alixer Posted April 18 Posted April 18 I am running IoX on a Polisy with version 5.8.0 I am using Insteon devices that were installed 6-8 years ago if I remember correctly. For a long time I had programs that looked like this: If MasterBed is switched Fast Off Then Set MasterBed Off Set MasterHall Off Set MasterBath Off I had lots of programs like this in various parts of the house. They all used to work great but now they do not. None of them work. A couple of questions: 1) Can I accomplish this same thing in a scene? I couldn't figure out how to make the trigger 'Fast Off' for a scene? 2) How can I diagnose my problem? When I open the Event Viewer and select Level "Device Communication events" and then I go to the switch on my wall and press it I do not see an event in the Event Viewer. If I open the Log from Tools > Log I do not see any device communication in the log either. As far as I know this is the only problem I have in my system. There are probably 50+ Insteon devices with dozens of scenes and programs. Everything works fine except for programs triggered through Fast On/Off commands.
Javi Posted April 18 Posted April 18 Try manually running "Then" with the lights on, do the lights turn off If no: Save the program and try again If yes: Manually trigger the switch, did the programs last runtime change?
paulbates Posted April 18 Posted April 18 (edited) 2 other things... Did you replace your PLM when upgrading to eisy? Right-click on the MasterBed device from the admin console/iox and pick restore device and re-test the program You can add those devices to a scene with master bed as the controller. They'll all switch off at the same time and there will be less Insteon traffic. The scene becomes a device that you can turn on and off with the program Edited April 18 by paulbates
alixer Posted April 18 Author Posted April 18 Yes the "Then" portion runs fine when run from the admin console. No the last runtime does not change. It feels like the Fast On/Off command never gets to the PLM but how do I diagnose?
alixer Posted April 18 Author Posted April 18 2 minutes ago, paulbates said: 2 other things... Did you replace your PLM when upgrading to eisy? Right-click on the MasterBed device from the admin console/iox and pick restore device and re-test the program You can add those devices to a scene with master bed as the controller. They'll all switch off at the same time and there will be less Insteon traffic. The scene becomes a device that you can turn on and off with the program Yes I updated my PLM. I tried restore many times. No effect. I even did a factory reset on the MasterBed device. The problem is I don't want a basic scene where all those lights go on/off when I turn on my bedroom lights. I have 4 lights in my master bedroom and I want to be able to turn them all off with a double press of the bedroom switch. But I certainly don't want the bathroom to turn on when I turn my bedroom on. So is there a way for a scene to ONLY respond to the Fast Off command? I used to achieve this with the programs.
DennisC Posted April 18 Posted April 18 10 minutes ago, alixer said: even did a factory reset on the MasterBed device Did you do a restore device after resetting this device?
Techman Posted April 18 Posted April 18 @alixer If the THEN clause works correctly in your fast off program then the problem is most likely the timing of your double off clicks. Try doing a faster double click.
paulbates Posted April 18 Posted April 18 It sounds to me like the PLM is not recognizing the fast off. Since you changed the PLM recently, that change is still a likely suspect. Under tools/diagnostics; open the event viewer. Set it to level 3. Double click the masterbed off (fast off). Copy the results from the event view and past here
alixer Posted April 18 Author Posted April 18 19 minutes ago, paulbates said: It sounds to me like the PLM is not recognizing the fast off. Since you changed the PLM recently, that change is still a likely suspect. Under tools/diagnostics; open the event viewer. Set it to level 3. Double click the masterbed off (fast off). Copy the results from the event view and past here I agree. And that is my current problem, nothing shows in the Event Viewer when manually operating devices. Do you have Insteon devices? Can you confirm that manual operation of a device will fire an event in the Event Viewer?
alixer Posted April 18 Author Posted April 18 34 minutes ago, Techman said: @alixer If the THEN clause works correctly in your fast off program then the problem is most likely the timing of your double off clicks. Try doing a faster double click. I've been using the Fast On/Off commands for 6-8 years so I do have a good feel for how fast to click it. Also, if it were the speed of my double click then a simple test would be to switch the "Fast Off" command to "Off" in my program and things would work. I tried this and it did not help.
paulbates Posted April 18 Posted April 18 1 hour ago, alixer said: Do you have Insteon devices? Can you confirm that manual operation of a device will fire an event in the Event Viewer? Yes, which is why I suggested it. If the event view isn't seeing it, then the device isn't properly updated to the new plm
alixer Posted April 18 Author Posted April 18 36 minutes ago, paulbates said: Yes, which is why I suggested it. If the event view isn't seeing it, then the device isn't properly updated to the new plm That is so strange. I would think other things would not work if this were the case. Like the scenes work fine, other programs work fine, everything works fine except fast on/off. I tried restore and factory reset. Neither worked. I'll try just removing the device and re-adding it. Any other ideas other than restoring the device and plm which I have tried both many times?
alixer Posted April 19 Author Posted April 19 @paulbates If I look at the Device Link table for one of the devices that is not working ("not working" meaning Fast On/Off programs not running, and no event showing in Event Viewer BUT scene works fine), I can see my new PLM as the very first address in the link table and there are no references to the old PLM. Doesn't that mean it is properly linked to my PLM?
paulbates Posted April 19 Posted April 19 By scenes working, do you mean The device activates other insteon devices?... Or.. The device is activated by scenes from the isy? Or both? Posting the event viewer output will help. There are others here better at interpreting that better than me... But without seeing it, this can't progress Turn in the event viewer, set to level three and capture: Single click Double click (fast on) What you do when you say "scenes work" Post that here This thread has revealed that you've tried the normal diagnostics. If the device is older, it's possible that it's failed. I've had older insteon devices that would function as programmed, but then "lose it" when needing to reprogram them, like a new plm or adding a scene member.
alixer Posted April 19 Author Posted April 19 30 minutes ago, paulbates said: By scenes working, do you mean The device activates other insteon devices?... Or.. The device is activated by scenes from the isy? Or both? Both things work. I can manually press the device and it activates other insteon devices. I can also use the admin console of the isy, select the scene and select "On" and the scene operates as expected. 35 minutes ago, paulbates said: Turn in the event viewer, set to level three and capture: Single click Double click (fast on) What you do when you say "scenes work" If I manually press the device nothing is shown in the Event Viewer. If I use the admin consol and select the device and select "On" I can see events. The 2 attached screenshots are from sending the "On" command and "Fast On" command respectively from the isy admin console. Manual clicks of the device send nothing to the Event Viewer so nothing attached for that.
paulbates Posted April 19 Posted April 19 What is the device, how old is it? Did you get errors when deleting, factory resetting and re adding to the isy?
Solution alixer Posted April 19 Author Solution Posted April 19 @paulbates OK so I just kind of accidentally discovered a solution and I'm not sure why it works. I removed the 3 devices I was testing with from the scenes they were in and then re-added them to the scenes. Suddenly the Fast On/Off commands worked and I can see manual clicks in the Event Viewer. It's odd that this worked but doing a "Restore Device" did not work. Also the factory reset of the device did not work. So I went to test this fix on another device in which the Fast Off comnand was not working. This time I only removed the device from the scene in which it was the controller. This was enough to fix my problem. Thanks for taking the time to work with me. 2
Techman Posted April 19 Posted April 19 @alixer To verify that all the devices in a scene are properly responding, Right click on the scene, click on diagnostics, scene test.
alixer Posted April 19 Author Posted April 19 Just one more update incase anyone else ever runs into this issue. I had another pair of Insteon switches that I could not get the Fast On/Off to trigger a program just as described in the original post. However these devices were not controllers of any scenes, only responders in scenes. I tried removing the devices from all of the scenes they were in and then re-adding them. This did not fix the Fast On/Off problem. Finally I decided to just create a temporary scene and add both devices to that scene as Controllers. I think removed them and deleted the scene. This fixed my problem.
IndyMike Posted April 20 Posted April 20 (edited) 21 hours ago, alixer said: @paulbates If I look at the Device Link table for one of the devices that is not working ("not working" meaning Fast On/Off programs not running, and no event showing in Event Viewer BUT scene works fine), I can see my new PLM as the very first address in the link table and there are no references to the old PLM. Doesn't that mean it is properly linked to my PLM? @alixer - unfortunately this does this does not mean that the device is properly linked as a "scene controller" for the PLM. The 1st record in the Device link table is the Device Responder Link from the PLM. In my screenshot below, the "A2 00" indicates that my on/off module is a responder to group 00 (my plm). The second record is tagged "E2 01". This is telling my On/Off module it is a controller of group 01 and my PLM is a member. When you execute a "ON", or "Fast ON" your device communicates this to devices listed as being in Group 1 (00.00.01) as shown in the event log below. There is also a third component - the PLM. The PLM also needs controller and responder records for your devices. The PLM records for my ON/OFF Module are shown in the table below. I have a PLM responder record (A2) for device 54.A1.F5 (my On/Off module). ad fl gr id data 194 E2 0 54A1F5 23748 195 A2 1 54A1F5 23748 So where's the problem? Since you've already done link table comparisons and restores, the device and the ISY should agree. That leaves the PLM. If the device responder link does not exist in your PLM, you will not see transmissions from that device. In the past, this would occur when a user had too many PLM links (over 1023). The PLM would essentially write links that could not be accessed and stop listening to some devices. You may want to check how many PLM records you have. You'll need to disable programs and perform the test during a quiet time to prevent interrupts. In your case I would guess that you have an incomplete migration. Not all the link records were transferred to the PLM. Your process of including a device as a scene controller, then deleting the scene, is restoring the responder link in the PLM. Not sure whether it's worth doing a PLM Restore to write all the links. If you're only having problems with a couple devices, your workaround may suffice. Edited April 20 by IndyMike
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