Last five or six switches not updating in ISY

[timlacey]

I have added 6 devices this week (I was running 2.7.13 firmware).

 

I am able to send them commands, and I am able to set up scenes that they can work properly as controllers and/or responders. So I assumed that they were fully functional, until today. . . .

 

I discovered today that the ISY is not seeing local switch commands. I can query them just fine, but no local presses are registering.

 

This is only happening for the last 7 devices I've added (six were recently added and the other was added a few months ago). I just noticed this when I was creating a program to respond to a fast on by one of the new switches.

 

Adding an AccessPoint on the local circuit does not make a difference.

 

Also, when I do a scene test for a scene containing all my downstairs switches, all but the latest 7 shows up as successful. The latest 7 are FAILED.

 

I am now running 2.7.15 firmware with no improvement.

 

i have 416 links in my 2412S v63 PLM - I can't seem to find the addresses of my new devices in the PLM links list, and I assume they'd be at the end of the list?

 

Any suggestions?

 

Thanks,

 

Tim

[Brian H]

The older 2412S PLMs had a 417 Link Database. That could be the problem.

 

The fact that one of the missing devices is an older addition. Could be it was overwritten by a newer addition.

 

I looked to see if I could find the revision where it was updated to the 2000+ link database size but so far have not found it.

I am sure the folks at UDI will have that information for you.

[timlacey]

Yes, UDI confirmed that v63 is the version immediately prior to the memory size upgrade. So I am ordering a 2413U with the ISY power supply today!

[Brian H]

Bummer.

Thanks for giving us the data on where the larger Link Database was cut in.

I will write it down this time.

[IndyMike]

Yes, UDI confirmed that v63 is the version immediately prior to the memory size upgrade. So I am ordering a 2413U with the ISY power supply today!

 

Tim - first and foremost - I hope your post of the "2413U" was a typo. That's a USB version of the PLM. I'm reasonably sure that the ISY requires a serial (2413S) interface.

 

Moving on - the fact that the V.63 is a "limited" link PLM is a big ouch. I thought that the V63 had been confirmed as having the 2000 link database. As it turns out, I've been straddling the 417 line for years now.

 

What is the current wisdom on the 2413S vs the 2412S? Have there been any developments in the negotiations between SH and Universal Devices on the all-in-one plm/isy?

[timlacey]

Yes, fortunately I ordered the 2413S, not the USB version.

 

I was hoping also to find out the latest wisdom of the 2412S vs. 2413S. In theory, the 2413S is faster, but early reports said it was slower to communicate with the ISY. A 1083 or so link limit will work fine for me - apparently this is fewer than the most recent 2412S had. The built-in access point is nice, but the need for a separate power supply and no pass-through outlet is not so nice.

 

I suspect that the 2413S will be a nice improvement for me. UDI was sure quick to recommend it as a solution, as if there is no question that it will be an improvement. it should certainly solve my 417 link problem.

[IndyMike]

Hi Tim,

 

Glad to hear that you ordered the serial version. If the UDI team has recommended it as the best solution for your current needs, I have no doubt that it will fit the bill.

 

My needs may be a bit different. I can easily scale down from my current 450 links by eliminating test scenes. I will need room for expansion, but the need is not immediate. I know that the "original" expanded 2412S was not able to manage anywhere near it's advertised 2000 links. I have not kept up with recent versions (didn't feel the need). At the same time, I don't place a high value on the RF capability of the 2413S (I would actually choose to avoid it).

 

So, the question remains - given that I do not have a pressing time constraint, what are the trades between the various PLM versions?

 

IM

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello IM,

 

I am afraid you do not really have a choice since 2412S is on back order till the end of July.

 

2413S has been quite reliable. I have two of them here which I stress test almost daily ... they have been fine. Actually, in some respects (especially communications with RF devices) they perform a little better than 2412S.

 

The only caveat is if you have V1 thermostat dongles. If you do, 2413S is going to hang your thermostats.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[jerlands]

Hello IM,

 

I am afraid you do not really have a choice since 2412S is on back order till the end of July.

 

 

If you really want it you can find the 2412S available at other outlets just by googling.

 

 

Jon

[IndyMike]

Michel and Jon,

 

Thank you for the replies. I'm glad to hear that the 2413 has been reliable with the ISY. It's nice to have options. After seeing Jon's post, I did find the 2412s at a number of other vendors.

 

At this point I'm a bit hesitant to switch out what has been a very good horse. My V.63 has not hiccuped since it was installed. I've been doing a bit of playing and have verified that I have correct links listed well above the 417 waterline. I've added devices one at a time to test this and have verified local press recognition.

 

Is it possible that the V.63 was a mixed version. Mine is a Rev 2.75 with a date code of 0748. I have slimmed down the number of links from what I had in the past (nearing 700 back then). At this point, I'm not ready to pronounce this unit as "limited".

 

On a separate note, would it be possible for the ISY to display (and count) the number of links that it believes the PLM should have? Since the ISY can perform a restore modem, this information must be available.

 

Currently the only way that I can reliably display the PLM links is to put it on a double filtered strip and disconnect my ELK lan. Anything less causes the PLM to be interrupted and produces an erroneous link count.

 

Placing the PLM on the filtered strip causes the ISY to poll (and fail) all of my installed devices when it initializes. This is a rather lengthy process for a PLM link check. A quick check of the links in the ISY would be very nice.

 

Another nice feature would be the ability to compare links between the PLM and the ISY (similar to the device compare links). This would allow users to quickly determine whether things were out of sequence between the two devices.

 

IM

[Brian H]

Simplehomenet is making their 2412S replacement on the base PLM and adding their own daughter card {I think as it can also be RS485 as an option}. Verified has large link database and FW85 or 90. Also has the raw +12 volts for their EZIO8SA and most likely an ISY99i.

http://www.simplehomenet.com/proddetail.asp?prod=2412PS

[IndyMike]

Hi Brian,

 

Thanks for the information - yet another option. This must be a relatively new device. There isn't much documentation on the website.

 

Is the daughter board just for the RS485 option, or are there "other" capabilities?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello IndyMike,

 

Well, figuring out the supported number of links and where the memory starts has become quite hot lately especially to support EZIOxxx devices. We just got an algorithm from SH which should reliably let us know the capacity and the starting address. Once this is done for EZ devices, then we can use it to display PLM capabilities as well.

 

If you are going to get a new PLM, please consider 2413S especially if you plan on having thermostats and more RF devices.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Brian H]

As you found out. Very little data yet.

I think I would see how things pan out. The RS485 signals? No data yet on if it maybe on other pins or replacing the RS232 ones.

 

I just got a 2413S w/power supply combination and after letting it cook for a few days. I will be trying it with my ISY-99i.

 

It is very light compared to the older 2412S as the whole things is completely new. Like what looks like a switching power supply {photos from the FCC web site} and no big power transformer like the 2412S/U and a few other modules with the same basic chassis. As a test I substituted the 2413S for one of my Access Points. It could not pass the phase test where the Access Point passed. Maybe the orientation of the antennas in the 2413S is different.

[timlacey]

I have now installed my new 2413S. Instead of 416 links, the count now shows 979 links.

 

So perhaps my system will perform better now, since clearly it is more thoroughly linked than before.

 

I'm puzzled how the number could have changed by so much, and now I worry about the limit of the new PLM which is around 1080 links. My system is mostly complete, but I was planning to add a thermostat at some point, a few more motion sensors, and a couple more IOLincs.

 

I currently have 98 Insteon devices total. 6 of those are 8 button keypad links. I have 4 IoLincs, 6 motion sensors, and then the rest are switches and appliance/outlet/lamplincs. Is the number of links about right?

 

I have to say that I'm impressed with how well the RESTORE PLM process worked. Very nice. My only problem was the wireless RF devices. I just unselected "automatically update RF devices", and then I did them manually one by one afterwards. I prefer it that way, anyway.

 

Thanks for all the help here!

 

Tim

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Tim,

 

The link count seems right if and only if you have many large scenes. Based on the total number of your devices (and their variety), I would assume that 200 links are use right off the bat. so, another 700 or so would basically mean that you have 700 different scene/device combination. This is certainly possible if you have an All On (200) and All Off (another 200) and in short very large scenes.

 

What I recommend is to find the scenes that have the same devices therein and merge them. This way you will reduce the number of links.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Brian H]

The old PLM had a 417 link database. As you added more links you overwrote an old one as another was added.

 

The new 2413S and its 1023 link database is now holding the 979 links you really had.

[IndyMike]

Hi Michel,

 

The SH algorithm certainly sounds like great news. Hopefully this will "lighten the load" on the reverse engineering you've likely been doing to date.

 

For the moment I'm still evaluating my 2412S. I am not dissatisfied with it's performance, and have a mental problem with trading off what has been a good horse.

 

IM

 

Hello IndyMike,

 

Well, figuring out the supported number of links and where the memory starts has become quite hot lately especially to support EZIOxxx devices. We just got an algorithm from SH which should reliably let us know the capacity and the starting address. Once this is done for EZ devices, then we can use it to display PLM capabilities as well.

 

If you are going to get a new PLM, please consider 2413S especially if you plan on having thermostats and more RF devices.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Brian H]

Hi Brian,

 

Thanks for the information - yet another option. This must be a relatively new device. There isn't much documentation on the website.

 

Is the daughter board just for the RS485 option, or are there "other" capabilities?

 

The RS485 option uses different pins than the serial ones. They did use one of the pins that is TTL on a 2412S

http://www.simplehomenet.com/Downloads/ ... -Start.pdf