ISY994i > EISY, "Restore Modem"

[KConover]

"ISY994i is dead, long live EISY!"

OK, so one of my 6-button Insteon wall switches died.

I put in a new one, but with my old ISY994i I was unable to get it programmed to work. OK, maybe it's a bad switch, but maybe it's that the ISY994i can't recognize it. Time to get a new EISY. Got it, got an Insteon 2413u USB PLM (powerline modem) hooked up to it via USB. Got the EISY attached to my network via both WiFi and Ethernet to try to make it happy. Here is what I've done so far to try to get the EISY set up:

EISY Installation

==============

Plug in EISY to power and to Ethernet (or WiFi or both) for home network. No problems.

Run (from desktop) "C:\PD\INSTALLD\Utilities\Hardware Utilities\ISY\start.jnlp" Pick EISY rather than ISY994i. No problems.

File > Restore ISY > pick latest ISY994i backup. No problems.

Attach 2413U Insteon powerline modem (PLM) to AC power and via USB cable to EISY. No problems that I can detect.

File > Restore Modem. Problems.

I have a 3-floor house but it's no mansion, and only lights being controlled and only via Insteon.

Every couple of minutes, a popup dialog box that says "System Busy. Please do NOT power off/unplug the system or make adjustments to linked/attached devices" with a progress bar that encouragingly shows progress from 0 to 100% over a minute or two. But then another similar box pops up. And another. And another. "Several" in this case should mean enough hours to fill 2-3 days, at least.

With, for the first couple of hours, random buzzing sounds of some Insteon devices from time to time.

Do I just wait for it to finish or is it in an endless loop?

Any advice appreciated.

 

[Techman]

It's possible that the eisy is updating its packages, which can sometimes take a while. 

At this point I would let it sit, with hands off, and update for an hour.

What firmware version is the eisy on?

[KConover]

Techman, thanks for your reply.

I've had my hands off now into the third day, considerably longer than an hour. I'm on IoX 5.6.3.

I wonder if I neglected to link the PLM and somehow that's got it stuck in an endless loop?

[Techman]

5.6.3 is the current firmware version. 

Did you exactly follow the following migration instructions:

Eisy:User Guide - Universal Devices, Inc. Wiki (universal-devices.com)

 

 

[KConover]

Yes, I did. Most of it does not apply to me as I'm not using Polyglot or Node Servers. I tried rebooting and restarting the Console (LAN) and this time, those popups in the Console (LAN) show a lower line, different each time, that they're actually writing data to devices. A step forwards, I guess.

[KConover]

I have found migration from the ISY994i to the EISY to be time-consuming and a frustrating, massive time-suck.

The EISY is connected to the local area network and the internet via a Cat8 Ethernet cable. The EISY is connected to the PLM with a standard USB A to B cable.

However, many of the devices that worked fine with the ISY994i cannot be be communicated with from the EISY.

Perhaps this is related to the fact that the (brand-new) Insteon USB PLM 2413U shows this in the Console (LAN): "HouseLinc USB Modem E 5C 77 1 [yes, spaced like that] - Unsupported Device 3.19." Yes, I've "'Updated Packages" and I'm running IoX 5.6.3 both for the firmware and the UI both.

I admit that at this point I'm stuck.

Anyone with any advice? Thank you in advance.

[Techman]

It appears that your USB modem was previously linked to another controller. Did you buy it directly from Insteon.?

Try doing a factory reset on the PLM, then a restore Modem.

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Techman

[KConover]

Thanks, Techman. I did as you said. Still see the same error in Console (LAN).

I do have a 2413S serial modem, too. I snapped it up when Insteon went out of business.

But if I use the (single) RJ-45 port not to connect the EISY to the LAN/internet, but to connect to the modem, how can I be sure that the modem is connected to the house's WiFi? I put the name and password in at the beginning but now that I've done a factory reset, it's not going to be there anymore and I don't see an option to specify it in the Console (LAN) or the ISY Portal. And I'm not sure if a standard Ethernet cable has the right pinout for this use.

[Techman]

The eisy only supports a PLM via one of its USB ports, thus the USB PLM would be the first choice.

You can use a serial PLM (2413s) with the eisy if you use an USB to serial convertor. UD has a convertor kit available on their store site.

If you factory reset the PLM it would have no effect on you name and password.

Where did you purchase your USB PLM? Did you try factory resetting the PLM and then doing a restore Modem?

[KConover]

Got the PLM directly from insteon.com. Yes, I reset it and did a Restore Modem, which didn't help. I just ordered the UD set of adapters to go from EISY to Insteon Serial PLM, I'll see if the serial PLM works better.

Thanks yet again!

[Techman]

I'm using a USB PLM with the eisy and had no problems migrating.

You should contact Insteon support for an explanation. HouseLinc is a discontinued product that was supported by Insteon. It sounds like you got a used PLM that was previously linked to a HouseLinc product. They should replace the PLM.  They're very responsive.

What's the 4-digit date code and version number on your USB PLM?

[KConover]

I used to use HouseLinc years ago when it was a thing, though I got an ISY994i when HouseLinc died. But this is brand-new USB PLM that I'm using. Revision 2.7, 2023. Very strange that EISY thinks it's a HouseLink modem. Maybe the "Restore Modem" got that from some of my devices, ones that I used with HouseLinc many years ago?

[Techman]

Being that you used houselinc it's possible that it is somehow linked to your ISY and got migrated to the eisy.

If you factory reset the PLM does it still show as houselinc prior to doing a restore PLM?

If not then it's possible your ISY backup file may have some issues.

 

 

 

[Brian H]

You may want to look at the 2413U's part number.

There was a 2413U and 2413S PLM with the Subcategory used by HouseLinc that was not the same as the one used by the other versions.  HouseLinc checked for the different Subcategory ID before it would run. This was the purchased HouseLinc and not the later released free version.

You may want to reach out to Insteon Support as a new 2413U should not be reporting it is a special HouseLinc PLM. Though I believe they both work the same just a different ID.

The part number would have an H added to it. Like 2413UH for USB or 2413SH for serial port. Though a factory programming error in theory could have the H subcategory and it had a standard part number.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Brian H
Add information

[KConover]

Well, the PLM did not have a H and was a recent version. I did try the serial PLM, also recent manufacture, with the series of serial adapters that Universal Devices sells. Had the same problem. Couldn't use the EISY to control any of my devices, couldn't see the modem in the EISY's list, and when I tried a Restore Modem it got stuck in an endless loop of "system busy" popups. For several days, I let it keep running.

Does anyone else have any suggestions for getting this going? I am suspecting that the ISY994i backup that I restored to the EISY is at fault, but I don't know how to clear it out other than trying to delete all the devices from IoX but I'm not even sure that would work. And, unfortunately, rebooting the EISY doesn't seem to help.

[Techman]

With the PLM connected, In the admin console, If you click on TOOLS, DIAGNOSTICS, PLM INFO /STATUS what does it show?

[KConover]

Well, part of the problem is that IoX is in an endless loop and won't respond to commands. I was able to "Delete PLM" to get it to stop but then I can't see the PLM in IoX. When I then try Tools > Diagnostics > PLM Info/Status, it just says "/Not Connected." That's even though the PLM is mechanically connected to AC power and by the cables to the EISY. I did a power-off reboot using the power button on the EISY which still can't see the PLM now.

When I use the Java-based applet on my PC to log into Admin Console (LAN) it shows all of my devices except for the PLM.

Sigh.

I then did a "Restore ISY" from a time from back when I was operating the ISY994i instead of the EISY, because I couldn't think of anything else to do.

It then popped up a "System Busy" dialog box and I let it whir for a few minutes. Then, it popped up a dialog box "58.23.96 v9E connected" which is the serial PLM.  Yay!

I can also now turn on and off some lights from IoX. However, some lights, which work fine from the connected Insteon switches on the wall, and from a 6-button mini-remote, won't work from IoX, they give an error "

[Techman]

When you deleted the PLM, which you shouldn't have done, it removed its links from the EISY.   Try doing a restore device on one of your devices. If you're able to then control that device, then you'll need to restore each device.

What was the firmware version of the ISY backup that you restored to the EISY?

You should also clear your java cache, including checking the box "installed application" and then download the IoX Launcher.

 

[johnjces]

I am no expert but just migrated to the eisy from the isy. A couple of thoughts that might help are: (whihc is what I did before I started my migration

1). factory reset your eisy.
2). do a factory reset of your PLM. Hold set button and plug in. Keep holding it until beeping stops.
3). Ensire PLM is plugged into power and the eisy BEFORE powering on the eisy. (The ISY required it. Doubt the new hard ware requires it, but still consider it).
4). Upgrade all modules. Bring it up to current version of firmware. Restart IOX.
5). After the restart of IOX, if using Insteon, check the checkbox for Insteon. if using Zwave, checkbox that too. etc.
6). Restart IOX. again
7). Restore the eisy from ISY backup
8). Restore PLM. This will also reprogarm all your devices (Insteon anyway), to the new PLM. This takes some time. The more devices the longer it takes.
9). Test.

This did the trick for me! And I hope this might help!

John
 

[KConover]

Thanks for the advice, both of you. Techman, I tried everything else to get IoX and the EISY (including power-off rebooting) to get out of the endless loop, and "delete PLM" was the only thing that worked. I let it go for four (4) days before resorting to this. Seems to be working OK after this and restoring an earlier ISY backup. I'm having a problem with a couple of Insteon devices, but was able to replace the 6-button wall switch which was the reason I upgraded from ISY994i to EISY. The entry for the PLM still says "HouseLinc USB Modem" but as long as it's working OK I'm not going to mess with it.

One of the problems is that my driveway LED lights, which worked fine before with a program to turn them on and off in the morning and evening, controlled by an Insteon plug-in dimmer, quit working, and the EISY/IoX couldn't communicate with the dimmer. I thought the problem might be a communications issue, but I was able to plug in a new plug-in dimmer with an incandescent light plugged into it and control it from IoX without any problems. But when I plugged the LED lights' power supply back into this new dimmer, they kept going on and off about once a second, which is a known issue for LED power supplies with some Insteon dimmers. I decided to buy a plug-in Insteon on-off module to see if that solves the problem. No soft-on, soft-off like I had before, but as long as it works, I'll be OK with it.

Edited August 28, 2023 by KConover

[Techman]

@KConover

Most likely the led bulb wasn't compatible with the Insteon dimmer module, or that the dimmer circuit inside a bulb went bad, you might try a different led bulb. If the bulb(s) use an external power supply then the power supply could be the problem.

There must have been something left over from your houselinc days that got into the eisy configuration file, thus the name on the PLM.

Don't forget to backup your eisy.

 

 

[Brian H]

Another possibility. Is the power supply maybe deteriorating. Making noise or interference back on the power lines. Or has a large AC rated capacitor on the line absorbing the power line command if the RF distance is too far or blocked by where it is mounted. Both the dimmer and On-Off have a built in communications test that also my give you some more information. Changes in the home. Like a new or moved device. Can also effect power line communications. I got a replacement 22" LED TV for the kitchen. Was a signal sucker and I am old school. Dated power line only Insteon modules. It effected my home until I put it behind an X10 XPPF filter.

If the On-Off module has communications issues. You may want to look at the power supply for the LED bulbs.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Brian H
Add something

[KConover]

Thanks, both. The power supply was working before with a dimmer module, but maybe it's getting old and crotchety.  It is about time to replace it as a few of the driveway LED lights have died and need to be replaced, too. I've delayed on this because the lights are embedded under the capstones of the masonry wall beside the driveway and we need to get the entire driveway reset anyway.

[KConover]

An update and some interesting new information. First, as regards those driveway lights: I tried three (3) different new Insteon Dimmer Modules, Rev 4.2, and all three would blink the driveway lights on and off. However, when I tried an older dimmer module, Rev 2.4, it worked fine and the driveway lights are now working the way I want them to work. Whew. Only took three weeks.

On another topic, I've run into a what might be a bug in IoX, or my misunderstanding how it's supposed to work, and I'm stumped with how to work around it. I am trying to program a new 6-button Insteon wall switch, sometimes called a 5-button wall switch, as the "On" and "Off" buttons are linked and programmed at the same time by programming [wall switch name].1, in this case, Office Entrance Keypad.1. (The old one died, and a "replace" didn't work). 

So I have three scenes for my home office, as shown in the picture below, at the bottom: Desk Lights, Office High Lights, and Office Table Lamp. I want the A, B and D buttons to control each of those scenes, respectively. And, for the On and Off buttons to turn them all on or off. That's how it used to work. 

In IoX, I dragged Office Entrance Keypad.1 to the bottom scene, Office Table Lamp. The D button turns the office table lamp off and on, and the On and Off buttons turn it on and off, too.  So far, so good. It works as expected.

However, when I try to drag Office Entrance Keypad.1 to the Desk Lights scene, or the Office High Lights scene, I get the error you see in the screenshot: "Office Entrance Keypad.1 is already a controller for Office Table Lamp…" But I'm not DRAGGING it to Office Table Lamp, I'm dragging it to the Desk Lights scene, or Office High Lights scene. No matter what options I choose from this point, I can't get Office Entrance Keypad.1 to control those two other scenes. Very frustrating. What am I doing wrong?

[lilyoyo1]

14 hours ago, KConover said:

An update and some interesting new information. First, as regards those driveway lights: I tried three (3) different new Insteon Dimmer Modules, Rev 4.2, and all three would blink the driveway lights on and off. However, when I tried an older dimmer module, Rev 2.4, it worked fine and the driveway lights are now working the way I want them to work. Whew. Only took three weeks.

On another topic, I've run into a what might be a bug in IoX, or my misunderstanding how it's supposed to work, and I'm stumped with how to work around it. I am trying to program a new 6-button Insteon wall switch, sometimes called a 5-button wall switch, as the "On" and "Off" buttons are linked and programmed at the same time by programming [wall switch name].1, in this case, Office Entrance Keypad.1. (The old one died, and a "replace" didn't work). 

So I have three scenes for my home office, as shown in the picture below, at the bottom: Desk Lights, Office High Lights, and Office Table Lamp. I want the A, B and D buttons to control each of those scenes, respectively. And, for the On and Off buttons to turn them all on or off. That's how it used to work. 

In IoX, I dragged Office Entrance Keypad.1 to the bottom scene, Office Table Lamp. The D button turns the office table lamp off and on, and the On and Off buttons turn it on and off, too.  So far, so good. It works as expected.

However, when I try to drag Office Entrance Keypad.1 to the Desk Lights scene, or the Office High Lights scene, I get the error you see in the screenshot: "Office Entrance Keypad.1 is already a controller for Office Table Lamp…" But I'm not DRAGGING it to Office Table Lamp, I'm dragging it to the Desk Lights scene, or Office High Lights scene. No matter what options I choose from this point, I can't get Office Entrance Keypad.1 to control those two other scenes. Very frustrating. What am I doing wrong?

A device can only be a controller of 1 scene. 

You would create a single scene and add every device/kpl button to that scene and control it vs. Each individual scene.

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by lilyoyo1