Nested Folders Allowed to Run

[mango]

Hi folks,

I'm cleaning up some program structure and just want to make sure that nested folders inside a root folder that is set to conditionally allow to run will allow programs to run? Is there a limit for folders inside folders? I anticipate no more than 3 nested folders.

I did a quick test and it appears to work, but want to make sure this is permitted by design, and works 100% before I change things around.

[mango]

No need to answer I found this in the Wiki:

Program folders can have conditions. These conditions must be met before any programs within the folder will run.

• Folders can be nested and thus Folder Conditions can be cascaded.

I can assume from this 3 nested folders down will work properly.

[MrBill]

Correct.  Unlike disabled programs tho, a false folder condition stops ALL execution, including when a program is run by another program (or manually).   Another note, when a folder becomes false any program below it in the hierarchy will stop instantly, it will not finish (for short programs with no "wait" this isn't an issue).

[apostolakisl]

As per Mr. Bill.  I would like to double stress the part about programs in the folder when a folder is false. It is as if those programs don't exist.  Which of course is very different than a disabled program which can still be called by other programs.  The exception to this is that I do believe you can still use the status of a program in a false folder in another program.  However, I think this would be bad programming technique since the status of a program that can't run will not reflect the most conditions.  

[mango]

Thanks both.

The ISY involved is a cottage rental, so I have conditions (mostly security, some utility control (HWT, Well pump)  for Guest, Owner, Home and Away. The conditions folder feature works well for me, but I have things a little untidy as folders were added over time. I think I can make a cleaner structure which will have the benefit of reducing a bit of load (steps and triggers) on the ISY.

 

EDit: typo

Edited June 15, 2023 by mango

[DennisC]

Just be aware that folder conditions can be unreliable at certain times.

For a rental location, they might not be the best choice. I have stopped using them all together.

[MrBill]

As we've all spelled out they are a different beast, and they can cause unpredictability.  I've never used them in nested form, which I assume works correctly.  The problem I have is turning off programs I didn't mean to turn off, or didn't get conditions to where they should be before the folder cut off execution.  It's a different level of planning because they work differently that everything else you're used to.

That said, I do have a few simple instance's were folder conditions work reliably for example I have different kitchen lighting programs for day and night. 

One folder condition is If $sDark is 0, the other is if $sDark in not 0.  In that case one folder or the other will always be true, even if $sDark somehow has a weird value like 42 (it happaned once).  Had I used '$sDark is 0' or '$sDark is 1' a weird value like 42 would mean neither worked.

AND that said, in OP's example folders for Guest, Owner, Home and Away I can see problems, because when switching between you have to take every condition into account.  For example if A guest doesn't have any ability to control the widgit, then one must make sure the widgit is the correct mode before switching to guest mode, because if you're disabling widgit control it might stay on (or off) for the entire guest mode duration.

[mango]

Well, Mr Bill, we use pretty much the same nomenclature  😬 This basic one has been working well for me for a couple of years now. I'm concerned with what @DennisC has said. Perhaps I should just use a structure of IF programs(?)

 

 

[MrBill]

15 minutes ago, mango said:

Well, Mr Bill, we use pretty much the same nomenclature  😬 This basic one has been working well for me for a couple of years now. I'm concerned with what @DennisC has said. Perhaps I should just use a structure of IF programs(?)

 

 

But are your if statements written with “is” and “is not”, because if your not careful you can end up with neither home or away being true.

[mango]

Hi @MrBill

This is where I appear to think I have things already decently setup. Most of the programming is generic for all users. It's only some functions where I want a bit of granular control between uses.

The modes are set when the doors are unlocked, and guests are unable to set the modes.

[DennisC]

12 hours ago, mango said:

Hi @MrBill

This is where I appear to think I have things already decently setup. Most of the programming is generic for all users. It's only some functions where I want a bit of granular control between uses.

The modes are set when the doors are unlocked, and guests are unable to set the modes.

What happens if the door unlocking/locking status fails to update correctly?

[mango]

1 hour ago, DennisC said:

What happens if the door unlocking/locking status fails to update correctly?

Never, had a problem in years of using Schlage zwave locks. That function has been rock solid, Unlock, Jam, etc. Default mode upon first arrival is Owner/Away. Everything would work for the guests when they arrive in that mode anyway, they really wouldn't notice a difference. I am notified of human activity upon their arrival through Pushover on my phone and I can set the modes remotely should things not work, but as I say, it's never had to come to that. It's only basic stuff. For instance the guests stay is usually 5-10 nights, I am aware of check in and check out day, and keep an eye on things. Upon first change of mode from Owner/Away to Guest/Home, if around dusk all the main lights turn on to welcome you. I have also have modes for housekeeper and handyman. Guest/Away mode and Owner/Away mode are both automated security lighting at night and a few other things. 95% of the building scenes and functions are shared through all modes

Edited June 17, 2023 by mango

[DennisC]

Glad you have everything covered.

As @MrBillstated above, with the unpredictable nature of folder conditions, you need to be prepared for unforeseen circumstances.

I also use Schlage ZWave locks and have since ZWave was added to ISY. I have seen an occasional status failure. but not since updating to ZMatter dongle.

[mango]

Yeah I appreciate everyones comments I may rethink this.