Migrating from ISY 994i Pro v.4.9.0 Z-Wave V4.55 300 series to EISY & Zmatter

[PhanTomiZ]

Hi,

Have the hardware sitting on the desk waiting to get installed.  Migrating and reading as much as I can.  Wiki says:

If you are migrating your Z-Wave network

• You must be using a 500 Series Board in the ISY-994

Doesn't say if you have a 300 series board.  What are the instructions for my setup?

Thanks

PhanTomiZ

Edited December 19, 2023 by PhanTomiZ
Fat fingered

[DennisC]

8 hours ago, PhanTomiZ said:

What are the instructions for my setup?

You can not migrate Zwave, instead will need to rebuild your Zwave network.

[PhanTomiZ]

3 hours ago, DennisC said:

You can not migrate Zwave, instead will need to rebuild your Zwave network.

Thanks for your prompt reply!

Outch!!!!  Do you know if there are any guides, pointers, procedures or posts?

My ISY has been chugging along for almost 10 years!  My programs are intertwined with Insteon and Z-wave.  This might be, for me, a multi year rebuild.  Not sure my wife would be so patient, as she's gotten used to the automation as have I.  

Do you know if there are many others in the same situation of having to rebuild?

Thanks again

PhaTomiZ

[Geddy]

54 minutes ago, PhanTomiZ said:

Do you know if there are many others in the same situation of having to rebuild?

Yes, there were several in the past. When the only way to migrate was to have ISY994 with 5.3.4 firmware (that meant it basically had to be a 500 series Z-wave or no z-wave).

Now, UDI has indicated that 4.9.x firmware can be migrated to the eisy, but didn't specifically comment that the 300 series Z-Wave would. You might want to open a support ticket to get confirmation that it is not possible, but for most users the assumption would be that 300 series is still not able to migrate. 

(NOTE: The wiki was updated to include ISY994 migration from 4.x firmware, but still indicated the Z-Wave needs to be 500 series: https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=Eisy:User_Guide#Preparing_for_Migration_from_ISY-994)

It depends how large your Z-wave system is as to how much work that would take. I would strongly suggest you make a text backup of your programs -- right click on "My Programs" folder and the last option should be "Copy Folder to Clipboard". Paste that into a text editor (for Windows use Notepad). Now you have ALL your programs in an "easy" to read text document. This will help you recreate any Insteon+Z-Wave programs once you reconfigure your Z-wave on the eisy (with the ZMatter dongle).

I'm not a strong Z-wave user, but always see other users suggest that you exclude z-wave devices if you're going to set them up with a new controller. So perhaps (again, depending on the size of your z-wave system), I would remove (exclude) them all from the existing ISY994 system then follow the migration steps just for the Insteon devices. You should be able to fairly easily backup and then restore the Insteon portion to the eisy. Then you could add the Z-wave support with the ZMatter dongle and even start adding Zigbee items.

How large is your total installation? It should go fairly smooth if you just focus on the Insteon side. Make sure if you're using any Network Resources that you will have to click on each of them and re-save them (that's noted in the migration instructions, but one most people overlook). 

If you're thinking you might do this in stages remember that the ISY994 will enter into "safe mode" if it's booted up and no PLM is attached. It's not advised to have multiple PLMs running (it's possible, but tricky and could cause lots of communication issues). To get around this if your ISY994 were still to manage Z-wave there is a different firmware so the ISY994 wouldn't go into "safe mode".

I'd pull the band aid off and make the move all at once. It will be growing pains for sure as the likelihood of it being "smooth" diminishes for those that don't read the directions first and just try to blow through it too quickly. Take the time to review the processes before attempting any of the steps. So you have an idea of what should happen in each step. Then make the commitment to migrate and spend the time rebuilding the Z-wave network once the Insteon system is up and functioning as expected. It's a lot harder (at least somewhat more difficult) if you're trying to attack issues in both systems at once. 

You've got this! Go for it! Good luck!

[PhanTomiZ]

1 hour ago, Geddy said:

Yes, there were several in the past. When the only way to migrate was to have ISY994 with 5.3.4 firmware (that meant it basically had to be a 500 series Z-wave or no z-wave).

Now, UDI has indicated that 4.9.x firmware can be migrated to the eisy, but didn't specifically comment that the 300 series Z-Wave would. You might want to open a support ticket to get confirmation that it is not possible, but for most users the assumption would be that 300 series is still not able to migrate. 

I will see what support has to say about the 300 series Z-Wave board.

(NOTE: The wiki was updated to include ISY994 migration from 4.x firmware, but still indicated the Z-Wave needs to be 500 series: https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=Eisy:User_Guide#Preparing_for_Migration_from_ISY-994)

It depends how large your Z-wave system is as to how much work that would take. I would strongly suggest you make a text backup of your programs -- right click on "My Programs" folder and the last option should be "Copy Folder to Clipboard". Paste that into a text editor (for Windows use Notepad). Now you have ALL your programs in an "easy" to read text document. This will help you recreate any Insteon+Z-Wave programs once you reconfigure your Z-wave on the eisy (with the ZMatter dongle).

Been doing this since 2019.  Great tool!

I'm not a strong Z-wave user, but always see other users suggest that you exclude z-wave devices if you're going to set them up with a new controller. So perhaps (again, depending on the size of your z-wave system), I would remove (exclude) them all from the existing ISY994 system then follow the migration steps just for the Insteon devices. You should be able to fairly easily backup and then restore the Insteon portion to the eisy. Then you could add the Z-wave support with the ZMatter dongle and even start adding Zigbee items.

Wow!  This is scary!  I've been tweaking things for many years now to work just right.  Food for thought.

How large is your total installation? It should go fairly smooth if you just focus on the Insteon side. Make sure if you're using any Network Resources that you will have to click on each of them and re-save them (that's noted in the migration instructions, but one most people overlook). 

Z-Wave: 17 devices (7 multi level sensors used for temperature and motion, 3 sirens for mesh, 3 door locks etc)
Insteon:  40 devices (Thermostats, motion sensors, keypads, triggerlincs, leak sensors, etc.)

No network resources, no portal, no mobile app or anything else.  Pretty much stand alone.

If you're thinking you might do this in stages remember that the ISY994 will enter into "safe mode" if it's booted up and no PLM is attached. It's not advised to have multiple PLMs running (it's possible, but tricky and could cause lots of communication issues). To get around this if your ISY994 were still to manage Z-wave there is a different firmware so the ISY994 wouldn't go into "safe mode".

I'd pull the band aid off and make the move all at once. It will be growing pains for sure as the likelihood of it being "smooth" diminishes for those that don't read the directions first and just try to blow through it too quickly. Take the time to review the processes before attempting any of the steps. So you have an idea of what should happen in each step. Then make the commitment to migrate and spend the time rebuilding the Z-wave network once the Insteon system is up and functioning as expected. It's a lot harder (at least somewhat more difficult) if you're trying to attack issues in both systems at once. 

You've got this! Go for it! Good luck!

Answers in green.

Thanks for the super fast response.  

[Geddy]

1 hour ago, PhanTomiZ said:

Z-Wave: 17 devices (7 multi level sensors used for temperature and motion, 3 sirens for mesh, 3 door locks etc)

With that it might be "simple" to just rebuild the Z-Wave network and not even think/plan/deal with migrating the Z-wave. You might want to look through the ZMatter forum area as some people have had issues with locks. 

 

1 hour ago, PhanTomiZ said:

Insteon:  40 devices (Thermostats, motion sensors, keypads, triggerlincs, leak sensors, etc.)

Things to watch out for will be the motion sensors. At least from reports of others in the forums. I'm not familiar with triggerlincs just be ready to battle with battery devices. 

 

1 hour ago, PhanTomiZ said:

Been doing this since 2019.  Great tool!

indeed! It's an awesome ability and a tip I try to always suggest because there have been a lot of people having programs not make the migration correctly and they don't get the programming correct because it was something they set up ages ago and think they did it the same, but it doesn't work as it "used to" on the ISY994. 

Good luck! 

[PhanTomiZ]

3 minutes ago, Geddy said:

indeed! It's an awesome ability and a tip I try to always suggest because there have been a lot of people having programs not make the migration correctly and they don't get the programming correct because it was something they set up ages ago and think they did it the same, but it doesn't work as it "used to" on the ISY994. 

Good luck! 

What got me started on it was seeing <Not Specified> in my programs and wondering what the heck I deleted that caused this program to have a UFO in it!  I have enough text files saved up, so when this happens, I know at least what the line was pointing to.  A little tedious, but sure does answer some questions as to what I've done in the past.

BTW, Opened a ticket and Michel responded in record speed (ongoing).  I know why this is the best piece of hardware I've ever purchased!  The team @UD for sure!

Will keep this thread updated...

[Geddy]

1 minute ago, PhanTomiZ said:

BTW, Opened a ticket and Michel responded in record speed (ongoing).  I know why this is the best piece of hardware I've ever purchased!  The team @UD for sure!

Best support in the industry! Insane how quick replies are received.

And great thought of keeping the text files to refer to when things changed. I usually only keep a couple in the cloud when I make backups. If only more users would implement that as part of their backup process it would make recreating programs when they go south a lot easier to self diagnose or help others on the forum point to a direction of enlightenment. 

 

[cosyn]

On 12/19/2023 at 1:39 PM, PhanTomiZ said:

What got me started on it was seeing <Not Specified> in my programs and wondering what the heck I deleted that caused this program to have a UFO in it!  I have enough text files saved up, so when this happens, I know at least what the line was pointing to.  A little tedious, but sure does answer some questions as to what I've done in the past.

BTW, Opened a ticket and Michel responded in record speed (ongoing).  I know why this is the best piece of hardware I've ever purchased!  The team @UD for sure!

Will keep this thread updated...

Happy holidays! I took a few days off anticipating that the eisy migration with Z-wave would be time-consuming based on others' posts. Did you hear back from Michel? Hoping there's an easier way.

[glacier991]

I am in the same boat, will follow ( and share) as this progresses.

[glacier991]

I am a loyal UDI fan, and plan to stay as I work this out.

[PhanTomiZ]

Hi again,

I too, am a loyal ISY user!  Unfortunately, I returned everything on Friday.  Wanted to get this migrated during the Xmas break, but much too much research to find out the migration process.  I have many intertwined Insteon and Z-Wave programs that it will take me more than a week to accomplish, let alone figure out. 

I think the biggest factor is that my current ISY Insteon/Z-Wave is working and has been for a long time.  Second factor is the WAF!!!!  Can't inconvenience them for too long as they've been used to an automated house.

Just going back and looking at my programs and variables is a task.  I'm in awe, that I was even able to come up with some of them.  Just trying to follow some of them is a frustrating and tedious.

I think I've come to realize that it was fun 10 years now .  What will happen when the ISY completely fails?  I'll be selling all my devices and going back to the dark ages

Thanks to all for the encouragement and the responses.

PhanTomiZ  

[glacier991]

I fully understand. In my case I set up my ISY about 5 years ago and that was part of a remodel of a new house. I got the essentials working and turned my attention elsewhere.

New times and a small investment time wise in what I have. Decided to create an entirely new build.

My system will continue to be an X-10 (pro where available) Insteon, z-wave and a possible new zigbee addition.

I have an XTB-IIr I never installed and will be adding that now too.

 

two sides of the same coin.

Edited January 10 by glacier991