Four Insteon switches work okay from ISY994, but not from Insteon controllers

[creeble]

I have four Insteon switches (one 2856D2, one 2477D, two 2476D) that seem to be controllable from the Admin Console and go on/off from Programs, but don't respond to Insteon controllers.  They all show up in the Admin Console with exclamation points.

Is there a way (through the Console?) to reset the "Membership" of these devices individually, or do I have to try a "Restore Devices" for the whole network of devices?  I have about 15 devices total, and the last time I remember doing that, it never completed.  But that was a long time ago.

[Guy Lavoie]

Sounds like missing direct links. Did you do any manual linking at some point? That's what the instructions in Insteon device packaging show you. If you did that, and then added them to your ISY/eisy, the linking process will usually allow you to choose to keep existing links, or delete them. If you deleted them (and I think that's the default), then that would explain what you're seeing.

Now the thing is this: when you set up a ISY/eisy, it doesn't create direct links between devices like the manual Insteon linking does. It always does it as scenes, in order to include itself as part of the scene, to be able to monitor status and control devices from the admin console or programs.

So I suggest that you re-establish those device to device links by creating scenes and adding the devices to the scenes as the appropriate controllers/responders.

[creeble]

Thanks Guy. I do not believe I set up the links to these devices with anything but the ISY console. I also believe that the links were lost when we had a power outage and the house went to standby generator; we weren't home when this happened but it seems like it's been broken since we got back.

What does the exclamation point on these devices mean? Again, I can control them directly via on/off in the ISY controller, but not through any of the scenes in the controller.

[Guy Lavoie]

Good question about the exclamation points. I don't know. Hopefully someone else will come along and tell us.

Have you tried the "restore device" on at least one or two of them? What happens?

[creeble]

Yes, tried "restore device" on them.  It seemed like it was communicating with them, but it didn't remove the "!" and didn't make them respond to controllers.

I suppose I can try "Restore Devices" for the whole network this weekend and cross my fingers.

[oberkc]

2 hours ago, creeble said:

What does the exclamation point on these devices mean?

Typically, it means "cannot communicate".  Try a query and see what happens.

 

[Brian H]

What controller models are you trying to use? Are they controlling the dimmers through the ISY994i? If they are through the ISY994i. You should be able to see the changes in the Administrative Console. When you try the Query you can get further clues with the Event Viewer in Level 3.

Only the 2477D is dual band. The others are power line only. Something else may have been effected with the power switch.

Try a factory reset on one of the switches and then a restore.

[Brian H]

Only the 2477D and 2413S PLM will receive Insteon RF commands. From Insteon controllers like a Remotelinc II. As the rest are power line only.

One other thing to think of. If older ones are using the original I1 protocol. A restore will use eight single bit messages and eight ACK messages back to write one byte of data into a modules link database. So it will take time for a restore especially if there is poor power line conditions and retries have to be done.

[creeble]

On 11/23/2024 at 3:44 PM, Brian H said:

Only the 2477D and 2413S PLM will receive Insteon RF commands. From Insteon controllers like a Remotelinc II. As the rest are power line only.

One other thing to think of. If older ones are using the original I1 protocol. A restore will use eight single bit messages and eight ACK messages back to write one byte of data into a modules link database. So it will take time for a restore especially if there is poor power line conditions and retries have to be done.

Don't RF-capable devices forward messages over powerline? I'm able to control one 2856D from my mini remote with no problems. It's the same scene that has the other 2856D with the ❗ 

I haven't tried factory reset yet, but will this weekend.

[Brian H]

Yes the dual band modules. Do receive the Insteon RF messages and send them back on the power lines.

The power line only devices. Have to be reachable by that dual bands power line communications message. The 2856D you can control it is receiving the commands. The ones even in the same scene that do not respond. Are not receiving the commands.

It sounds like you have a power line communications problem to the 24856D modules that do not follow the commands. Any new or moved electronic devices that maybe making power line noise or have become a signal sucker? You may try a test and start unplugging other electronics on the circuit the unresponsive 2856D is on. The 2856D is a plug in module. Try moving it to a different circuit and then see if the response changes. If you have any phase coupler to get the two incoming power lines. It may have failed.

You may want to hold off on the factory reset and see if anything else. Like a signal sucker, noise maker of failed phase coupler is the issue.

[creeble]

Picking this back up -- I replaced the lamp dimmer, and tried reprogramming.

The mini controller works fine (all programming done through the Administration Console).  Controls the new dimmer perfectly (2457D2).

But when I went to change the programs that do timed on/off of that dimmer, it failed to work.  When I added the device, I used a new name, and deleted the old lamp dimmer.  Then I had to add the new dimmer to all the scenes, and as I said, the mini controller and other controllers worked fine, but the programs for timed dimming no longer worked.

Then I noticed that the programs had a little red bar on the left side of the little icon before the name, instead of a green bar.  I don't have a secret decoder ring, so I have no idea what that meant, but presumably it was a bad thing (and no, the programs were not disabled; that gives some other indication).

So I went to the "Summary" page, and tried running the "Run Then" condition on each of the programs -- which worked.

And voila, when I went back to the "Details" page, the little red bar was gone.  Huh?

And then, in the morning, the program ran fine.

But just now I opened the admin console and... the red markings are back on the two programs that control that dimmer. Who knows whether the programs will work in the morning or not.

Anybody have a secret decoder ring, or can otherwise tell me what might be going on? 

[oberkc]

41 minutes ago, creeble said:

the red markings are back on the two programs that control that dimmer.

Red bar on program indicates that the program last ran false.  Green bar means last ran true.  Solid red means it is currently running (usually indicating a wait statement within) false and solid green means currently running true.  

[Techman]

@creeble

The red exclamation point to the left of a device means the PLM can't communicate with the device. It sounds like you have marginal communications between your ISY and your device(s), take a look at this troubleshooting link.

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/INSTEON:_Troubleshooting_Communications_Errors

Edited Thursday at 03:24 AM by Techman

[creeble]

Quote

14 hours ago, oberkc said:

Red bar on program indicates that the program last ran false.  Green bar means last ran true.  Solid red means it is currently running (usually indicating a wait statement within) false and solid green means currently running true.  

 

Thank you @oberkc !

Unfortunately it doesn't explain why the programs didn't run when I first updated them.  When I ran the programs from the "Summary" page, they worked, and seem to be working now.

14 hours ago, Techman said:

@creeble

The red exclamation point to the left of a device means the PLM can't communicate with the device. It sounds like you have marginal communications between your ISY and your device(s), take a look at this troubleshooting link.

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/INSTEON:_Troubleshooting_Communications_Errors

I have no red exclamation point for the new lamp dimmer that is used in these programs.  The mini controller works with these fine, and now the ISY seems to control these fine, but my problem was that when I first updated the programs with the new device, the programs did not run, even though I could control them manually from the Admin Console.  It was like the updated programs were just not recognized by the ISY.

I do have two devices that have exclamation points on the Devices page, and I have replacement switches for them that need to be installed.  Curiously, these lights always seem to turn on, but can't be turned off by any controller or the ISY.

[oberkc]

8 hours ago, creeble said:

Unfortunately it doesn't explain why the programs didn't run when I first updated them. 

True, but I was just responding to your statement that you did not have the secret decoder ring.  

 

8 hours ago, creeble said:

Curiously, these lights always seem to turn on, but can't be turned off by any controller or the ISY.

I tend to ascribe this problem to the load attached to the Insteon device.  When off: interference. When on: interference.  If possible, temporarily disconnect the load (unscrew the light bulb?) and see if the Insteon devices can now be turned on AND off.

 

8 hours ago, creeble said:

but my problem was that when I first updated the programs with the new device

I wonder if the program changes were not initially saved.