java issues ...it think

[cwhite951]

SO I'm in the middle of swapping everything over to a new computer along with Windows 11 (10 on the old one). I was having some issues with the ISY994 on the old one so I picked up an eisy to use with the new set up. I'm still running both computers and I can connect to the ISY with the old one. it looks like I can connect with the new computer but I get a Java error and cant get to the ISY launcher to work - Java error screen attached.

I am not fluent in Java.....help!

[paulbates]

The journey that got you to this point is not clear. What steps did you take to get to that point?

[Geddy]

@cwhite951 agreeing with @paulbates about knowing the steps you took to this point, but also would ask what version of Java did you download? If you just go to java.com and download the current release found there (currently showing: Version 8 Update 431 [Release Date: October 15, 2024]) that's all you need. Often times people will download a different java version and it's not going to run correctly without a lot of work. 

Next be sure no VPN or Anti-virus software is running.

Then just a random thought is run the "Configure Java" app (in Windows just hit the Windows icon to open the menu and type in "java" and "Configure Java" should come up as an app. Once that is open click on the Advanced tab. Scroll to (near) the bottom and make sure to UNCHECK "Use SSL 2.0 compatible ClientHello format" if it's currently checked. (It more than likely shouldn't be, but just in case something caused it to be checked be sure to uncheck it. 

Lastly, just double check that start.jnlp is associated with Java Web Launcher. Open windows explorer and locate your start.jnlp file, right click, and select properties. In the "Opens with" portion it should show "Java(TM) Web Launcher". If it's not showing that you need to change what it opens with "javaws" (it's being put in different places here and there. I'm on Win10 and found it in "C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.8.0_431\bin". (more than likely you won't have to get into this amount of fixing it though)

[apostolakisl]

try downloading the java uninstaller and completely remove java.  then install fresh making sure you get the version talked about above.

Java is just a PITA in my opinion.  Can't wait for Benoit to get the web interface running.

[cwhite951]

deleted Java and reinstalled it - works now. This is on a brand new machine. I installed Java update but it looks like it didn't work out the first time.

My journey is long and old....i set u p my ISY994 over 10 years ago and learned a lot of stuff. I have close to 100 devices with scenes, voice control and such. ran great for 10 years. last year the scenes quit working and I spent a while trying to track in down. PLM was iffy, replaced it and still had issues. too busy to go into 'self learning ' mode (im am getting old enough that I have forgot a lot of the good stuff i figured out 10 years ago). As part of the switch to the new computer I bought a new eisy and now I am migrating to that and will see what i can do about being sceneless. 

Getting a new machine and a new operating system makes for lots of work!

so the Java thing is cured, now on to the scene issues (need the new USB PLM first!) still running on the 994.

[apostolakisl]

27 minutes ago, cwhite951 said:

deleted Java and reinstalled it - works now. This is on a brand new machine. I installed Java update but it looks like it didn't work out the first time.

My journey is long and old....i set u p my ISY994 over 10 years ago and learned a lot of stuff. I have close to 100 devices with scenes, voice control and such. ran great for 10 years. last year the scenes quit working and I spent a while trying to track in down. PLM was iffy, replaced it and still had issues. too busy to go into 'self learning ' mode (im am getting old enough that I have forgot a lot of the good stuff i figured out 10 years ago). As part of the switch to the new computer I bought a new eisy and now I am migrating to that and will see what i can do about being sceneless. 

Getting a new machine and a new operating system makes for lots of work!

so the Java thing is cured, now on to the scene issues (need the new USB PLM first!) still running on the 994.

I assume when you say you lost your scenes, you mean that they aren't working when initiated from ISY.  I have never heard of an entire Insteon install losing its scenes.  By that I mean, if you have a scene linking say 4 Insteon devices together, then using one of those 4 devices to control the scene would still work regardless of ISY or the PLM.

Scenes aren't native to ISY, they are native to Insteon.  You could unplug ISY and your Insteon scenes would still all work between Insteon devices.  A device, like ISY, when connected to a PLM becomes a defacto Insteon device.  When you use ISY to create/modify a scene, ISY tells the PLM what you want and then the PLM creates all the Insteon links on all of the Insteon devices involved.  The PLM ends up being a member of every scene.  ISY is just the "boss" telling the PLM what to do, but the PLM is what actually does it.

So suspect you have a PLM issue, not an ISY issue.  ISY lets you restore all of the data that was on the PLM should your PLM die.  This should put your ISY right back to normal.

[cwhite951]

sorry, i should be more specific!

I cant get the Scenes to work that are initiated by the ISY. Insteon buttons that have been programmed with a scene work fine.

I can voice control induvial devices but not ISY scenes. I have reprogrammed the PLC (i have two of them) and the ISY says they are communicating fine. I cannot turn on a ISY scene via the ISY (voice or PC). The admin console reports back hte device condition and I can turn individual devises on / off from the PC - but the ISY scene dont respond and the status is wrong. So it looks (to me) like the PLM is doing some of its job.

thanks for the help!

[cwhite951]

one other detail - i can successfully voice command individual devices without an acknowledgment from an echo device but if I ask of a scene I get an 'ok' but nothing happens. ?

[apostolakisl]

I would factory reset your new PLM, then restore from ISY.

You can also check your PLM links table and compare it to the ISY links table.  Under tools/diagnostics.

[Geddy]

@cwhite951 did you by chance migrate from an ISY994 running a 4.x firmware? (Do you recall?) your symptoms somewhat indicate you might have and now in the 5.x firmware scenes are different and need to be repaired and sometimes recreated or reconfigured. Make sure if you’re manipulating a scene from admin console or Alexa that the scene settings are correct at the scene level. Like you I set my scenes up ages ago, but I did go to 5.x on the ISY994 and had to fix things back then. Thankfully they worked after the eisy migration a couple of years ago. 

[apostolakisl]

 

I feel like you have a corrupt PLM and or corrupt links table in your ISY.  Again, run the diagnostics on the PLM scene table.  For example, I have 571 links on PLM with a good sized Insteon install.  It sounds like you should have a similar number.  I don't know how ISY would ever get a corrupted links table, but perhaps @Geddy remarks apply?  I don't know, I have had ISY since the original 99i all the way through to now and never had ISY corrupt the links table.

If you run diagnostics/links table on a single device, then hit the "compare" button, it will first read the actual links on the device, then compare to what ISY thinks should be on the device.  They should match.  If not, then either ISY has corrupt links database or the device does (or I suppose both could).  If the scene works correctly when not controlled by ISY, then ISY would presumably have the corrupt tables.  So, restoring the PLM from ISY would just be putting wrong links on the PLM.  In which case, restoring an older backup of ISY from when it did work may be warranted.  After restoring ISY, you would then restore the PLM from ISY which should put the proper links back to the PLM.  I would not start restoring individual devices assuming the scene works when not going through ISY.

 

 

6 hours ago, cwhite951 said:

one other detail - i can successfully voice command individual devices without an acknowledgment from an echo device but if I ask of a scene I get an 'ok' but nothing happens. ?

You get an OK, because that is Echo telling you it talked to ISY successfully.  It is not telling you that ISY talked to the PLM successfully.  

7 hours ago, cwhite951 said:

 

I can voice control induvial devices but not ISY scenes. I have reprogrammed the PLC (i have two of them) and the ISY says they are communicating fine. I cannot turn on a ISY scene via the ISY (voice or PC).

ISY could be communicating with the PLM fine, but if the links are corrupt in the PLM, it won't work. 

ISY never gets reported back device status from a scene.  ISY ASSUMES the status of the devices after a scene event, regardless of whether ISY or another Insteon device triggered the scene.  If you trigger a scene from outside of ISY, the scene command goes out over the network, the PLM receives that message and reports it to ISY.  ISY has a copy of the links table and knows what SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED, and changes the status of all the devices to what should have happened, whether it did actually happen or not.  When a scene is triggered, Insteon protocol does not allow for each device in the scene to report a status (ACK).  Presumably because you would have a flood of traffic all at once.  This is different from a single device.  When you control a single device, the device does report (ACK) its status and ISY will update the status according to what the device actually said it did, not what ISY assumed it would do.  If ISY sends out a single device command and ISY does not get an ACK, it will show the device as "failure to communicate".  You will not ever get a "failure to communicate" when running a scene.

 

[cwhite951]

11 hours ago, Geddy said:

@cwhite951 did you by chance migrate from an ISY994 running a 4.x firmware? (Do you recall?) your symptoms somewhat indicate you might have and now in the 5.x firmware scenes are different and need to be repaired and sometimes recreated or reconfigured. Make sure if you’re manipulating a scene from admin console or Alexa that the scene settings are correct at the scene level. Like you I set my scenes up ages ago, but I did go to 5.x on the ISY994 and had to fix things back then. Thankfully they worked after the eisy migration a couple of years ago. 

I did upgrade to 5.3.4 last year. its possible that made things worse but I cant remember the exact time i updated vs issues.

If I run a scene test I get the following fails

all the devices within the scene when operated directly  fine