Bryant Mini-Splits

[Scott Korvek]

Anyone have these devices and figured out how to interface them with IoX/Polyglot?  I'm about to replace part of my HVAC system with some high-efficiency variable speed Bryant ductless minisplits. I've already got occupancy sensors and temp sensors in most rooms and I want to add additional levels of automation than you'd get from the handheld remotes.  Time of day changes, automated setbacks based upon home occupancy, room occupancy, season, external temp, etc. Also since I'm still in a hybrid system with and old hydronic boiler for the winter I need some more intelligent control than exists on-device itself to coordinate whether or not there's any supplemental base heating being provided. I have my rep inquiring with the manufacturer, but was looking for field experience if anyone had any.  

There is a 24v control kit, but then I'm adding one to each unit (8 of them so far, more to come) with a dedicated Z-wave or Zigbee room thermostat and all the remodeling that comes with it so I can manually tell it which mode and which temp to use, sort of neutering it's inbuilt functions and that's a lot of extra expense (and programming) if there's an easier way.

There's also a Wifi option- but who knows what custom command set that uses. I didn't see any nodeserver out there so far for what its worth. And while I currently have the Honeywell home/Residio Ttats for my old hydronic (and at my commercial properties) I haven't been able to get that to work within IoX yet with the nodeserver. Not a real fan of a cloud service for HVAC anyways especially one running on the graces of that nodeservers' free cloud server to interface.

Thanks.

[apostolakisl]

If you are getting the 24v adapter and standard smart thermostats, what is it you are needing?  There are several brands of smart thermostats that have node servers, If you pick one of them, you should be good.  Though I would be surprised if you ever came close to recovering the cost of buying 8 smart thermostats with electricity savings.  I would speculate you are spending $2000 to get 8 smart thermostats plus whatever the 24v adapters cost.

[Scott Korvek]

About $1600 for Tstats plus whatever the adapters cost. This house is huge, old, and, relatively uninsulated (aside from 13" of brick exterior) - long term project to weatherize of course. Given the cost of my utility bills, active management can provide me very significant ROI in all seasons plus reduce our energy footprint for the sake of emissions reduction. 

The only T-stat nodeservers I can find are ecobee, venstar, and Honeywell home. Mentioned Honeywell home above (I have one for my existing gas boiler). Nice but overpriced for this setup and won't use any of those features other than direct external control (and relies on TWO cloud solutions chained together to function). Happy with them for simple management of my commercial properties which are schedule-based. Not the best for home use in this situation.

But again, ANY of those options are the 24v adapter plus a 3rd party Tstat setup somehow hooked to IoX either via a nodeserver or a Zwave/Zigbee T-Stat.

Carrier/Bryant has a wifi solution (inbuilt into some of the heads, as a separate device add on for others) which connects to a phone app and presumably their cloud. I don't see a nodeserver for that. That would be the only way I can see, unless someone has found a different solution, to avoid the 24v adapters and external thermostats. Anyway, not looking to fiddle with HVAC all day on my phone- looking to automate it so I don't have to touch it at all but it responds to the conditions programmed into IoX already with home/away/windows/room occupancy/season/time of day/status of gas boiler/external temp & humidity/etc.

And they also resell ecobee as their "intellisense" option- which as best I can gather (waiting on mfr info) is just the ecobee tstat and the 24v interface.

Standard out of the box solution for minsplits is a handheld remote for each zone/head/room. I cannot find any way to get control of the zone with IoX using those- cannot find info on if they are IR/Bluetooth/whatever or if the protocol is open enough that commands can be sent to the head from another device (IoX via Zwave IR blaster, network, etc.) These are residential units, not things designed for commercial centralized/networked control (and those do not meet SEER/HPSF targets for residential incentives).

Hence the query if anyone has any experience with these.

If I find no other elegant/inexpensive solution, I will likely end up using the 24 interfaces for each room with a Venstar Tstat as those have local API control as an option and there's a maintained nodeserver available for that.

 

[apostolakisl]

Minisplit IR remotes from what I have read are not hackable in any reasonable sort of way, plus you wouldn't get the status updates back to ISY.  I have a minisplit at my church and looked at getting ISY to control it and it didn't look good.

So this means 24v adapters and one of the brands you mentioned.  Those thermostats usually run around $250 which is where my estimate came from.  Not sure about z-wave thermostats that would be native to ISY rather than a node server.  Something like this https://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-TH6320ZW2003-Thermostat-Comfort-Control/dp/B07HFL7R44/ref=asc_df_B07HFL7R44?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80608063550902&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584207589933379&psc=1

might work and be much less expensive.  I can't confirm if it will be recognized by ISY and populate with all the right nodes.

[bpwwer]

Creating a node server specifically for the mini-splits probably wouldn't be less expensive, depends on if there might e more demand than just you.

A quick search led me to the following docs.  

https://openapi.ing.carrier.com/Content/pdf/getting-started.pdf

It also looks like there may be an HA integration available which would help. 

If you can verify that there's a published API that's accessible to third parties then you may be able to work out a deal with one of the node server developers to create a node server.

[dbwarner5]

If you stated goal was to prefer to be local vs reliant on the internet, then an inexpensive Z-wave like mentioned above should work well. 

If you aren't that interested in z-wave, there is already an ecobee NS and the cheapest ecobee https://www.amazon.com/Ecobee3-Thermostat-Wi-Fi-Works-Alexa/dp/B01K48T09Y/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2PJOTZ7UEUQ75&keywords=ecobee&qid=1695418818&s=home-garden&sprefix=ecobee%2Cgarden%2C136&sr=1-3

would also work via the ISY. 

I use both, local Z-wave Honeywell at my main house, ecobee at a second house, that the ISY located at the first house controls. 

[Scott Korvek]

I have Z-wave at one of our commercial properties- it was a royal PITA to work with- but I started back when we were on the 300 series boards and the old ISY-99i. I recently redid it all now that I've migrated that property over to the eISY with the new Zmatter dongle- still a work in progress. So willing to give it a try at home, but this would be the only Z-wave devices in the home.  Plus I've never found any pretty-looking Z-wave T-Stats! 

The venstars have local control - so that's the big selling point for me. They aren't much more expensive than the ecobee lites. I can get 2 Honeywell T9s or ecobees (any model) for $100 off each from my utility but of course will eventually need more (this is stage 1 of a 3-part HVAC install- 6 zones now, 2 more later).

@dbwarner5 How do you like the ecobees? Not interested in the security features- not really the Siri or Alexa bits either- so the lites are likely to be the ones I'd put in in most zones if I went that route (except a few where I wanted a remote monitor for averaging over a large area or attached bathroom).  I've seen good reviews and bad reviews about them being over-complicated. I'll note that a decade ago I used a Honeywell Z-wave attached to an ISY-99i in a single-zone setup and the Honeywell unit worked well when I could get it to connect (external antenna setup/sole device). Dead simple. Ugly T-stat though, that's for sure. Not a big deal in the hall above the basement stairs, but for this home they'll be in every bedroom and common areas.

@bpwwer Thank you for that link- but it appears to apply to the evolution system which I believe is not the same. At least it's marketed differently and the hardware under that line is not compatible. It's very high efficiency stuff but limited in size/piping/zones so I cannot use it in my application. I will ask the installer to check with the manufacturer if their add-on wifi system connects to the same servers/uses the same API on the backend.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Scott Korvek

[dbwarner5]

@Scott Korvek Scott I like the ecobee. works well, the ISY integration is great. Dont really use many of the features since I use the ISY to change temps etc. But we do rent the home at times so I do have a rental program that is local to the ecobee that was pretty easy to set up and I can initiate it remotely. 

I like that it also has fan controls to run the fan X minutes per hour to keep circulation up even when AC isnt called for. 

[Athlon]

To control my Mitsubishi mini splits I use Sensibo units, and there is a PG3 node server for those. I have a few programs that control them and they work great.

https://sensibo.com/

My Mitsubishi remotes use IR, however 'everything' is sent to the units with a complicated IR blast that no normal programmable remote can handle. Sensibo does it perfectly, and their app isn't too shabby either.

I use my Ecobee thermostats and their sensors in some of my IoX programs to control my mini splits.

 

[apostolakisl]

1 hour ago, Athlon said:

To control my Mitsubishi mini splits I use Sensibo units, and there is a PG3 node server for those. I have a few programs that control them and they work great.

https://sensibo.com/

My Mitsubishi remotes use IR, however 'everything' is sent to the units with a complicated IR blast that no normal programmable remote can handle. Sensibo does it perfectly, and their app isn't too shabby either.

I use my Ecobee thermostats and their sensors in some of my IoX programs to control my mini splits.

 

That is great info.  I was unaware of these and had given up on integrating mini splits with ISY.  Which sensibo unit do you have?  They have several and it is a little ambiguous as to which I would really need.  Basically, I just want ISY to be able to see the current temp and control the set temp as well as state (heat/cool). 

[Athlon]

4 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

That is great info.  I was unaware of these and had given up on integrating mini splits with ISY.  Which sensibo unit do you have?  They have several and it is a little ambiguous as to which I would really need.  Basically, I just want ISY to be able to see the current temp and control the set temp as well as state (heat/cool). 

I have Sensibo Skys (4 of them). https://sensibo.com/products/sensibo-sky

They've released a newer model since I bought these a few years ago but the Skys do more than enough for my needs. I have 4 splits in my home, and three heating zones.

Sensibo also has a subscription service (of course they do 🤢), but again, I don't need that so I don't subscribe to it. My Polisy in conjunction with these is perfect for me.

[Athlon]

It looks like the best deal on the Sensibos is direct from them at the moment (it's where I bought mine).

[Scott Korvek]

Neat- so you just stick them on the wall somewhere they can blast to the head unit and then it sends out the commands? 

Did the "Dry" mode ever show up in the nodeserver? Are you able to control enough of the functions beyond just on/off/temp to make it worthwhile? 

The Air looks nice- pairs the unit with a motion sensor for occupancy control (but of course I've got that with Elk already).

A bit confused how you're using the ecobees as well. Is that controlling the minisplits too or is that hooked to your conventional or "main" heating unit elsewhere so you can use the ISY for integration of a hybrid system?

[Athlon]

Yes - they can stick to the wall. They are very light. I have two of them just laying on a table under the splits in those rooms. The other two are stuck to the wall behind furniture under those units.

As for 'Dry' mode in the node server - no, it's not there. However, at least for my Mitsubishi system, if I wanted to just dehumidify with them, I could set that mode in the Sensibo app. If you program ISY to only turn them on or off, the mode will not change (although you could). I never use 'dry' mode here - only heat or A/C.

I use the ISY to control them mostly for occupancy, both as we come and go from home as well as move around the house. I use my Ecobee thermostats and sensors because I believe they are more accurate - and the visual (looking at the thermostat) just makes sense to me and mostly Mrs. Athlon. I also have a program that switches them off when in heating mode if the outside temperature falls below 19 degrees. They are not as efficient as my oil heat when it's that cold. I use the WeatherBit node for that information.

As an example, I use the ISY and Sensibo node to change the temperature setting on each of my four units when we are done watching TV in the family room each evening and go upstairs to the bedroom.

It's also nice when we want to turn the A/C on to just say "Alexa, turn on the A/C" and not have to run around the house.

When we built our home in 1989, we did not have central A/C installed. We did the mini splits about 10 years ago. We have oil heat to heat our house, so there is only a 'virtual' connection between the two systems (my Polisy).

 

 

[apostolakisl]

6 hours ago, Athlon said:

It looks like the best deal on the Sensibos is direct from them at the moment (it's where I bought mine).

Turns out Amazon is better for just one unit.  $99 and then a $10 coupon is applied at checkout plus free shipping makes it $89.  Sensibo is $85 plus $15 shipping if you only buy one.  If yo buy multiples, you get free shipping though.  I just bought one.  This is for my church, and I don't have PG3 yet there, so now I am going to have to do that.  Can you put PG3 on a rpi?  I have PG2 running on a pi there already.

[Athlon]

20 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

Turns out Amazon is better for just one unit.  $99 and then a $10 coupon is applied at checkout plus free shipping makes it $89.  Sensibo is $85 plus $15 shipping if you only buy one.  If yo buy multiples, you get free shipping though.  I just bought one.  This is for my church, and I don't have PG3 yet there, so now I am going to have to do that.  Can you put PG3 on a rpi?  I have PG2 running on a pi there already.

Yeah - I was looking at the 3 pack.

Not sure about PG3 on the RPi - I had PG2 on one as well before my Polisy. I don't think you can though (PG3 on RPi).

[apostolakisl]

1 hour ago, Athlon said:

Yeah - I was looking at the 3 pack.

Not sure about PG3 on the RPi - I had PG2 on one as well before my Polisy. I don't think you can though (PG3 on RPi).

I see sensibo is on pg2, so problem solved.