IoX Log Showing Insteon Dimmer Module Constantly Repeating On Off

[gregkinney]

I was checking my log this morning to see what time a certain light turned on when I saw this. 'Izzy Bedside Lamps' is an Insteon dimmer module 2457D2. As you can see, it repeatedly is showing the status alternating betweeen 'Off' and '100%'. It does this for many hours then stops, then starts back up the next day. The time that it starts and stops is not the same each day. The actual state of the device during these times is 'Off'.

I searched my programs and confirmed that it is not involved in any programs.

I was trying to decide between factory resetting it or simply replacing it (I have spares sitting in the closet) but figured I would ask here first if anyone has had this experience before.

 

Rooms / Izzy / Izzy Bedside Lamps	Status	100%	Fri 2024/08/09 05:19:11 AM	System	Unknown
Rooms / Izzy / Izzy Bedside Lamps	Status	Off	Fri 2024/08/09 05:19:12 AM	System	Unknown
Rooms / Izzy / Izzy Bedside Lamps	Status	100%	Fri 2024/08/09 05:19:15 AM	System	Unknown
Rooms / Izzy / Izzy Bedside Lamps	Status	Off	Fri 2024/08/09 05:19:16 AM	System	Unknown
Rooms / Izzy / Izzy Bedside Lamps	Status	100%	Fri 2024/08/09 05:19:17 AM	System	Unknown
Rooms / Izzy / Izzy Bedside Lamps	Status	Off	Fri 2024/08/09 05:19:18 AM	System	Unknown
Rooms / Izzy / Izzy Bedside Lamps	Status	100%	Fri 2024/08/09 05:19:19 AM	System	Unknown
Rooms / Izzy / Izzy Bedside Lamps	Status	Off	Fri 2024/08/09 05:19:23 AM	System	Unknown
Rooms / Izzy / Izzy Bedside Lamps	Status	100%	Fri 2024/08/09 05:19:24 AM	System	Unknown
Rooms / Izzy / Izzy Bedside Lamps	Status	Off	Fri 2024/08/09 05:19:25 AM	System	Unknown
Rooms / Izzy / Izzy Bedside Lamps	Status	100%	Fri 2024/08/09 05:19:26 AM	System	Unknown
Rooms / Izzy / Izzy Bedside Lamps	Status	Off	Fri 2024/08/09 05:19:27 AM	System	Unknown

 

Edited August 10 by gregkinney

[IndyMike]

@gregkinney,  I've had similar issues using dimmer modules (LampLincs) with dimmable LED bulbs.  In my opinion, the LL's can get confused by varying powerline/load conditions and turn on/off EVEN WITH LOAD SENSING DISABLED.

If you were to look at the event viewer you would likely see the LL activating itself and informing the PLM similar to the following.  The "02 50" indicates that the device is communicating with the PLM.  The 54.A1.F5 is the LL address.  The 53.BC.3A is my plm address.

Sat 08/10/2024 09:40:06 AM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 54.A1.F5 53.BC.3A 40 11 01 LTONRR (01) Sat 08/10/2024 09:43:39 AM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 54.A1.F5 53.BC.3A 40 13 01 LTOFFRR(01) You can try a factory reset to see if it helps.  If you want to diagnose the problem you could switch off the lamp or remove the bulb.  If the problem goes away, it's a load interaction problem. You can try different dimmer modules, but I have not had much luck.  Changing to a higher load may help.  I have had good luck with relay Lamp modules.  They don't appear to get fooled in to activating due to changing Line/Load conditions.

 

[paulbates]

Unusual symptoms, but a factory reset and restore is easy to do and should be eliminated as a possible cause

[gregkinney]

@IndyMike I went to check what type of bulbs were installed and had forgotten - we removed the two lamps a couple weeks ago so there was only an extension cord plugged in with nothing plugged in to the extension cord. We will likely add the lamps back in the future so I want to keep the module in place. I'll try @paulbates suggestion and factory reset and go from there.

[gregkinney]

I did a factory reset and still had the same behavior with the logs showing on and off repeatedly. Next, I replaced the dimmer module and still have the same behavior. I'm mind blown. My next step is to unplug the empty extension cord and see what happens, then the step after that would be changing the outlet it is plugged in to. Will report back. Open to any other suggestions.

[paulbates]

A couple of thoughts.

1. I'm guessing you did a factory reset and a restore device. Try just factory resetting it, watch and see what happens.
    
2. If it's the bulb, I've solved a "kind of" related problem, the "Led Christmas light glow" to deal with the residual voltage from lamp modules.
   
   What I did was plug a low voltage device, an old phone charger, at the end of the string. I don't understand the electrical principles involved and I could be off base, but it has worked me on LED strings. Plug one into the extension cord behind the lamp module and watch the logs

[IndyMike]

21 hours ago, gregkinney said:

I did a factory reset and still had the same behavior with the logs showing on and off repeatedly. Next, I replaced the dimmer module and still have the same behavior. I'm mind blown. My next step is to unplug the empty extension cord and see what happens, then the step after that would be changing the outlet it is plugged in to. Will report back. Open to any other suggestions.

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that you have an EMPTY extension cord plugged into the LampLinc.  It's possible that the extension cord presents enough of a capacitive load that it's confusing the LL.  I'd call that a bad extension cord. 

Can you describe the cord (2 wire, 3 wire, length, AWG)?  I'd like to run some tests - never tried this previously.

[Brian H]

Especially if the load sensing feature is on.

Edited August 15 by Brian H

[gregkinney]

It was the extension cord that caused the issue. I unplugged it and the repeating log entries have not happened since.

Correct, it was an empty extension cord plugged into the lamplinc. It is a 2 wire, 10ft, not sure of gauge. It is on the thin side. 

[BitSmith]

Does it have built-in surge protection?

[IndyMike]

15 minutes ago, gregkinney said:

It was the extension cord that caused the issue. I unplugged it and the repeating log entries have not happened since.

Correct, it was an empty extension cord plugged into the lamplinc. It is a 2 wire, 10ft, not sure of gauge. It is on the thin side. 

Thanks, I'll set up a test rig.  I'm curious if this was the same thing that I had blamed on low wattage dimmable LED's.

I'm assuming "lamp cord" the the AWG.  My LampLinc is pretty old - V.3B/ R1.5 Date Code 0211.

[BitSmith]

If it's power strip, it most likely has a MOV (and a label that includes text to indicate surge suppression).  The most common is called a metal oxide varistor (MOV).  They typically look like a disc capacitor.

 

The MOVs are placed inside the surge protector to "absorb" any excess voltage and then act as a "shunt" resistor to divert the excess current to the ground.  You already knew that <grin>.

 

If it's a simple extension cord, I'm befuddled!

 

[gregkinney]

Simple extension cord!

[Brian H]

I have some power strips that also have a AC rated Capacitor across the line and load. They work good to remove power line noise but also absorb Insteon and X10 power line commands.

That extension cord. Looks like it has no signal conditioning at all.

Turning off load sensing may show something. Capacity of the two conductors or noise absorbed by the coiled cord. Maybe but maybe hard to pin down.

[BitSmith]

Wow, Greg, that’s downright crazy! Can you hang a scope on it?

[gregkinney]

What does "hang a scope" mean? 

[BitSmith]

Allows us to see electronically what (if anything) is happening in the wires.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscilloscope

[gregkinney]

I don't have one of those but I do have one of these. Shows watts/amps/volts. Is that helpful?

[BitSmith]

Yes, but most likely not here. I’d be seriously surprised if there was a current draw. That would definitely indicate a flaw in the cable. 

 

A ‘scope would let you see instantaneous “data” (noise) on the line. 
 

Have you tried a different but similar cable?

[gregkinney]

I have not but I can. Just to clarify, you're suggesting plugging in a different basic 2 prong empty extension cord to see if the log entries return?

[BitSmith]

Yup.  Can't wait to see how this plays out! 

[gregkinney]

Ok, will be back in 18-24 hours.

[Brian H]

Just try to duplicate how the old one is wound and taped.

[gregkinney]

It wasn't wound and taped in deployment, that's only for storage. But I hear you - I'll replicate how the cord was laid out the same as before.

[gregkinney]

No strange log entries with the new extension cord. Is it safe to assume there is something wrong with that specific extension cord? And if so, is there any concern for safety? Am I ok to keep using it for other things or should I throw it away?