only with AC turned on. I can explain in more detail why and how if someone really need it. 

@Mirgo If you don't mind, please explain.  I think I've got it, but I'm not thinking it all through.  Also, what if I remove the jumper in the summer?  I can use Fan Only, I assume.  However, what happens if I accidentally select Heat?  Will it come on with no fan (or will the unit not allow that)?  I have a new unit and I assume it has some safety protocols.

Thank you,

Ross

[tmorse305]

6 hours ago, apostolakisl said:

Is this setup for an "o" or "b" reversing valve?  And if it is for one, is there a way to make it work for the other?

It is set up as "o".  To make it "b":

1. Remove jumper

2. Swap Orange and Yellow wires

3. Jumper "G" to "Y1"

Note: Never set the Fan to "On" or the compressor will run as long as the fan is on regardless of the set point.

[tmorse305]

3 hours ago, Ross said:

I suppose I could remove the jumper in summer if I wanted to have Fan Only (my supply duct is downstairs where it is cool).  I would need to make sure that my unit doesn't come on when (accidentally) selecting Heat (and there's no fan).  That would be a big downside...

If you pull the jumper you will lose the AC.  The jumper is used to turn the compressor on (yellow wire)when the thermostat calls for cool via Y1.  The reversing valve will be energized by the orange wire but the compressor won't run.  If you turn on the heat without the jumper the heat will operate normally.  I know this is the opposite of what Mirgo said above but I think he has it backwards based on the wiring diagram you show above.

 

If you want to restore the Fan On functionality you could do this:

1. Remove Jumper (W1-G)

2. Add a switch between W1 and Y1

Switch Open = Heat Only

Switch Closed = Cooling only

If you try to cool with the switch open just the Fan will run, no cooling

If you try to heat with the switch closed the cooling will run forever as the heat setpoint will never be satisfied.

Edited April 18, 2023 by tmorse305