Issues connecting with Insteon devices

[smorgasbord]

Upgraded my ISY-994i to eisy and things mostly work. However, on reboot I often get some pop-up error messages in the Admin Console:

 Cannot communicate With  <<name of the sensor (6-digit Insteon address)>>. Please check connections.

This is an intermittent problem. It happens to both battery powered and wired devices, including dual-band devices. My home isn't large, I do have an Access Point setup to bridge the electrical.

Could I have a bad PLM? It's several years old (2413S). I have an older EXICOMM 5010K that I think is actually 2412S. When I upgraded from ISY to EISY I followed the steps (used a new cable bought with the EISY) which did not involve backing up or restoring anything on the PLM.

Am I right to suspect the PLM? If so, what's my best fix? There are new ones being sold somewhere, right? 

TIA

 

[paulbates]

It's never a bad idea to suspect a PLM 🤪. Seriously, the age of the PLM matters. Can you shoot a picture of the back with all numbers/IDs/stickers shown and post back here?

Also, I would:

• Unplug the PLM, wait 10 seconds and plug back in
• Repeat the eisy power on/off.. did it report the same problems?
• Run the "4 tap test" on your access point or other plug in devices. Go look at your Insteon devices and see how they respond to it. Keep track of which is on which power leg, that will help with the next recommendation below.
• Start keeping track of the devices it reports in the messages, look for commonalities like which power leg they are on.

 

[smorgasbord]

I did the unplug/replug PLM, but note I did it when upgrading to the EISY also. This time when rebooting the EISY I got a different device as not connecting (an IOLinc, which is dual-band).

Also, I almost never get the same problems - different units are reporting as not connecting at different start ups. Sometimes while running, too, iirc.

I have an outdoor outlet that I use as my bridge, not an Access Point, sorry. I just did the 4 tap test on it and the PLM was blinking green only.

Some of the devices reporting as missing as battery powered (motion sensors). 

The Admin Console has options for backing and restoring the PLM. I've never done that. Should I reset the PLM? Not sure how the EISY uses it or anything it might hold, settings-wise.

Here's the back of my PLM,

Edited November 16 by smorgasbord

[paulbates]

That's an old PLM... 21st week of 2016. And if memory serves me correctly, 2016 was in the era of bad capacitors = bad PLMs. 

I'd order a new one and replace it on your terms rather than when it dies at an inopportune time 

You have a backup from right before you set up your eisy? When you get a new PLM, I'd restore that backup to the eISY, and then "Restore PLM" from that backup.

Also, if your PLM is with in 15' of your eisy, you can get a USB PLM

[smorgasbord]

OK, some final questions then

• From where should I order a new PLM - shop.insteon.com? My PLM is within 5' of the EISY, but I already have the proper cable. Is the USB PLM somehow better/future proofed than keeping the serial?
• I do have a backup from my ISY, but I've made major changes to the programming since then. I'm unsure as to the order of backing up and restoring, here's my best guess, using the Admin Console:
  1. Backup my current EISY programming
  2. Restore the last ISY programming to the EISY on the old PLM 
  3. Backup the PLM to a file using the Admin Console
  4. Replace the PLM with the new one
  5. Restore the PLM from the file
  6. Restore the EISY programming

Does that sound right? 

 

[paulbates]

22 minutes ago, smorgasbord said:

From where should I order a new PLM - shop.insteon.com? My PLM is within 5' of the EISY, but I already have the proper cable. Is the USB PLM somehow better/future proofed than keeping the serial?

I would order it from Insteon. I think the USB is cleaner, but if you have the cable and your eisy is already configed for it, serial probably makes sense.

 

22 minutes ago, smorgasbord said:

I do have a backup from my ISY, but I've made major changes to the programming since then.

This is the procedure

You would back up the eisy first. If your PLM is dying there may be some polluted links in the eisy's Insteon tables that will get backed up with it... usually fixed with individual "restore device"s based on which ones have problems.

Also wireless devices have to be put in set mode and restored individually

[smorgasbord]

I'm confused now. One set of instructions is for ISY only, the other for both, sort-of, and weird:

1. Unplug ISY from the power outlet
2. Unplug the PLM from EISY/POLISY and power outlet
3. Connect the EISY/POLISY to the new PLM
4. Plug the new PLM into a power outlet
5. Plug ISY into a power outlet

I'm also in a different situation since my ISY is in my desk drawer and I'm running EISY on my old PLM - following steps 1, 3, 4 and then instead of 5, plugging in my EISY. I don't understand step 2 at all - was my ISY plugged in but not usuing the PLM? Why would I ever have both plugged in at the same time?

This is suggesting I have both the ISY and EISY plugged in. And if that's really so, to which unit am I connecting via the Launcher? And I'm also confused on backing up the programming vs Restore PLM / Delete PLM when there's no Backup PLM.

I'm not sure why I need my old ISY anymore to replace the PLM I'm already running EISY on (and mostly working, just some devices sometimes can't be communicated with).  If it matters, my ISY is a ISY-994i/IR. It doesn't say "PRO" so I'm guessing it's not a PRO version. I am lucky in that right now I'm down to only one battery-powered device (a motion sensor). Everything else is hardwired. I recently removed a motion sensor, replacing it with a YoLink one.

Again, sorry for my confusion.

 

Edited November 17 by smorgasbord

[Techman]

The original instructions were written before the eisy/polisy was released. Any reference to the ISY should be replaced with EISY/Polisy. I'll update the instructions to eliminate any reference to the old ISY.

 

 

[smorgasbord]

OK, and in trying to decide which PLM version to get. Since I've already spent the money on the special serial cable for the EISY, should I get the serial PLM. Or is it worth digging up a USB cable and getting a USB version of the PLM? USB to serial converters are well-known technology and I've been using a serial to USB converter for another application for a couple decades now....

[Techman]

@smorgasbord

Attached is an updated set of instructions for replacing the PLM on an EISY/POLISY

Personally, I prefer the USB PLM as there's one less thing to fail.  It's also easier to locate the PLM away from the controller using a USB cable. 

Replace PLM Procedure (EISY or POLISY).pdf

Edited November 17 by Techman

[smorgasbord]

So, I have an old, barely used, PLM that is pre-dual band. It's labeled as an EZICOMM 5010K and called a "Insteon RS232/RS485 Adapter", but on the back the label reads:

2233-233

  V1.7

1225

Is this a good-enough PLM for me to try it out, following the replacement instructions? I think I'll lose whatever RF the 2413S has, but I've got other dual band devices in the house. Might be worth trying before ordering a new PLM completely, no?

[Techman]

The EZCOMM / SMARTENIT PLM is comparable to the Insteon 2412S PLM.  The PLM was made in 2012 so its firmware is outdated. 

You'll need the Insteon serial cable as the pin out is different from the stock serial cables.

Edited November 17 by Techman

[paulbates]

To add to @Techman's comments... outdated firmware means that it's i1, not i2 Insteon protocol and it wont support more modern Insteon devices, or not as well as they should be.

[smorgasbord]

OK, I just ordered a new PLM. I'll report back when I get it.

Thanks!

[smorgasbord]

OK @paulbates, got my new PLM and installed it, following @Techman's instructions. Went smoothly.

And so far, all my insteon devices are working. Which means that outlet I replaced and chewed up in the process was probably still good after all.

Is there any reason to keep my defective serial 2413S PLM, or toss it out with the outdated 2412S?

[paulbates]

Glad to hear you're working

5 hours ago, smorgasbord said:

Is there any reason to keep my defective serial 2413S PLM, or toss it out with the outdated 2412S?

The capacitors can be repaired if you're good with a soldering iron and working on electronics. If not (I'm not), I would dispose of it

[Geddy]

7 hours ago, smorgasbord said:

Is there any reason to keep my defective serial 2413S PLM, or toss it out with the outdated 2412S?

As @paulbates says they can be repaired. If you're not comfortable with the process there is a service many have used in the past that markets on ebay. There are old posts about this (if you can't find through forum search look up using Google Site search - they might have been auto archived after a certain time).

Here's the ebay info for service/repair: https://www.ebay.com/itm/284790289019

[smorgasbord]

OK, I guess the question is now that I've got a new one from the Insteon folks, should I get my older one refurbished/rebuilt so that I have a spare for the future? I did get another serial one just to keep my cabling intact.

[Guy Lavoie]

Having a spare PLM on hand is always a good idea.

[apostolakisl]

1 hour ago, smorgasbord said:

OK, I guess the question is now that I've got a new one from the Insteon folks, should I get my older one refurbished/rebuilt so that I have a spare for the future? I did get another serial one just to keep my cabling intact.

At one time PLM's were not available.  So fixing it was of course your best option.  Since you can just buy a new one, I would do that.  They don't cost much more than sending an old one off for repair, and then you have a new one.  If you have a soldering station and easy access to the correct capacitors then fix it.  In summary, I would buy a new one to have as a spare and put this one someplace as a just-in-case unit that if worse came to worse, you could fix.

[Brian H]

I have a few spare PLM modules. As I like to look for obvious changes in the PLM.

Along with a spare ISY994i.

[smorgasbord]

Since I'm also using YoLink devices, I don't have a need for my old ISY994i. I suppose I should just sell it on eBay?