Erratic communication

[flsenior]

I have approx 30 Insteon devices in my home.  I am finding that the communication to/from some devices is erratic.  For example in one bathroom I have 4 dimmer switches and 3 on/off switches.  The adjacent bedroom has 2 outlets and 1 dimmer.  Two of the on/off switches are connected to ceiling fans.  They are erratic in communicating their status to the Eisy. 

I can manually turn on the switch and the Eisy will indicate that the switch is off. 

Each switch is supposed to trigger a program that starts a timer to shutoff the fan after 15 minutes.  However, since the status remains "off" on the Eisy, the program does not run. 

I have another on/off switch in the bathroom which operates on a program to turn on/off at a specific time each day.  That program runs accurately 100% of the time. 

Any suggestions on how to improve the performance of the on/off switches connected to the ceiling fans?

MBR Toilet Fan - [ID 0013][Parent 0019]

If
        'MBR Toilet Fan' is switched On
 
Then
        Wait  15 minutes
        Set 'MBR Toilet Fan' Off
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

 

[Guy Lavoie]

Are the switches dual band or powerline only? Also, when a fan is running, do the communications for other devices also seem less reliable? Motors can cause electrical noise, which doesn't help.

[Geddy]

3 hours ago, flsenior said:

I can manually turn on the switch and the Eisy will indicate that the switch is off. 

First: Disable the program for a while. (don't want it to trigger during the testing)

Then: Open admin console and run Event Viewer and set it to Level 3. Manually operate the switch a few times (pause 5-10 seconds between turning on/off). Observe if the switch LED blinks red during any of your times operating the switch. Then review the Event Viewer for that device (maybe post it - AS A FILE). Others here are much better versed in reviewing such a log and can give tips of what the results give you. 

But like @Guy Lavoie I think you might have some noise issues from the fan motors if they're directly controlled by on/off switches. 

I would double check the summary of the programs to see when the program last ran. Remember if you turn the switch off the program will then be False and the wait will end. But you've turned the fan off so you don't really need to turn it off with the program. 

3 hours ago, flsenior said:

Each switch is supposed to trigger a program that starts a timer to shutoff the fan after 15 minutes.  However, since the status remains "off" on the Eisy, the program does not run. 

Here you say "each switch" should trigger and that the "status" stays off. But the program you posted is for one switch and you have it for physical operation (i.e. "switched"). So not sure what's checking for the "status". 

[flsenior]

Guy - all of the switches are brand new, dual band.  No other switches are affected when the fan is running. 

[flsenior]

Geddy - The led did not blink red on any cycle.  The event log is attached.  I only posted 1 program as an example.  The other program is a duplicate with only the device name changed. 

My use of the term "status" is the on/off condition as shown on the admin console for each device. 

Regarding the summary.  I enabled the program and saved the changed.  I then turned on each fan switch.  One of then showed an event in the summary.  The other has no event recorded. 

 

ISY-Events-Log.v5.8.4__Fri 2025.02.07 02.39.43 PM.txt

[Guy Lavoie]

29 minutes ago, flsenior said:

Guy - all of the switches are brand new, dual band.  No other switches are affected when the fan is running. 

Interesting that of all the switches you mention, only the ones controlling fans are acting up. If you turn them on and off from the admin console (or better yet, from UD mobile in those rooms if you have that) do they miss commands? 

[Geddy]

@flsenior thanks for posting the event viewer info. I’d have to defer to others to dig into the details of that. Maybe @IndyMike or @Brian H might be able to take a look and have some suggestions. 

[IndyMike]

Hello @flsenior,

I had a look at the event viewer log that you posted.  What I see appears very good.  As you noted, I see only communication from 1 switch.

The attached is a cliff notes version of the event viewer with superfluous information removed.  In summary:

1. I see only communication from 71.EF.26
2. Communication between this device and the plm is EXCELLENT.  You have 3 hops remaining on all communication sequences.  It simply doesn't get any better.
3. You turned this device On and Off 5 times within roughly 4.5 minutes.
4. Each On triggered program 0013 with a CONTROL ON condition.
5. The device off did not trigger a program.

Observations:

1. Since you have excellent communication with this device, I would assume your PLM is in a very good location and the 71.EF.26 switch is communicating with it directly.  
2. Your second switch did not show up at all.  Either it has a strong signal absorber nearby (can't communicate with the PLM at all), or it isn't programmed correctly.

Again, given that communication with 71.EF.26 is excellent, I'm guessing that the second switch isn't programmed correctly.  It's basically missing the link that tells it to communicate with the PLM when you activate the switch.

Please try:

1. Query the switch with the event viewer open and post the results.  I'm anticipating good communication.
2. Perform a "link table read/compare" to see what Links are in the device and how they compare with what the ISY expects.  Again, please post the results.

IM

 

 

 

[flsenior]

Here is the program for the missing switch

MBR Shower Fan - [ID 0012][Parent 0019]

If
        'MBR Shower Fan' is switched On
 
Then
        Wait  15 minutes
        Set 'MBR Shower Fan' Fast Off
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

Your request logs and files are below.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

PS:  I was wondering if you could share what resources you have used to learn this type of information.  I would dearly like to know more about the Eisy and the tools that are available.

IoX Links Table.v5.8.4__Sat 2025.02.08 04.09.12 PM.xml Device Links Table.v5.8.4__Sat 2025.02.08 04.09.22 PM.xml ISY-Events-Log.v5.8.4__Sat 2025.02.08 04.10.52 PM.txt

[Techman]

@flsenior

What is the model of the switch(es) you're using to control the the fan(s).

Are you using dimmer switches, if so they can't control a load other than a light.

[flsenior]

All of the switches are brand new dual band devices.  I have no problems with other switches in this location or other places when the fans are running. I have taken steps to attempt to manage noise elsewhere such as connecting Eisy via Ethernet to the router and using a power line noise device on my UPS battery backup. 
 

I am not an electrical expert - is there any device that I could consider to suppress noise on the fans? 

[flsenior]

Both switches are on/off only. Not dimmers. Both are brand new. 
 

The switch that communicates is in a gang box with another on/off switch. The shower fan that does not communicate is in a box with 2 dimmers and a standard non-smart on/off switch. All two fan switches are within 15 ft of each other. 

[paulbates]

Is it that the fav can be turned on, but not off?

[Techman]

@flsenior

Have you tried doing a restore device on the switches?

 

[IndyMike]

@flsenior,

Thank you for posting the files.  Not exactly what I had expected.  The link table for your device (71.27.1b) appears to have the correct links.  It should communicate with the PLM when you activate it locally.  The ISY believes the link table to be correct.  Restoring this device will not help since the ISY believes it to be correct.

Your event log showed the device on levels when communicating to the PLM.  Unfortunately, the event viewer was set to a lower level, so I can't see the details of the communications (HOPs and such).  Not that big a deal since your communications with other devices appear to be good.

Since you can communicate with the device, and the device has the correct links, the only other thing that might be incorrect is the links in your PLM.  If the PLM doesn't have the correct responding link for your device, it will ignore it. 

If you have many devices that behave this way (PLM can't see them communicating), a PLM restore might be in order.  That may be a little drastic.

If you are only having issues with one or two devices, you could try deleting them from the ISY, factory resetting, and then re-adding them.  You will have to rebuild any scenes and programs afterward. 

Please let us know how things progress...  

 

Device Link Table

[flsenior]

IndyMike - I deleted the one device, did the factory reset and then rebuilt the program. 

Success!  It works as expected. 

Thanks for sharing your time and knowledge.  It is greatly appreciated.