CJVann Posted January 26 Posted January 26 I just replaced all my Insteon switches with Z-wave (praying that wasn't a huge mistake). I'm trying to replicate an Insteon 3-way scene with 2 Z-wave switches: One switch is connected to a light, the other switch is connected to power only. I've tried putting the light, the Basic Associations (2, 5, 6), and the Dimmer Control nodes all in a scene, but no matter what I do, neither switch controls the other. The switch that's connected to power-only can't seem to tell the other switch to turn on. Can one Z-wave switch tell another to turn on (via scene)? Can one Z-wave switch tell another it's brightness level? If I set one to 30%, I want the other to show 30% on its brightness level LED bar as well. This house is LOADED with 3 and 4-way switches, so I have to either get this working or change it all back to Insteon. Quote
oberkc Posted January 26 Posted January 26 9 minutes ago, CJVann said: I'm trying to replicate an Insteon 3-way scene with 2 Z-wave switches I have tried, but not as hard as you. One of the things I recall may be required is that the link type must be Z-wave and that not all z-wave devices have this capability (I was able to achieve it only with one device I own...a motion sensor). I have given up on trying to make this happen. Hopefully, someone else has had better luck and can help. Quote
vbPhil Posted January 26 Posted January 26 I haven’t tried this but it might be you need z-wave switches that are 3-way compatible. https://aeotec.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/6000247679-3-way-wiring-installation-for-illumino-switch Quote
vbPhil Posted January 26 Posted January 26 Here’s another discussion on it. https://www.thesmartesthouse.com/blogs/the-smartest-blog/114982596-wiring-z-wave-switches-do-s-and-don-ts Quote
CJVann Posted January 26 Author Posted January 26 Thanks. These have options for several 3-way modes (and have a traveler terminal), but its description is vague. I’ll get there one way or another!! FYI, Insteon remotes, keypads and switches all control these Z-wave switches perfectly in a simulated 3-way. Quote
vbPhil Posted January 26 Posted January 26 Here’s another description. What z-wave switches are you using? https://www.support.getzooz.com/kb/article/1259-how-to-use-multiple-zooz-switches-in-3-way-and-4-way-set-ups/ Quote
CJVann Posted January 26 Author Posted January 26 (edited) They are Inovelli Red Series (Z-Wave) 2-1 switches (acts as a dimmer or on/off switch). I've never used Z-wave before, but if I understand correctly, it appears that Z-wave devices in EISY scenes are "Responder Only" even when marked as Controllers. The EISY can turn on Z-wave devices in a scene (Responders) but Z-wave devices can't trigger an EISY Scene. For example, putting a switch as a Controller and a wall module as a Responder does nothing when the switch is turned on. The manufacturer suggested I upgrade to another controller like Home Assistant, but I was REALLY hoping to avoid that. But I spent the weekend installing tons of these switches only to find they don't do anything - lol. Edited January 27 by CJVann Quote
Guy Lavoie Posted January 27 Posted January 27 (edited) If you look at one of your z-wave switches in the admin console device list and turn the switch on and off manually, does it's status update in the admin console? If so, then you could look for the status change using a program, and have the program correspondingly turn the scene on or off. Edited January 27 by Guy Lavoie Quote
Guy Lavoie Posted January 27 Posted January 27 Just for fun, I created a scene with a Jasco z-wave on/off module as a controller, and an Insteon wall switch as a responder. It works; turning the Jasco module on and off controls the scene perfectly. So the eisy can certainly use z-wave devices as scene controllers. Quote
CJVann Posted January 27 Author Posted January 27 At this point, I think the EISY is dying. Lights that WERE working with my Insteon remote are now taking 30-60 seconds to respond and turn on if at all. I rebooted EISY a few times, occasionally something will turn on, but very unreliably. Also tried unplugging / reinserting the ZMatter antenna and rebuilding the scene. Thank you for all the advice, and I really appreciate Guy testing out a scene to show it SHOULD be possible. Looks like I have no choice now but to move to another system. Quote
Guy Lavoie Posted January 27 Posted January 27 Well wait a bit... Maybe you have another issue that's affecting performance, like something stuck in a tight loop, making it slow. Is the eisy itself unusually hot to touch? If you look at the "summary" tab under programs, does anything look unusual in the "Activity" column? Anything strange like "running" constantly or even "out of memory"? You could try disabling some of the programs that appear to be running constantly, as a test. Quote
peterathans Posted January 27 Posted January 27 (edited) I have linked three Zooz Zen71 switches (on/off) into a scene to use as a 4-way circuit, and they work great. However these are on/off switches, not dimmers, so I don't know if the specific case you're looking for is possible (but you would think it is, since the on/off switches work). I should mention too these are grouped using Basic Association 2, which links the switches directly (not through the controller), so they work similarly to the Insteon scene linking. You might want to follow this user guide topic on Zwave scenes. Edited January 27 by peterathans Quote
oberkc Posted January 27 Posted January 27 1 hour ago, peterathans said: I have linked three Zooz Zen71 switches (on/off) into a scene to use as a 4-way circuit It is possible that I am doing things wrong, or it is possible that these particular devices don't support it. I have added four zwave devices into a scene. For each device, I have only added the nodes "Basic Scene Ctl 2" and "Basic Assoc 2". There are two of each type of node and no other nodes in this scene, for a total of four nodes. Each device is added as "controller". I believe a couple of those are zooz devices, one being an outlet, and one being a dimmer switch. Two devices are likely other brands. I could find no combination of controller device that would allow selection of a "native", including trying to link the two zooz devices natively. Quote
vbPhil Posted January 27 Posted January 27 1 hour ago, oberkc said: It is possible that I am doing things wrong Probably so. This is just a suggestion not based on actual experience but a long time Insteon, Z-Wave user. I think you need to add the main switch node of the z-wave switches as controllers of the scene, not those other "z-wave scene nodes". Just a thought. Quote
lilyoyo1 Posted January 28 Posted January 28 On 1/26/2025 at 5:06 PM, CJVann said: They are Inovelli Red Series (Z-Wave) 2-1 switches (acts as a dimmer or on/off switch). I've never used Z-wave before, but if I understand correctly, it appears that Z-wave devices in EISY scenes are "Responder Only" even when marked as Controllers. The EISY can turn on Z-wave devices in a scene (Responders) but Z-wave devices can't trigger an EISY Scene. For example, putting a switch as a Controller and a wall module as a Responder does nothing when the switch is turned on. The manufacturer suggested I upgrade to another controller like Home Assistant, but I was REALLY hoping to avoid that. But I spent the weekend installing tons of these switches only to find they don't do anything - lol. Zwave requires direct associations for what you are attempting to do. As long as they are within take it each other things will work. Because the hub is bypassed when DA is used, depending on programming, you may come to find out that you have even less flexibility than you do now (insteon is much more flexible than zwave by miles). Good luck with everything. Let us know how your project turns out. Quote
brians Posted January 28 Posted January 28 (edited) Those switches support multilevel group 3 and 4 associations and it is a feature of these to keep in sync. Question is does eisy support group 3 and 4 ? Notice how it skips from 2 to 5. But there is a dimmer control so maybe they rename it and that works same as group 3 or 4? Edited January 28 by brians Quote
oberkc Posted January 28 Posted January 28 13 hours ago, vbPhil said: Probably so. This is just a suggestion not based on actual experience but a long time Insteon, Z-Wave user. I think you need to add the main switch node of the z-wave switches as controllers of the scene, not those other "z-wave scene nodes". Just a thought. I believe I have tried this in the past, with the same lack of success, but perhaps I will try again. The use of the "basic association" nodes was in response to the post from peterathans who apparently had success using these nodes. Quote
CJVann Posted January 29 Author Posted January 29 UPDATE: As suspected, the EISY is now pretty well dead. I couldn't login and finally figured out that it defaulted to admin/admin for login (although UD Mobile still connects successfully?!?). If I try to do anything now, it just crashes. No Z-wave, no Insteon, just a paper weight. Appreciate the suggestions. Quote
CJVann Posted yesterday at 12:54 AM Author Posted yesterday at 12:54 AM Update: I bought a Raspberry Pi and set up Home Assistant and was able to easily configure 2 Z-wave switches to operate as a 3-way switch pair! I can dim/brighten one switch, and it will at the same time brighten/dim the other switch in real-time as if they're both connected to the load. I wish the EISY had this capability. Note that for Insteon control, the EISY is worlds ahead of HA. For example, putting a keypad button and a lamp module in a HA Scene does NOT allow the keypad to turn on the lamp. It only allows HA to turn the scene on/off. Mini Remotes are not scene capable; it adds them as a device with no buttons but allows you to trigger a program with a button press. It does not allow you to brighten/dim a lamp, for example, using a remote (by program). Also, HA does NOT keep track of changes to device status very well, so it often shows the incorrect status of devices. For example, if you turn something on via remote, keypad, locally, HA is completely unaware and will report the previous status. So, no real way to reliably know if lights are on or not. It has a billion options, but for reliability I prefer the EISY. My EISY is still non-functional, but I'm attempting to revive it. That IoX launcher never seems to find EISY unless I unplug EISY to reboot it first, then it's fine. I've probably done that one too many times and corrupted something. Quote
vbPhil Posted 16 hours ago Posted 16 hours ago I concur. The UDI Insteon controllers are way better than using Home Assistant directly with a modem. I'm using a Polisy for Insteon but use the z-wave adapter directly with HA. I really wish UDI would resurrect the lowly ISY994i for those of us that don't need all the other bells and whistles. It was excellent at what it did. 1 Quote
lilyoyo1 Posted 9 hours ago Posted 9 hours ago 6 hours ago, vbPhil said: I really wish UDI would resurrect the lowly ISY994i for those of us that don't need all the other bells and whistles. It was excellent at what it did. If all you need is insteon and do not want anything new, the 994 would still work. You can also use Insteon with the eisy without doing anything else as well. Quote
vbPhil Posted 8 hours ago Posted 8 hours ago 1 hour ago, lilyoyo1 said: If all you need is insteon and do not want anything new, the 994 would still work. I still have my 994i. I may try to resurrect it for fun. I wonder if the IoX backup from Polisy would load into it? But, as long as my Polisy works I’m good. Quote
Guy Lavoie Posted 8 hours ago Posted 8 hours ago I'd be more than surprised if a Polisy backup could be used on a ISY994i. Just way too different. 1 Quote
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