smithlevenson Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 (edited) I lost two 2477D's when lighting hit near my home and tripped a breaker. They are both exhibiting the same behavior: The Load wire is always hot now regardless of the status or what is pressed on the paddle. I was wondering if there is any mechanism in the circuitry that might cause this? Does it need to be opened and some sort of breaker reset? I opened one of them and didn't see any visible signs of damage, so it made me wonder if there was any other mechanical or memory reset that may need to be tripped. Thanks in advance! Edited August 12 by smithlevenson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Lavoie Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 If these devices have triacs in them, they could be blown, which often causes them to be shorted out and appear as being on constantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techman Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 (edited) You can try doing a factory reset on the switch, then a restore device. If that doesn't fix the issue then It's possible that a component in the switch was damaged by the volltage surge in which case you'll need to replace the switch The switch uses triacs. Edited August 12 by Techman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Lavoie Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 If the status on your controller appears to be correct but the load is always on, then that's a good indication that the control electronics survived, but the power triac didn't. That would usually be repairable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 (edited) I too would suspect the shorted triac if everything else still looks OK. I could not read the part number on it. In the FCC Database internal photos. It is mounted on one of the sides of the heat sink. With what looks like a rivet. It also shows a switching supply IC (LNK354GN) for running its electronics power source. Edited August 12 by Brian H Add information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithlevenson Posted August 12 Author Share Posted August 12 I will check and see. It looks easy enough to test with a multimeter. Will report back. I hate to repair something like a switch, but i am on ISY 994iz and the only new replacement looks to be the i3 Paddle. Upgrading the controller just to replace two switches feels bad, but my z-wave is already toast so it might make more sense just to get all my door locks back on the controller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techman Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 The 2477D is currently available from Insteon Dimmer Switch – Insteon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Lavoie Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 At worst, you might be able to turn it into a slave switch, if you have an otherwise good switch being used as a slave in a 3 way circuit somewhere else. Swap the switches and cap off the red load wire. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyMike Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 19 hours ago, Guy Lavoie said: At worst, you might be able to turn it into a slave switch, if you have an otherwise good switch being used as a slave in a 3 way circuit somewhere else. Swap the switches and cap off the red load wire. I have a few of these around the house. I've re-purposed switches with bad triacs and bad paddle switches in areas where I don't need them. I do "try" to put notes on the back of the switches to prevent me from re-re-purposing them (yes, this has bit me). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apostolakisl Posted August 14 Share Posted August 14 I third the solution of making it a slave switch in a 3-way scene. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithlevenson Posted August 19 Author Share Posted August 19 I tested the Triac and it has a short between 2 pins. I am not an expert so I am only going by what I could look up on YT, but apparently this is bad. I can't really see a safe way of replacing it since it needs a heat sink and a rivet to the case. I should be able to use two dummy switches to control 3 way's, but I will need one 2477 to actually control one of the lights. Probably not worth doing the full upgrade just for one switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbates Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 On 8/12/2024 at 4:51 PM, Guy Lavoie said: At worst, you might be able to turn it into a slave switch, if you have an otherwise good switch being used as a slave in a 3 way circuit somewhere else. Swap the switches and cap off the red load wire. On 8/13/2024 at 12:26 PM, IndyMike said: I have a few of these around the house. I've re-purposed switches with bad triacs and bad paddle switches in areas where I don't need them. I do "try" to put notes on the back of the switches to prevent me from re-re-purposing them (yes, this has bit me). Me too. Now I cut the red wire on bad triacs in my spares pile to within the literal inch of its life, so only a small wire nut can go on it and even I can't connect it to something 😜🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Lavoie Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 Has anyone ever replaced the triac on one of these? If so, do you have a triac part number? It looks like a regular TO-220 case. Just good stuff to know in case... It should be straightforward to drill out the rivet, unsolder it, and replace it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 (edited) Since it is dual band and has an RF section in it. You can find it in the FCC Database. Not overly clear but looked like a BTA12600S (cant see a possible letter following what I saw in the internal photos). That would be a TO-220. https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm Grantee SBP. Rest of the ID number. In this case. 2477D. Search and pick details. You should find internal and external photos. Probably more like other thing like test results and test photos. The parts list and schematics are confidential and you will not be able to find them. Should work with other ID numbers if dual band and have an RF section in them. Just a search of SBP alone should give a list of all modules in the database. Including the never released up dated PLM. Edited August 20 by Brian H Add a detail. Fix an error 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithlevenson Posted August 21 Author Share Posted August 21 17 hours ago, Brian H said: Since it is dual band and has an RF section in it. You can find it in the FCC Database. Not overly clear but looked like a BTA12600S (cant see a possible letter following what I saw in the internal photos). That would be a TO-220. https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm Grantee SBP. Rest of the ID number. In this case. 2477D. Search and pick details. You should find internal and external photos. Probably more like other thing like test results and test photos. The parts list and schematics are confidential and you will not be able to find them. Should work with other ID numbers if dual band and have an RF section in them. Just a search of SBP alone should give a list of all modules in the database. Including the never released up dated PLM. I thought Insteon was originally open source and they had switch circuit board diagrams published. That also could have been a figment of my imagination. It's been a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyMike Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 21 hours ago, Brian H said: Since it is dual band and has an RF section in it. You can find it in the FCC Database. Not overly clear but looked like a BTA12600S (cant see a possible letter following what I saw in the internal photos). That would be a TO-220. https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm Grantee SBP. Rest of the ID number. In this case. 2477D. Search and pick details. You should find internal and external photos. Probably more like other thing like test results and test photos. The parts list and schematics are confidential and you will not be able to find them. Should work with other ID numbers if dual band and have an RF section in them. Just a search of SBP alone should give a list of all modules in the database. Including the never released up dated PLM. You were pretty much spot-on Brian. I opened up one of my old 2476D's. Last letter is a "W". BTA12-600SW. Shows up OK below. Looks much clearer with a 10x loop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) 6 hours ago, smithlevenson said: I thought Insteon was originally open source and they had switch circuit board diagrams published. That also could have been a figment of my imagination. It's been a while. I don't think it was open source. Joe Dada and Smartlabs were extremely protective. I paid for a membership in the Developers Group. With a non disclosure agreement. Then after it abruptly ended most of all the documentation did end up online. They also didn't give UDI all the needed information on some modules. Like the Siren Module. That UDI reversed engineered and got pretty close to working near 100%. No firmware files where evver given out to upgrade your presently owned modules. Though you did need a programmer to mate with the 5 pin programming internal connector. I can not comment on the present company. As I have seen nothing on good or still not giving the needed information. Edited August 21 by Brian H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 Thank you for checking the parts Id number. I knew it looked familiar. I believe it was in the older Lamplinc modules also. Module may have had a different wattage rating but that may have been differences in the heat sink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithlevenson Posted August 23 Author Share Posted August 23 (edited) On 8/21/2024 at 4:19 PM, IndyMike said: Last letter is a "W". BTA12-600SW. Damn it. Now I am tempted to just fix the two bad Triacs. Not super pumped about having a re-soldered switch in my wall, but maybe I can use it right under a smoke detector ; ). Edited August 23 by smithlevenson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyMike Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 22 hours ago, smithlevenson said: Damn it. Now I am tempted to just fix the two bad Triacs. Not super pumped about having a re-soldered switch in my wall, but maybe I can use it right under a smoke detector ; ). Have a close look at your switches before you start down this path. The PWB is inexpensive epoxy glass and rather easy to damage with heat. The Triac leads are bent at a right angle (you can see the bends in my photo) so the Triac can be riveted to the metal case and soldered into the board. Save your old Triac so you have a "template" for bending the leads. You'll need a pop-rivet (or similar) and thermal paste to attach the new Triac to the AL case. Not trying to talk you out of anything. Just letting you know what is involved and what materials you'll need. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithlevenson Posted August 24 Author Share Posted August 24 1 hour ago, IndyMike said: Not trying to talk you out of anything. Just letting you know what is involved and what materials you'll need. Absolutely. I am pretty sure I can manage it. I don’t love the thought of it in my walls, but no way would I use it if I wasn’t 100% confident the Triac was reinstalled to spec. I do appreciate the warning. It’s not a “simple” fix even though it is just one part soldered to a circuit board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinchRoller Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 These are the specs for the triac in the current version of the 2477D Insteon wall Switch. It can be purchased here at DigiKey BTA16-600CRG - Pinch VALUE Rating (Volts, Watts, or Amps) Tolerance Mfg Manufacturer Part # 16 Amp 600V Igt=25mA STMicro BTA16-600C Standard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Lavoie Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 Chances are good that you would be able to use the triac out of an old X10 WS467 wall switch. Many of us have a box with several of those laying around, from our early automation days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 (edited) Don't count on it working. The BTA12-600SW. Has a 10mA Logic Level trigger. The standard one may not trigger correctly. Higher voltage or amperage rating would probably be fine. The 10mA Logic Level trigger maybe an issue. For the standard part. Mouser has the exact part. https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/BTA12-600SWRG?qs=zgJYeb29rD5h9%2F6rjSG6BQ%3D%3D Edited August 29 by Brian H Add somethiing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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