ISY triggers programs when it should not

[JacquesB]

Hi,

 

The situation is easy to describe : the ISY / PLM trigger programs when they should not. Here is the complete situation.

 

Scene A contains a dimmer and an OutletLinc.

 

Scene D contains 3 different dimmers and another OutletLinc.

 

Each scene is associated with the proper button on a remotelinc.

 

When RemoteA or RemoteD is turned On / Off / Dimmed or brighten, everything work as it should.

 

I created 2 programs in my ISY (latest firmware). First is

 

If Remote A is switched FastOn

Then

Turn On OutletLinc C

 

Second is

If Remote D is switched FastOn

Then

Turn On OutletLinc E

 

Both of these programs have their equivalent for turning Off.

 

First set of programs works properly, but when Remote D is switched FastOn / FastOff, the ISY triggers both set of program and the result is now OutletLinc C is also turned On when it should not.

 

In the admin console, I clearly see that first program (Remote A) is executed when Remote D is switched FastOn.

 

I tried to restore OutletLinc C, Remote A and Remote D, but the problem being a program started when it should not, restore did no help.

 

So, why the PLM / ISY run a program requiring FastOn on Remote A when the command is FastOn on Remote D ? Can I prevent that ?

 

This trick is very useful because it offers the independent control of 3 devices on a single RemoteLinc button :

Bright the scene and only the dimmer comes.

Turn the scene On and fade the dimmer down for getting only the OutletLinc.

Fast On the scene and switch it back Off and you get only the second OutletLinc.

 

Only thing is, the ISY must not considers FastOn on RemoteD as being also FastOn on Remote A, as mine does.

 

Thanks for your help,

 

Jacques B

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi JacquesB,

 

Long time no see.

 

The first thing I would like to know is which firmware version are you running.

 

Secondly, would you be kind enough to use Tools | Event Viewer on level 3 and see the traffic when you do a fast on on RemoteD and then RemoteA?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[oberkc]

A couple of thoughts and questions....

 

Scene A contains a dimmer and an OutletLinc.

 

Scene D contains 3 different dimmers and another OutletLinc.

 

You have a dimmers as "controllers" in a scene with outletlincs? Since outletlincs do not have dimming capability, are you satisfied with how this works?

 

Each scene is associated with the proper button on a remotelinc.

 

By "associated", do you mean that they are defined as a controller in that scene?

 

When RemoteA or RemoteD is turned On / Off / Dimmed or brighten, everything work as it should.

 

May we assume that RemoteA is controller in scene A and RemoteD is controller in sceneD? How do your outletlincs react to a dim command?

 

First set of programs works properly, but when Remote D is switched FastOn / FastOff, the ISY triggers both set of program and the result is now OutletLinc C is also turned On when it should not.

 

Is it possible that you have some stray links? From the admin panel, if you click on the remote D button, what associations (controls, controlled by) do you see? Does it show that remote D controls any devices other than those in scene D?

 

Is it possible that you have any stray X-10 addresses associated with these devices?

[JacquesB]

Hello Michel,

 

My firmware is the latest, 2.7.14.

 

As for the traces, here they are. I first double-clicked Remote A. The scene came up, then the program turned on the extra outletlinc. I turned all of them off, again with a double-click on Remote A.

 

Next is the double-click on Remote D and as expected (but un-wished), the first extra OutletLinc came up (and down when I FastOff'ed Remote D).

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:25 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 00.00.01 C7 12 00 LTON-F (00)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:25 AM : [standard-Group][0A.2E.ED-->Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:25 AM : [ A 2E ED 1] DFON 0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:25 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 00.00.01 C7 12 00 LTON-F (00)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:25 AM : [standard-Group][0A.2E.ED-->Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:25 AM : Duplicate: ignored

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:25 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 00.00.01 C7 12 00 LTON-F (00): Process Message: failed

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:25 AM : [standard-Group][0A.2E.ED-->Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:25 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 0F.D5.40 41 12 01 LTON-F (01)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:25 AM : [standard-Cleanup][0A.2E.ED-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:26 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 0F.D5.40 42 12 01 LTON-F (01)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:26 AM : [standard-Cleanup][0A.2E.ED-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=2, Hops Left=0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:26 AM : Duplicate: ignored

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:26 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 0F.D5.40 42 12 01 LTON-F (01): Process Message: failed

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:26 AM : [standard-Cleanup][0A.2E.ED-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=2, Hops Left=0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:26 AM : [ 10 5 B1 1] ST 255

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:26 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 10.E7.57 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:26 AM : [ 10 5 B1 2] ST 255

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:26 AM : [ A 2E ED 1] ST 255

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:26 AM : [ 11 24 BD 1] ST 255

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:26 AM : [ 11 4A 49 1] ST 255

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:27 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 10.E7.57 0F.D5.40 26 11 FF LTONRR (FF)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:27 AM : [standard-Direct Ack][10.E7.57-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=2, Hops Left=1

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:27 AM : [ 10 E7 57 1] ST 255

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:35 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 00.00.01 C7 14 00 LTOFF-F(00)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:35 AM : [standard-Group][0A.2E.ED-->Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:35 AM : [ A 2E ED 1] DFOF 0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:35 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 00.00.01 C7 14 00 LTOFF-F(00)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:35 AM : [standard-Group][0A.2E.ED-->Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:35 AM : Duplicate: ignored

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:35 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 00.00.01 C7 14 00 LTOFF-F(00): Process Message: failed

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:35 AM : [standard-Group][0A.2E.ED-->Group=1] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:36 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 0F.D5.40 41 14 01 LTOFF-F(01)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:36 AM : [standard-Cleanup][0A.2E.ED-->ISY/PLM Group=1] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:36 AM : [ 10 5 B1 1] ST 0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:36 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 10.E7.57 0F 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:36 AM : [ 10 5 B1 2] ST 0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:36 AM : [ A 2E ED 1] ST 0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:36 AM : [ 11 24 BD 1] ST 0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:36 AM : [ 11 4A 49 1] ST 0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:37 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 10.E7.57 0F.D5.40 2B 13 00 LTOFFRR(00)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:37 AM : [standard-Direct Ack][10.E7.57-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:37 AM : [ 10 E7 57 1] ST 0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:44 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 00.00.04 C7 12 00 LTON-F (00)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:44 AM : [standard-Group][0A.2E.ED-->Group=4] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:44 AM : [ A 2E ED 4] DFON 0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:44 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 00.00.04 C7 12 00 LTON-F (00)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:44 AM : [standard-Group][0A.2E.ED-->Group=4] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:44 AM : Duplicate: ignored

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:44 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 00.00.04 C7 12 00 LTON-F (00): Process Message: failed

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:44 AM : [standard-Group][0A.2E.ED-->Group=4] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:45 AM : [ 10 5 B1 6] ST 255

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:45 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 10.E8.3C 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:45 AM : [ 11 23 95 1] ST 255

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:45 AM : [ 10 F0 9A 1] ST 255

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:45 AM : [ 4 DC 7 1] ST 255

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:45 AM : [ A 2E ED 4] ST 255

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:45 AM : [ 10 F2 2C 1] ST 255

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:45 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 10.E8.3C 0F.D5.40 2B 11 FF LTONRR (FF)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:45 AM : [standard-Direct Ack][10.E8.3C-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:45 AM : [ 10 E8 3C 1] ST 255

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:47 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 0F.D5.40 41 12 04 LTON-F (04)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:47 AM : [standard-Cleanup][0A.2E.ED-->ISY/PLM Group=4] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:47 AM : [ A 2E ED 1] DFON 4

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:47 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 0F.D5.40 42 12 04 LTON-F (04)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:47 AM : [standard-Cleanup][0A.2E.ED-->ISY/PLM Group=4] Max Hops=2, Hops Left=0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:47 AM : Duplicate: ignored

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:47 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 0F.D5.40 42 12 04 LTON-F (04): Process Message: failed

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:47 AM : [standard-Cleanup][0A.2E.ED-->ISY/PLM Group=4] Max Hops=2, Hops Left=0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:47 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 0F.D5.40 47 12 04 LTON-F (04)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:47 AM : [standard-Cleanup][0A.2E.ED-->ISY/PLM Group=4] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:47 AM : Duplicate: ignored

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:47 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 0F.D5.40 47 12 04 LTON-F (04): Process Message: failed

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:47 AM : [standard-Cleanup][0A.2E.ED-->ISY/PLM Group=4] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:48 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 0F.D5.40 47 12 04 LTON-F (04)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:48 AM : [standard-Cleanup][0A.2E.ED-->ISY/PLM Group=4] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:48 AM : Duplicate: ignored

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:48 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 0F.D5.40 47 12 04 LTON-F (04): Process Message: failed

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:48 AM : [standard-Cleanup][0A.2E.ED-->ISY/PLM Group=4] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:48 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 0F.D5.40 47 12 04 LTON-F (04)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:48 AM : [standard-Cleanup][0A.2E.ED-->ISY/PLM Group=4] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:48 AM : Duplicate: ignored

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:48 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 0F.D5.40 47 12 04 LTON-F (04): Process Message: failed

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:48 AM : [standard-Cleanup][0A.2E.ED-->ISY/PLM Group=4] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:49 AM : [ 10 5 B1 1] ST 255

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:49 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 10.E7.57 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:49 AM : [ 10 5 B1 2] ST 255

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:49 AM : [ A 2E ED 1] ST 255

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:49 AM : [ 11 24 BD 1] ST 255

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:49 AM : [ 11 4A 49 1] ST 255

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:49 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 10.E7.57 0F.D5.40 2B 11 FF LTONRR (FF)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:49 AM : [standard-Direct Ack][10.E7.57-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:41:49 AM : [ 10 E7 57 1] ST 255

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:01 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 00.00.04 C7 14 00 LTOFF-F(00)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:01 AM : [standard-Group][0A.2E.ED-->Group=4] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:01 AM : [ A 2E ED 4] DFOF 0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:01 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 00.00.04 C7 14 00 LTOFF-F(00)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:01 AM : [standard-Group][0A.2E.ED-->Group=4] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:01 AM : Duplicate: ignored

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:01 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 00.00.04 C7 14 00 LTOFF-F(00): Process Message: failed

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:01 AM : [standard-Group][0A.2E.ED-->Group=4] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:02 AM : [ 10 5 B1 6] ST 0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:02 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 10.E8.3C 0F 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:02 AM : [ 11 23 95 1] ST 0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:02 AM : [ 10 F0 9A 1] ST 0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:02 AM : [ 4 DC 7 1] ST 0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:02 AM : [ A 2E ED 4] ST 0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:02 AM : [ 10 F2 2C 1] ST 0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:02 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 10.E8.3C 0F.D5.40 2B 13 00 LTOFFRR(00)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:02 AM : [standard-Direct Ack][10.E8.3C-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:02 AM : [ 10 E8 3C 1] ST 0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:04 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.2E.ED 0F.D5.40 41 14 04 LTOFF-F(04)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:04 AM : [standard-Cleanup][0A.2E.ED-->ISY/PLM Group=4] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:04 AM : [ A 2E ED 1] DFOF 4

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:04 AM : [ 10 5 B1 1] ST 0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:04 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 10.E7.57 0F 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:04 AM : [ 10 5 B1 2] ST 0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:04 AM : [ A 2E ED 1] ST 0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:04 AM : [ 11 24 BD 1] ST 0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:04 AM : [ 11 4A 49 1] ST 0

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:05 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 10.E7.57 0F.D5.40 2B 13 00 LTOFFRR(00)

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:05 AM : [standard-Direct Ack][10.E7.57-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

ven. 04/09/2010 07:42:05 AM : [ 10 E7 57 1] ST 0

 

 

Thanks for your help,

 

Jacques

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Jacques,

 

The logs look normal and I cannot find anything out of the ordinary.

 

Would you be kind enough to disable the RemoteD FastOn program and retry? If it happens again, would you be kind enough to check the log to see what caused your OutletLinc to turn on (Program, Web, System)?

 

And finally, would you be kind enough to use the Find/Replace function on My Program to find all occurrences of the offending OutletLinc?

 

Thanks and with kind regards,

Michel

[JacquesB]

Hello Michel, oberkc,

 

Fisrt, Michel, your idea was good : disabling the programs that react to RemoteD FastOn and FastOff also disabled the triggering of the OutletLinc that was not supposed to happen.

 

Here are those programs (parts of them are in french ; sorry about that...)

 

Turning On :

If
       Control 'Devices / Remote / Remote D' is switched Fast On
    Or Control 'Devices / Salon / Sal-KPF-Chambre' is switched Fast On
    Or (
            Status  'Devices / Chambre des maitres / ChM-DM-Plafond' is On
        And Control 'Devices / Chambre des maitres / ChM-DM-Plafond' is switched Fast On
       )
    Or (
            Status  'Devices / Chambre des maitres / ChM-DM-Garde-robe' is On
        And Control 'Devices / Chambre des maitres / ChM-DM-Garde-robe' is switched Fast On
       )

Then
       Run Program 'Eau' (Then Path)

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Turning Off

If
       Control 'Devices / Remote / Remote D' is switched Fast Off
    Or Control 'Devices / Salon / Sal-KPF-Chambre' is switched Fast Off
    Or (
            Status  'Devices / Chambre des maitres / ChM-DM-Plafond' is Off
        And Control 'Devices / Chambre des maitres / ChM-DM-Plafond' is switched Fast Off
       )
    Or (
            Status  'Devices / Chambre des maitres / ChM-DM-Garde-robe' is Off
        And Control 'Devices / Chambre des maitres / ChM-DM-Garde-robe' is switched Fast Off
       )

Then
       Run Program 'Eau' (Else Path)

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

The program taking the action (Eau) :

If
  - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition')

Then
       Set 'Devices / Chambre des maitres / ChM-OL-Eau' On
       Wait  1 hour and 30 minutes 
       Set 'Devices / Chambre des maitres / ChM-OL-Eau' Off

Else
       Set 'Devices / Chambre des maitres / ChM-OL-Eau' Off

 

When the first 2 are disabled, FastOn / FastOff on Remote D does not turn On / Off the other OutletLinc (named Devices / Salon / Sal-OL-Lampe).

 

Any idea ???

 

Oberkc,

 

Yes, I use dimmers as controllers in scene with OutletLincs and I'm very happy with that. Should I wish the scene to behave with the OutletLinc, I just have to click it On or Off. If I wish to have the scene behaves without the OutletLinc, I can dim or bright the scene and manage only other components.

 

About the association, yes, I meant each button on the remote is a controller of the corresponding scene.

 

Yes, Remote A is a controller of scene A and Remote D is a controller of scene D. OutletLincs don't react at all to dim or bright commands.

 

There are no remaining links in the remote. Not only did I restored it, but there is clearly a delay between the fast on / fast off and the triggering of the Outletlinc. I also see the program as being executed in the ISY console, so I'm sure the triggering is from the ISY and not the Insteon device.

 

The use of a dimmer as a controller in a scene containing an Outletlinc gives me the independent control of both devices with a single button. If I wish to have only the dimmer, I bright it slowly up to 100% and the Outletlinc remains Off. If I wish to have only the OutletLinc, I turn the scene On and next, use the dim to turn off the dimmer.

 

My program adds the independent control of a third device on a single button. The result is that I can reach 18 independent status with a single 6 buttons RemoteLinc.

 

Thanks to both of you for your reply,

 

Jacques

[JacquesB]

As another proof that the problem is really the ISY triggering a program when it should not, disabling the programs managing the offending OutletLinc also neutralize the problem : when the programs associated with Scene A FastOn / FastOff are disable, a FastOn / FastOff on Remote D no longer turn on the OutletLinc I wish to control with Remote A and keep turning its own OutletLinc.

 

Re-enabling the programs restore the problem.

 

How can we dig deeper in the processing of the ISY for finding why it executes programs when it should not ?

 

Thanks again for your help,

 

Jacques

[oberkc]

Yes, Remote A is a controller of scene A and Remote D is a controller of scene D.

 

What confused me was why you did not include the remotelinc buttons in the initial description of scenes A and D.

 

Did you try Michel Kohanim's second suggestion? If so, what were the results?

 

And finally, would you be kind enough to use the Find/Replace function on My Program to find all occurrences of the offending OutletLinc?

 

What is the relationship between your first two programs and your last three programs. In your last three, I see no mention of a Remote A, Outletlinc C, or Outletlinc E. Program 'Eau' appears to control only one device: 'ChM-OL-Eau'. Is this one of your outletlincs in question?

 

I apologize for all the questions. Hopefully, someone can see somthing that will help. Personally, I am doubtful that the ISY is making such an error. I still suspect that there is still some hidden link or X-10 address somewhere causing this unwanted behaviour.

[JacquesB]

Hello Oberkc,

 

My first description was short. The programs were resumed, just as the scenes.

 

I did the test Michel suggested and the very first was positive : by disabling the program usually triggered by Remote D, the Outletlinc that turns On when it should not remained off. I tried it the other way too : disabling the program designed for answering Remote A's FastOn also prevent that OutletLinc to be triggered by Remote D.

 

Also, I have no X10 component at all on my network : I'm 100% Insteon.

 

The fact that the disabling a program stopped the triggering of the OutletLinc is a proof that this program was the source of it. The delay between the FastOn and the OutletLinc actually turning On is also a proof that it is not triggered directly by Insteon or X10.

 

The problem is really programs executed by the ISY when they should not.

 

Jacques

[Sub-Routine]

Hi Jaucques,

 

Would you post the programs you use with Remote A? Are there any references to devices in the scene controlled with the Remote D button?

 

Rand

[oberkc]

I did the test Michel suggested and the very first was positive

 

I saw that you did the first, but I missed your response regarding the second suggested test.

 

Also, I have no X10 component at all on my network : I'm 100% Insteon.

 

But this does not preclude the possibility that some of your insteon devices have an X-10 address. I have seen many posts from those reporting residual X-10 addresses on new devices.

 

The fact that the disabling a program stopped the triggering of the OutletLinc is a proof that this program was the source of it.

 

That is strong evidence, indeed. The question remains, however, about the cause of this program running when not expected.

 

Perhaps I am not smart enough to properly phrase questions, or to recognize your answers to my questions. Regardless, I think I have exhausted my usefulness. It I think this changes, I will jump back in.

[JacquesB]

Sure, here are these programs triggered by Remote A :

 

If
       Control 'Devices / Remote / Remote A' is switched Fast On
    Or Control 'Devices / Salon / Sal-KPB-100' is switched Fast On

Then
       Set 'Devices / Salon / Sal-OL-Lampe-Bar' On

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

If
       Control 'Devices / Salon / Sal-KPB-100' is switched Fast Off
    Or Control 'Devices / Remote / Remote A' is switched Fast Off

Then
       Set 'Devices / Salon / Sal-OL-Lampe-Bar' Off

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

If these two are disabled, or the 2 responding to Remote D posted sooner, "Devices / Salon / Sal-OL-Lampe-Bar" does not answer Remote D's FastOn / FastOff anymore.

 

Thanks for your help,

 

Jacques

[Sub-Routine]

Do the programs function correctly if you use the switches, ChM-DM-Plafond or ChM-DM-Garde-robe?

[JacquesB]

Hi Rand,

 

Yes, everything works fine if I use the FastOn / FastOff of the others controllers (ChM-DM-Plafond ; ChM-DM-Garde-robe or Sal-KPF-Chambre). The FastOn / FastOff from these controllers triggers only the correct programs and Sal-OL-Lampe remains off.

 

Only FastOn FastOff from RemoteD is confusing the ISY.

 

Thanks for the idea about this test, a good one I forgot to do,

 

Jacques

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Jacques,

 

Apologies for tardy reply. One more simple test would be to have a single program that tests Control for Remote D. i.e. does this new program also get confused?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[JacquesB]

Hello Michel,

 

I did this test yesterday : disable the actual program answering Remote D FastOn ; confirm the ISY does not trigger the Remote A's program ; create a new program for Remote D and... confirmed that again ISY double-reacted to that new program and turned on the OutletLinc I wish to be controlled by Remote A's FastOn.

 

Also, I have two others programs like these, answering Remote C and F FastOn and these one never trigger something else, neither are they executed when another Remote FastOn is used.

 

Really, really strange behavior...

 

Thanks for your help,

 

Jacques

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Jacques,

 

Indeed quite strange!

 

I need to ask you for a huge favor! :

1. Make sure you have a good backup of your system

2. Export My Programs to a file of your choice in a safe place

3. Remove ALL the programs in Program Details tab

4. Try your RL ... if the outletlinc still turns on, then the problem is a link in the OutletLinc

5. If it does not, then please create a program for some other button on your RL which turns on the outletlinc. If this program causes your outletlinc to turn on erroneously, then I would suspect a bug (though this has been tested and I doubt if this is the case).

 

Thanks and with kind regards,

Michel

 

Hello Michel

I did this test yesterday : disable the actual program answering Remote D FastOn ; confirm the ISY does not trigger the Remote A's program ; create a new program for Remote D and... confirmed that again ISY double-reacted to that new program and turned on the OutletLinc I wish to be controlled by Remote A's FastOn.

 

Also, I have two others programs like these, answering Remote C and F FastOn and these one never trigger something else, neither are they executed when another Remote FastOn is used.

 

Really, really strange behavior...

 

Thanks for your help,

 

Jacques

[JacquesB]

Hello Michel,

 

Here are the results : exactly how I expected them.

 

A-ISY without any program

 

The OutletLinc does not turn on. Expected because when any pair of programs for Remote A or D were disabled, the OutletLinc did not turned on.

 

B-The ISY with only a program for the OutletLinc, associated with the FastOn of another button (I used E) : OutletLinc did not turn On.

 

If
       Control 'Devices / Remote / Remote E' is switched Fast On

Then
       Set 'Devices / Salon / Sal-OL-Lampe-Bar' On

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Again, it is as expected : Even before, disabling only the programs associated with Remote D was enough to prevent the OutletLinc to turn On.

 

C-More tests in the same direction

 

I created a second program.

 

If
       Control 'Devices / Remote / Remote D' is switched Fast On

Then
       Set 'Devices / Chambre des maitres / ChM-OL-Eau' On

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Again, the OutletLinc did not turned On because the other program is associated with a FastOn on Remote E and not Remote A. Even before, programs answering Remote C or F's FastOn were not executed by the ISY when they should not.

 

D-Back in trouble

 

if
       Control 'Devices / Remote / Remote A' is switched Fast On

Then
       Set 'Devices / Salon / Sal-OL-Lampe-Bar' On

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

With only these 3 programs in the ISY, the OutletLinc "Devices / Salon / Sal-SW-Lampe" turns On when Remote D is turned FastOn.

 

When reading the traces I sent you, I founded the Insteon action about that OutletLinc after I pressed Remote D's FastOn. The address of the OutletLinc is 10.E7.57.

 

Would you wish to connect yourself to my ISY for doing tests on your own ? I have a VPN that I can give you access to if you wish.

 

Thanks again for your help,

 

Jacques

[JacquesB]

Even more for you :

 

I replaced the Insteon command for the OutletLinc with a Notify. I did this in the 4 programs : the On and Off of Remote A and Remote D.

 

Here are the messages I received :

Eau - On

'ChM-Main' scene set Fast On (0) by 'Remote D (A 2E ED 4)' at 2010/04/11  1:44:23 PM.

----------------------------------------

    At: 2010/04/11  1:44:23 PM
Program: Eau - On
 Scene: ChM-Main
Device: Remote D (A 2E ED 4)
Action: Fast On
 Value: 0

 

Lampe bar - On

'Sal-100' scene set Fast On (4) by 'Remote A (A 2E ED 1)' at 2010/04/11  1:44:24 PM.

----------------------------------------

    At: 2010/04/11  1:44:24 PM
Program: Lampe bar - On
 Scene: Sal-100
Device: Remote A (A 2E ED 1)
Action: Fast On
 Value: 4

 

Eau - Off

'ChM-Main' scene set Fast Off (0) by 'Remote D (A 2E ED 4)' at 2010/04/11  1:44:36 PM.

----------------------------------------

    At: 2010/04/11  1:44:36 PM
Program: Eau - Off
 Scene: ChM-Main
Device: Remote D (A 2E ED 4)
Action: Fast Off
 Value: 0

 

Lampe bar - Off

'Sal-100' scene set Fast Off (4) by 'Remote A (A 2E ED 1)' at 2010/04/11  1:44:38 PM.

----------------------------------------

    At: 2010/04/11  1:44:38 PM
Program: Lampe bar - Off
 Scene: Sal-100
Device: Remote A (A 2E ED 1)
Action: Fast Off
 Value: 4

 

Note that none of the devices in Sal-100 turned On (they never did when Remote D's FastOn was used AND the OutletLinc was turned On by the ISY).

 

At the end, the ISY is the only device confounding Remote D FastOn / FastOff and Remote A FastOn / FastOff. Also, there are no other confusion between FastOn / FastOff of the other buttons I use (C, E, F), even in the ISY.

 

Jacques

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Jacques,

 

Thanks so very much for the experimentation. I did the same test here and could not reproduce it. So, I would have to think that somehow either the PLM or the RL is sending out the wrong group number to ISY.

 

I do have an extra RL that I would be delighted to send you to test with. If you are amenable, please send an email to tech@universal-devices.com and I'll arrange it for you.

 

With kind regards,

Michel