SMorgan Posted December 26, 2023 Posted December 26, 2023 Recently this started occurring although infrequently, where the garage door will open without any known input. The garage door opener is equipped with the Insteon I/O Module (aka IOLinc) 2450 for sense and open/close functions. 18-year-old Genie GDO with Intellicode. My eISY programs related to the garage door consist of SMS open/close event notifications. Troubleshooting so far consisted of factory resetting the GDO to remove all stored remotes, after which the problem again occurred. To make it more interesting I also have an Insteon Siren 2868-222 plugged in on the second floor where at some point I had it integrated with a Z-wave Fortrezz IO Interface module to chime upstairs if someone rang the doorbell. The eISY program at the time made use of the chime sound and not the siren sound. The siren has remained plugged in but the Fortrezz module is not connected to the doorbell transformer. Now, a couple of times that the GDO has opened on its own, the Insteon Siren has also simultaneously sounded the burglar alarm (not the innocuous chime). Has anyone had a similar experience? The eISY log was inconclusive, and when I checked the event viewer, the events at the specific time had aged out, so no help there.
Techman Posted December 26, 2023 Posted December 26, 2023 If you don't see a log entry for the IOLinc and Siren being activated at the time the garage door opened then take a look at this link: INSTEON Random All On Events - Universal Devices, Inc. Wiki (universal-devices.com)
IndyMike Posted December 26, 2023 Posted December 26, 2023 (edited) I am assuming that your Siren and GDO are not members of any scenes or programs. You can check scenes by looking at the device in the admin console and looking at the membership tree to the right. You can check program membership by right clicking on any program and selecting "find/replace". Search for your I/O linc and you will be able to cycle through all the programs that it is used in. I'm going to out on a limb and assume that you've already checked this. While it's possible that you encountered an electrical "even" that triggered the 2450, it's highly unlikely that the event would trigger the second floor 2868 at the same time (multiple times). The other possibility would be a "all on event". This purportedly involves a communication collision the generate a "all-on" (or all off) command to all Insteon devices. All affected devices activate. I say affected because Smartlabs has removed the command from more recent modules. It is possible that your 2450 and 2868 were produced prior to Smartlabs removing the command. Please post your device version, firmware and date code Edited December 26, 2023 by IndyMike
SMorgan Posted December 26, 2023 Author Posted December 26, 2023 Thanks for the replies. The devices aren't members of any scenes. Siren is v.46 IOLinc is v.41 Sorry I don't have physical access to the devices at the moment to provide the other requested information. In the meantime I'll look into the circumstances that generate Random All On events
Techman Posted December 26, 2023 Posted December 26, 2023 Random "all on" events won't show up in the event log. If you don't see the garage open event in your log then focus on both the "all on" trouble shooting or the possibility of a failing insteon device somewhere in your network which can create false Insteon signals.
IndyMike Posted December 26, 2023 Posted December 26, 2023 Based on my rather limited testing, your IOlinc (V.41) would be susceptible and your Siren (V.46) would not be. My testing of devices in my home is located here : https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/41651-all-on-removed-in-what-firmware-version-of-switchlinc-dimmers/?do=findComment&comment=369748 You could also try executing a "all-on" command from the Eisy. Not sure if it's still available in the Eisy. It's located at the bottom of the "My-Lighting" screen on the ISY994. Best to try this when family members are not around
SMorgan Posted December 30, 2023 Author Posted December 30, 2023 Thanks again for all the replies. I returned home and had two Insteon Motion Sensor II that were dead, which were working when we left last week. So it could have been these low battery devices creating that All On scenario. I do not have the All On option in the eISY interface. I plan to hard-wire the 5v USB power for the motion sensors that I can.
Solution Techman Posted December 30, 2023 Solution Posted December 30, 2023 It was most likely the low battery in your motion sensors that caused devices to turn on. I've had that happen..
paulbates Posted December 30, 2023 Posted December 30, 2023 I'm about to install an MS in my garage. Does anyone know if the small block iPhone charger will power it s. It's 5 watts. The manual is vague about the actual power requirement - 5 volt micro USB I'm going to try it but wondering if anyone has before, since I have a number of these around.. normally "unglowing" led Christmas lights.
Techman Posted December 30, 2023 Posted December 30, 2023 It should work, the MS draws very little current 1
paulbates Posted December 30, 2023 Posted December 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, Techman said: It should work, the MS draws very little current Thanks Techman, and I had your same experience at my last house, outside MS1's, where phantom Insteon "Ons" happened when the battery died.
Brian H Posted December 30, 2023 Posted December 30, 2023 Micro USB is what the manual said for the the 5V supply cable end. One thing I have seen is to get the cover back on. The sensor end has to be a 90 degree connector. I have seen two forms of 90 degree connectors. One cable exits down the other up. Don't remember which fit better. 2
SMorgan Posted December 31, 2023 Author Posted December 31, 2023 (edited) Here's a cable I've purchased before and verified correct angle of the micro USB end: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CF1ZBRF1 Edited December 31, 2023 by SMorgan 2
paulbates Posted December 31, 2023 Posted December 31, 2023 17 minutes ago, SMorgan said: Here's a cable I've purchased before and verified correct angle of the micro USB end: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CF1ZBRF1 Thank you.. 10' is what I'm going to need for this installation as well 2
NLunow Posted January 23 Posted January 23 I bought them from Insteon where I still/again buy my hardware. Never had to worry about batteries again.
kzboray Posted January 23 Posted January 23 @SMorgan I have a client that has a Insteon only installation working first on an ISY994i and now a Polisy. After the initial install in 2016 there were ZERO events that couldn't be explained. Recently in the last three months they have had three events that UD and the community would call ALL ON events. This makes little sense to me since they have had the same programming in place with minor changes for years and the same Insteon devices. The other piece of this puzzle that makes little sense to me is that the consensus seems to be to remove devices from any scenes and any programs to avoid possible ALL ON events. If they can't be in a scene or part of a program what is the use of having smart devices in the home? In each case the logs show that the SYSTEM was responsible for the device being activated. I'm not convinced this is the classic ALL ON event that used to plague the Insteon brand. It is also impossible to get any real information on what devices have the ALL ON FW. I have reached out to the community here and also Insteon directly. Insteon simply ignored my emails which asked for a list of FW versions that were susceptible to the ALL ON command or a way to check devices myself. Unfortunately I have also learned that all past and present PLM's still have the ALL ON command set potentially making this entire venture of tracking down which individual devices with ALL ON supported in FW mote. In my clients case the one common denominator has been the GDO controlled by a 74551. It has activated three times now in the last three months. Once by itself, and the other two times in combination with first 4 other devices, and the second time with two other devices. Unfortunately the GDO is part of a scene with eight (8) button switches and several 2477s's and integrated into the ELK alarm system for FOB control as well. All of this making it impossible to decouple from the scene or programs. Short of catching one of these events live on the event viewer I don't know how to give adequate feedback on the root cause. If it happens again I am going to put the ISY994i back in place which ran perfectly for almost 6 years without incident. Unfortunately this will mean a dramatic reduction in integration for the client as they have several system using PG3x. But I can't have their fire-pit coming on in the middle of the night again. The last time this happened the day before the ALL ON event the fire-pit had been covered with plywood for protection during a small construction project. If the fire-pit had come on even one day before there would have been a fire that could have spread to who knows where. Since this happened at 3am no one would have known until the fire alarm went off.
dbwarner5 Posted January 23 Posted January 23 @kzboray Feel your pain and frustration. I have one light in our kitchen that will just come on for no reason. Cant even tie it to any other event. It's random both in its frequency of occurrence and the time of day. I have just learned to live with it. I have reset the switch to factory, pulled it out of scenes, put it back into scenes etc and it has lessened the frequency but it still happens on occasion. There are several other lights that will very infrequently come on as well. One set is a threeway in a shed. These switches are not part of any scene nor part of any program, and yet they will strangely be on in the middle of the night, usually about once every 2-3 months. Go figure. For the fire pit, I have a gas fireplace that in the past has come on once or twice, so I now have a cuttoff switch that I manually flip so when I am away or its summer time, there is NO way insteon can turn it on. It's in our bedroom. I also monitor the temp in the room so that if it gets too hot it will alert me to check on the fireplace. Hasn't come on though in a long time so that gremlin went away.
paulbates Posted January 23 Posted January 23 While I've not had an "all on" event, I took the challenge too see what would happen based on another thread here.. and pressed the iox "All on" button on the main view. What I observed that responded, all recent model micro dimmer alarm module 2450 / io module What did not respond: I3 paddles and outlet My installation is eisy/iox and everything is new as of last October. The light controlled by the micro dimmer started occasionally coming on randomly, every few days. I first thought it was the i3 paddle that controlled it as it always worked properly from eisy. Brightening/dimming with the i3 paddle occasionally had jumps and flickers, where 2 lights of the same brand/type connected to the i3 paddles load did not. Unrelated to this happening, I was given the parts list for the guts of the old signal linc on the Insteon forum, got them from mouser and installed. It was a few days before I noticed: that was the end of the random ons from that one micro dimmer' that was early December. The dimming isn't as exact as the load on the i3, but nobody but me would notice.
dbwarner5 Posted January 23 Posted January 23 27 minutes ago, paulbates said: My installation is eisy/iox and everything is new as of last October. The light controlled by the micro dimmer started occasionally coming on randomly, every few days. Unrelated to this happening, I was given the parts list for the guts of the old signal linc on the Insteon forum, got them from mouser and installed. It was a few days before I noticed: that was the end of the random ons from that one micro dimmer' that was early December. The dimming isn't as exact as the load on the i3, but nobody but me would notice. Funny you mention this.. my light that mysteriously comes on frequently is also a micro dimmer. Not sure what you mean by the old signal line. Can you expand? thanks.
paulbates Posted January 23 Posted January 23 (edited) Signal linc 2406h. It's a hard wired insteon phase coupler https://forum.insteon.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/118349-does-a-compatible-phase-coupler-still-exist Edited January 24 by paulbates
dbwarner5 Posted January 23 Posted January 23 Hmm.. I have two breaker boxes, so in theory, four legs to cover. My PLM is on a plug that is hardwired, 4' away to one leg on one breaker box. With ~250 insteon devices with 98% of them dual bridge I would be surprised if that is the issue. However, there is an ice maker nearby this micro dimmer and could possibly be causing some weird interference. I have an old Range Extender, which is also a bridge. I will play around with it, moving it around to see if I can bridge better and eliminate the gremlin. Thanks!
kzboray Posted January 24 Posted January 24 @paulbates I had no idea the "ALL ON" button in AC would activate the ALL ON bit in FW. I always thought it would just send an ON to all devices. I had never tried it until your post. Thank you! Using the "ALL ON" button in AC produced the following results in my home. I'll have to test at my clients...all of them now 8( Micro module 2443-222 FW v.48 turned on. PG3x NS controlling Harmony Hub turned on to last used state. PG3x NS controlling Lifx lights in all locations turned on to last used state I/OLinc 2450 v 4.1 controlling a GDO opened the garage door. I have two new I/O linc modules that are FW version .49 to test with but they won't add to the system. I have opened a ticket to get that resolved. If I find they ignore the ALL ON I will update this post. It's interesting that the Harmony Hub and LifX NS's also responded to the ALL ON button press. I don't believe this is a desirable feature and will let @Jimbo.Automates and @Michel Kohanim / xKing know. 2
kzboray Posted January 24 Posted January 24 (edited) Just a quick update. Micro Module 2443-222 v.49 also responds to an ALL ON command. EDIT: I also left a note on the Insteon forums about this and I hope they remove the ALL ON from FW soon. Edited January 24 by kzboray 2
Brian H Posted January 24 Posted January 24 Thank you for the updates on the All On commands. Still being in some modules. I saw your posts on the Insteon Forums. Lets hope they will correct the removal of that command. I suspect some information was carried over from the old management and just make more with the same firmware.
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