Scenes Working But Failing Scene Test - Noise Issue?

[justin.cool]

Lee,

 

Any change in humidity and they send a report.......or temp. However, most of the time it appears to be humidity changes.

 

Something else may be contributing to the thermostat doing this..............

[justin.cool]

Lee and Indy,

 

 

 

First of all, a correction:

 

I have 78 devices, not counting signal lincs and access points. Sorry for the exaggeration.

 

However, about 10 of those are removed from the network while work outside on the patio is underway, as they are all for devices in the backyard area.

 

Next I ran the testing you recommended and the results tell the story, I think.

 

• Scene: Same as testing on 31 Oct, one Icon relay and one KPL, 8 button dimmer. With both devices set up as responders. KPL-B button was part of the scene.

• PLM isolated via a 15A plug in filter and a 20A in line filter.

• Access point in place piggy-backed on the PLM.

Test 27

• Starting point ON

• Office floor fan (Icon) FAILED

• Test KPL-B SUCCEEDED

 

Removed Access Point piggybacked on the PLM for test 28 through 30

 

Test 28

• Starting point ON

• Office floor fan (Icon) FAILED

• Test KPL-B SUCCEEDED

 

Test 29

• Removed Test KPL-B from the scene

• Starting point ON

• Office floor fan (Icon) SUCCEEDED

•

Test 30

• Starting point ON

• Added Test KPL-B back into network and scene as a responder

•

• Office floor fan (Icon) FAILED

• Test KPL-B SUCCEEDED

 

One could deduce that the PLM is flaky, at best.

 

I then attempted to remove the Test KPL from the network and do a factory reset and then add it back to the system.

• Remove device - OK

• Factory reset – OK

• Add device back to the network – FAILED

• See event log below for FAILED DEVICE ADD

 

Test 27

 

Mon 11/01/2010 11:16:53 PM : [GRP-RX ] 02 61 46 13 00 06

Mon 11/01/2010 11:16:54 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0F.FD.95 0F.D5.9D 61 13 46 LTOFFRR(46)

Mon 11/01/2010 11:16:54 PM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][0F.FD.95-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Mon 11/01/2010 11:17:08 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 11.BF.6F 0F.D5.9D 03 6F 46 (46)

----- Office Floor Fan Test Test Results -----

[Failed] Office Floor Fan (A B6 59 1)

[succeeded] Test KPL - B (F FD 95 2)

----- Office Floor Fan Test Test Results -----

Mon 11/01/2010 11:17:38 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.46 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

 

Test 28

 

Forgot to save the log….

 

Test 29

Mon 11/01/2010 11:23:24 PM : [GRP-RX ] 02 61 46 13 00 06

Mon 11/01/2010 11:23:25 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.B6.59 0F.D5.9D 61 13 46 LTOFFRR(46)

Mon 11/01/2010 11:23:25 PM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][0A.B6.59-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

----- Office Floor Fan Test Test Results -----

[succeeded] Office Floor Fan (A B6 59 1)

----- Office Floor Fan Test Test Results -----

Mon 11/01/2010 11:24:09 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.46 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

 

Test 30

Mon 11/01/2010 11:30:37 PM : [GRP-RX ] 02 61 46 13 00 06

Mon 11/01/2010 11:30:38 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0F.FD.95 0F.D5.9D 61 13 46 LTOFFRR(46)

Mon 11/01/2010 11:30:38 PM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][0F.FD.95-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

----- Office Floor Fan Test Test Results -----

[Failed] Office Floor Fan (A B6 59 1)

[succeeded] Test KPL - B (F FD 95 2)

----- Office Floor Fan Test Test Results -----

Mon 11/01/2010 11:31:22 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.46 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

 

FAILED DEVICE ADD: An event log of the results failed attempt to add the Test KPL to normal.

Mon 11/01/2010 11:30:37 PM : [GRP-RX ] 02 61 46 13 00 06

Mon 11/01/2010 11:30:38 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0F.FD.95 0F.D5.9D 61 13 46 LTOFFRR(46)

Mon 11/01/2010 11:30:38 PM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][0F.FD.95-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

----- Office Floor Fan Test Test Results -----

[Failed] Office Floor Fan (A B6 59 1)

[succeeded] Test KPL - B (F FD 95 2)

----- Office Floor Fan Test Test Results -----

Mon 11/01/2010 11:31:22 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.46 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

Mon 11/01/2010 11:35:33 PM : [Test KPL - B] Start : Removing from scene 'Office Floor Fan Test'

Mon 11/01/2010 11:35:33 PM : [Test KPL - B] Finish : Removing from scene 'Office Floor Fan Test' was Successful

Mon 11/01/2010 11:42:45 PM : [A 39 8D 1 ] Link 1 : 0FF0 [62060AB659FF1F06] Writing [62..............]

Mon 11/01/2010 11:43:07 PM : [F FD 95 1 ] Link 10 : 0FA8 [62070FD59DFF1F07] Writing [62..............]

Mon 11/01/2010 11:43:09 PM : [PLM ] Group 7 : Deleting Responder Link matching [F FD 95 1 ] Link 10 : 0FA8 [62070FD59DFF1F07]

Mon 11/01/2010 11:43:09 PM : [F FD 95 1 ] Link 11 : 0FA0 [62080FD59DFF1F08] Writing [62..............]

Mon 11/01/2010 11:43:12 PM : [PLM ] Group 8 : Deleting Responder Link matching [F FD 95 1 ] Link 11 : 0FA0 [62080FD59DFF1F08]

Mon 11/01/2010 11:43:13 PM : [Test KPL] Start : Removing device from ISY

Mon 11/01/2010 11:43:13 PM : [F FD 95 1 ] Link 3 : 0FE0 [62010FD59DFF1F01] Writing [62..............]

Mon 11/01/2010 11:43:15 PM : [PLM ] Group 1 : Deleting Responder Link matching [F FD 95 1 ] Link 3 : 0FE0 [62010FD59DFF1F01]

Mon 11/01/2010 11:43:15 PM : [Test KPL] Finish : Removing from ISY was Successful

Mon 11/01/2010 11:43:15 PM : [11 BA 30 1 ] Link 2 : 0FE8 [620109AB2D000001] Writing [62..............]

Mon 11/01/2010 11:43:37 PM : [A 39 8D 1 ] Link 1 : 0FF0 [62060AB659FF1F06] Writing [62..............]

Mon 11/01/2010 11:45:16 PM : ---- Initializing the linked devices ----

Mon 11/01/2010 11:45:16 PM : ---- All Linked Devices are now initialized ----

Mon 11/01/2010 11:45:16 PM : ---- Add remaining devices ----

Mon 11/01/2010 11:45:16 PM : [ F FD 95 1] Removing all links

Mon 11/01/2010 11:45:38 PM : [F FD 95 1 ] Failed getting engine version. Reverting to i1.

Mon 11/01/2010 11:48:19 PM : [ F FD 95 1] ** Not added ** Remove Device Links failed

Mon 11/01/2010 11:48:19 PM : ---- All Remaining Device Added ----

Mon 11/01/2010 11:48:19 PM : [11 BA 30 1 ] Link 2 : 0FE8 [620109AB2D000001] Writing [62..............]

Mon 11/01/2010 11:48:41 PM : [A 39 8D 1 ] Link 1 : 0FF0 [62060AB659FF1F06] Writing [62..............]

Mon 11/01/2010 11:51:00 PM : ---- Initializing the linked devices ----

Mon 11/01/2010 11:51:00 PM : ---- All Linked Devices are now initialized ----

Mon 11/01/2010 11:51:00 PM : ---- Add remaining devices ----

Mon 11/01/2010 11:51:00 PM : [ F FD 95 1] Removing all links

Mon 11/01/2010 11:51:22 PM : [F FD 95 1 ] Failed getting engine version. Reverting to i1.

Mon 11/01/2010 11:51:44 PM : [ F FD 95 1] ** Not added ** Remove Device Links failed

Mon 11/01/2010 11:51:44 PM : ---- All Remaining Device Added ----

Mon 11/01/2010 11:51:44 PM : [11 BA 30 1 ] Link 2 : 0FE8 [620109AB2D000001] Writing [62..............]

Mon 11/01/2010 11:52:06 PM : [A 39 8D 1 ] Link 1 : 0FF0 [62060AB659FF1F06] Writing [62..............]

[IndyMike]

Hello Justin,

 

A couple of things before you pronounce your PLM "BAD":

 

1) If your thermostat is really broadcasting every 5 seconds, you have little hope of passing a scene test (at least one that has more than a few devices). As Lee inferred, the thermostat communication will cause the PLM to abort the cleanup messages (causing a failure of the test).

 

2) Your log below shows the following when you attempted to re-add the KPL

on 11/01/2010 11:45:16 PM : ---- Add remaining devices ----

Mon 11/01/2010 11:45:16 PM : [ F FD 95 1] Removing all links

Mon 11/01/2010 11:45:38 PM : [F FD 95 1 ] Failed getting engine version. Reverting to i1.

Mon 11/01/2010 11:48:19 PM : [ F FD 95 1] ** Not added ** Remove Device Links failed

I've been using a V.2D KPL in my tests as well (same revision you posted above). The ISY always uses I1 mode with this device (it doesn't attempt using I2 mode as above). Please verify that you are using "Automatic Mode" under /link management/advanced options.

 

3) Was your KPL still on the filter during the delete/re-add process? Not sure what the complications might be when re-adding to your system.

 

4) Even with 78 devices, 337 Links sounds low. The scene that you have been working with is labeled 0X46 (72 dec). I believe that means you have 72 scenes. Per the link calculator (posted above) you should have well over 800 links.

 

I am far from an expert on PLM's, but perhaps a reset-restore would be in order (make sure you have a backup).

[justin.cool]

1) If your thermostat is really broadcasting every 5 seconds, you have little hope of passing a scene test (at least one that has more than a few devices). As Lee inferred, the thermostat communication will cause the PLM to abort the cleanup messages (causing a failure of the test).

 

This would certainly explain the original phenomenon, where NO scene tests passed at all, except for one of the devices in the scene. However, in my testing last night, there were NO thermostat messages as I had two filters blocking everything the PLM could possibly have seen.

 

I've been using a V.2D KPL in my tests as well (same revision you posted above). The ISY always uses I1 mode with this device (it doesn't attempt using I2 mode as above). Please verify that you are using "Automatic Mode" under /link management/advanced options.

 

Yes I am in the AUTOMATIC mode.

 

Was your KPL still on the filter during the delete/re-add process?

 

When I tried to add the KPL back in, the PLM, KPL and Icon were in a single power strip (no surge protection), and the power strip had two filters between it and the rest of the Insteon network. That said, I can see complications coming from that arrangement.

 

4. Number of links: I went to the link calculator as well, and got on the order of 700+ links, without even entering the number of responders and controllers.

 

As you suggested, i believe that a PLM reset - restore may be needed.

 

All that said, if my PLM were missing that many links, wouldn't there be some scenes that just wouldn't work?

[IndyMike]

Hi Justin,

 

 

This would certainly explain the original phenomenon, where NO scene tests passed at all, except for one of the devices in the scene. However, in my testing last night, there were NO thermostat messages as I had two filters blocking everything the PLM could possibly have seen.

 

Understand - I suppose it's possible that you picked the one "bad" KPL you have installed. I'd consider those odds to be very long.

 

I've been using a V.2D KPL in my tests as well (same revision you posted above). The ISY always uses I1 mode with this device (it doesn't attempt using I2 mode as above). Please verify that you are using "Automatic Mode" under /link management/advanced options.

Yes I am in the AUTOMATIC mode.

 

If you are in Automatic mode, I do not understand why the ISY/PLM is attempting to use I2 mode for programming. My system doesn't so this with the same firmware KPL.

 

As you suggested, i believe that a PLM reset - restore may be needed.

 

All that said, if my PLM were missing that many links, wouldn't there be some scenes that just wouldn't work?

 

Once again, I am not that strong on the PLM link table organization. From what I understand, your PLM can store up to 2000 links. The issue is that the processor is not fast enough to parse all of those links before another insteon message arrives. As a result, the PLM may not be able to locate the link for a responding device and will therefor ignore the transmission.

 

As far as your reported 337 links versus the calculated 700. I've found the link calculator to be a bit conservative (overestimates links), but to nowhere near this degree. My only idea would be that it was somehow interrupted during the count - unlikely since you ran it twice.

 

I would really like to get input from the UD team before putting you through the effort of a reset/restore operation on the PLM.

 

IM

[justin.cool]

IndyMike and the UD Team:

 

And now the plot thickens.

 

1. Upon reviewing the log and the event viewer it was clear that there was a lot of “Humidity†reporting from my three Venstar Thermostats, sometime as often as every three seconds.

2. I followed the directions on this topic in the forum and it stopped all spurious humidity traffic. (Soldered two connections together on the thermostat PCB.)

3. I double checked the “Automatic†configuration for message traffic:

 

 

4. I then went back to where I left off with Test 30 from 1 Nov, where the only difference is the Thermostats are no longer reporting humidity or generating spurious traffic.

 

• Put the PLM and Test KPL and Office Fan Icon Relay back into the “normal†configuration, ie no filtering.

• Reattached, to the network, the Test KPL that was failing to attach last night when the PLM was in the filtered configuration. This went without a hitch.

• Set up both the Test KPL and the Icon relay as responders in the scene, and ran a series of tests, as I had on 30 Nov.

 

Scene Test 31 - Office Floor Fan Test

• Starting point ON

• Office floor fan (Icon) FAILED

• Test KPL-A SUCCEEDED

• See results in event viewer below. Note that

o The device 0A.39.8D introduced some traffic here. That device is a Remote Linc and none of its buttons were pressed before, after or during this test.

o In addition, 11.BA.30, a trigger linc on the refrigerator door, caused some traffic as well.

o Something caused a “Unexpected Ack imCmd=62…..†I have no clue what that is.

 

Scene Test 32 - Office Floor Fan Test -

• Repeat of 31

• Starting point ON

• Office floor fan (Icon) FAILED

• Test KPL-A SUCCEEDED

• More traffic from the Remote Linc despite none of its buttons being pressed.

 

Scene Test 33 - Office Floor Fan Test -

• Removed the batteries from the Remote linc device: 0A.39.8D. Batteries not reinstalled for remainder of these tests.

• Starting point ON

• Office floor fan (Icon) FAILED

• Test KPL-A SUCCEEDED

• More Remote Linc related traffic. In addition, in this test, there was some traffic from the device 11.BF.6F, the upstairs thermostat.

 

Scene Test 34 – Different Scene: Upstairs Hallway Light

• I then ran Scene Test on another simple three way switch configuration for a hallway light, just as I had done several nights ago.

• Starting point ON

• The SWL with the light as a load SUCCEEDED,

• The SWL with no load, FAILED.

o Note: These are the exact results I got on 30 Oct for the same conditions.

• See results in event viewer below. Again more Remote Linc traffic……

 

Scene Test 35 – Upstairs Hallway Light

• I removed the access point that was installed on top of the PLM.

• Starting point ON

• Both SWL’s FAILED

• See results in event viewer below. Again more Remote Linc traffic……

 

Scene Test 36 – Upstairs Hallway Light

• I re-installed the access point on top of the PLM.

• Starting point ON

• The SWL with the light as a load SUCCEEDED,

• The SWL with no load, FAILED.

• See results in event viewer below. Again more Remote Linc traffic……

 

 

Bottom Line:

There is some unexplained traffic from devices that are NOT in operation.

There is some other traffic that I really don’t understand, but implies some sort of failure.

This unexplained traffic comes right on the heels of a failed Scene Test……………

Can’t help but think that there could be some relation.

 

It would appear that I really need to get to the bottom of the unexplained traffic first…. Then work other problems from there.

 

As usual, any help would be appreciated. Do I need to reset / restore my PLM now?

____________________________________________________________________________________________

EVENT VIEWER

 

Scene Test 31 - Office Floor Fan Test

Tue 11/02/2010 10:02:41 PM : [GRP-RX ] 02 61 46 13 00 06

Tue 11/02/2010 10:02:42 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0F.FD.95 0F.D5.9D 61 13 46 LTOFFRR(46)

Tue 11/02/2010 10:02:42 PM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][0F.FD.95-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

----- Office Floor Fan Test Test Results -----

[Failed] Office Floor Fan (A B6 59 1)

[succeeded] Test KPL - A (F FD 95 3)

----- Office Floor Fan Test Test Results -----

Tue 11/02/2010 10:03:02 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.46 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

Tue 11/02/2010 10:03:02 PM : [Ext. Msg. Handler] Unexpected Ack imCmd=62 cmd1=LTOFFRR 0x13

Tue 11/02/2010 10:03:02 PM : [11 BA 30 1 ] Link 2 : 0FE8 [620109AB2D000001] *Failed Writing [62..............]

Tue 11/02/2010 10:03:02 PM : [A 39 8D 1 ] Using engine version i1 for 'RLinc #1 Button 1 0A.39.8D.1'

Tue 11/02/2010 10:03:02 PM : [A 39 8D 1 ] Link 1 : 0FF0 [62060AB659FF1F06] Writing [62..............]

Tue 11/02/2010 10:03:02 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0A.39.8D 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F)

 

Scene Test 32 - Office Floor Fan Test -

Tue 11/02/2010 10:13:24 PM : [GRP-RX ] 02 61 46 13 00 06

Tue 11/02/2010 10:13:24 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0F.FD.95 0F.D5.9D 61 13 46 LTOFFRR(46)

Tue 11/02/2010 10:13:24 PM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][0F.FD.95-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

----- Office Floor Fan Test Test Results -----

[Failed] Office Floor Fan (A B6 59 1)

[succeeded] Test KPL - A (F FD 95 3)

----- Office Floor Fan Test Test Results -----

Tue 11/02/2010 10:13:54 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0A.39.8D 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F)

Tue 11/02/2010 10:14:03 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0A.39.8D 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F)

Tue 11/02/2010 10:14:07 PM : [A 39 8D 1 ] Link 1 : 0FF0 [62060AB659FF1F06] *Failed Writing [62..............]

Tue 11/02/2010 10:14:32 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.39.8D 00.00.06 C7 13 00 LTOFFRR(00)

Tue 11/02/2010 10:14:32 PM : [standard-Group][0A.39.8D-->Group=6] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Tue 11/02/2010 10:14:32 PM : [ A 39 8D 6] DOF 0

Tue 11/02/2010 10:14:32 PM : [ A 39 8D 6] ST 0

Tue 11/02/2010 10:14:33 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.39.8D 00.00.06 C7 13 00 LTOFFRR(00)

Tue 11/02/2010 10:14:33 PM : [standard-Group][0A.39.8D-->Group=6] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Tue 11/02/2010 10:14:33 PM : Duplicate: ignored

Tue 11/02/2010 10:14:33 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.39.8D 00.00.06 C7 13 00 LTOFFRR(00): Process Message: failed

Tue 11/02/2010 10:14:33 PM : [standard-Group][0A.39.8D-->Group=6] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

Scene Test 33 - Office Floor Fan Test

Tue 11/02/2010 10:16:07 PM : [GRP-RX ] 02 61 46 13 00 06

Tue 11/02/2010 10:16:07 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0F.FD.95 0F.D5.9D 61 13 46 LTOFFRR(46)

Tue 11/02/2010 10:16:07 PM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][0F.FD.95-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

----- Office Floor Fan Test Test Results -----

[Failed] Office Floor Fan (A B6 59 1)

[succeeded] Test KPL - A (F FD 95 3)

----- Office Floor Fan Test Test Results -----

Tue 11/02/2010 10:16:27 PM : [A 39 8D 1 ] Using engine version i1 for 'RLinc #1 Button 1 0A.39.8D.1'

Tue 11/02/2010 10:16:27 PM : [A 39 8D 1 ] Link 1 : 0FF0 [62060AB659FF1F06] Writing [62..............]

Tue 11/02/2010 10:16:36 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0A.39.8D 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F)

 

Tue 11/02/2010 10:16:45 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0A.39.8D 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F)

Tue 11/02/2010 10:16:49 PM : [A 39 8D 1 ] Link 1 : 0FF0 [62060AB659FF1F06] *Failed Writing [62..............]

Tue 11/02/2010 10:17:31 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 11.BF.6F 0F.D5.9D 07 6E 48 (48)

Tue 11/02/2010 10:17:31 PM : [standard-Direct][11.BF.6F-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Tue 11/02/2010 10:17:31 PM : [ 11 BF 6F 1] ST 144

Tue 11/02/2010 10:17:31 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 11.BF.6F 0F.D5.9D 07 6E 48 (48)

Tue 11/02/2010 10:17:31 PM : [standard-Direct][11.BF.6F-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Tue 11/02/2010 10:17:31 PM : Duplicate: ignored

Tue 11/02/2010 10:17:31 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 11.BF.6F 0F.D5.9D 07 6E 48 (48): Process Message: failed

Tue 11/02/2010 10:17:31 PM : [standard-Direct][11.BF.6F-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

Scene Test 34 – Different Scene: Upstairs Hallway Light

Tue 11/02/2010 10:28:41 PM : [GRP-RX ] 02 61 43 13 00 06

Tue 11/02/2010 10:28:42 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 15.A2.9F 0F.D5.9D 61 13 43 LTOFFRR(43)

Tue 11/02/2010 10:28:42 PM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][15.A2.9F-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

----- Upstrs Hall Lite Scene Test Results -----

[succeeded] Upstrs Hall Lite (15 A2 9F 1)

[Failed] Upstrs Hall Switch-Prgmmble (15 A6 95 1)

----- Upstrs Hall Lite Scene Test Results -----

Tue 11/02/2010 10:29:01 PM : [A 39 8D 1 ] Using engine version i1 for 'RLinc #1 Button 1 0A.39.8D.1'

Tue 11/02/2010 10:29:01 PM : [A 39 8D 1 ] Link 1 : 0FF0 [62060AB659FF1F06] Writing [62..............]

Tue 11/02/2010 10:29:11 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0A.39.8D 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F)

Tue 11/02/2010 10:29:20 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0A.39.8D 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F)

Tue 11/02/2010 10:29:24 PM : [A 39 8D 1 ] Link 1 : 0FF0 [62060AB659FF1F06] *Failed Writing [62..............]

 

Scene Test 35 – Upstairs Hallway Light

Tue 11/02/2010 10:34:40 PM : [GRP-RX ] 02 61 43 13 00 06

----- Upstrs Hall Lite Scene Test Results -----

[Failed] Upstrs Hall Lite (15 A2 9F 1)

[Failed] Upstrs Hall Switch-Prgmmble (15 A6 95 1)

----- Upstrs Hall Lite Scene Test Results -----

Tue 11/02/2010 10:35:00 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.43 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

Tue 11/02/2010 10:35:00 PM : [Ext. Msg. Handler] Unexpected Ack imCmd=62 cmd1=LTOFFRR 0x13

Tue 11/02/2010 10:35:00 PM : [11 BA 30 1 ] Link 2 : 0FE8 [620109AB2D000001] *Failed Writing [62..............]

Tue 11/02/2010 10:35:00 PM : [A 39 8D 1 ] Using engine version i1 for 'RLinc #1 Button 1 0A.39.8D.1'

Tue 11/02/2010 10:35:00 PM : [A 39 8D 1 ] Link 1 : 0FF0 [62060AB659FF1F06] Writing [62..............]

Tue 11/02/2010 10:35:09 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0A.39.8D 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F)

Tue 11/02/2010 10:35:18 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0A.39.8D 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F)

Tue 11/02/2010 10:35:22 PM : [A 39 8D 1 ] Link 1 : 0FF0 [62060AB659FF1F06] *Failed Writing [62..............]

 

 

Scene Test 36 – Upstairs Hallway Light

Tue 11/02/2010 10:54:42 PM : [GRP-RX ] 02 61 43 13 00 06

Tue 11/02/2010 10:54:43 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 15.A2.9F 0F.D5.9D 66 13 43 LTOFFRR(43)

Tue 11/02/2010 10:54:43 PM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][15.A2.9F-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=2, Hops Left=1

----- Upstrs Hall Lite Scene Test Results -----

[succeeded] Upstrs Hall Lite (15 A2 9F 1)

[Failed] Upstrs Hall Switch-Prgmmble (15 A6 95 1)

----- Upstrs Hall Lite Scene Test Results -----

Tue 11/02/2010 10:55:02 PM : [A 39 8D 1 ] Using engine version i1 for 'RLinc #1 Button 1 0A.39.8D.1'

Tue 11/02/2010 10:55:02 PM : [A 39 8D 1 ] Link 1 : 0FF0 [62060AB659FF1F06] Writing [62..............]

Tue 11/02/2010 10:55:12 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0A.39.8D 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F)

Tue 11/02/2010 10:55:21 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0A.39.8D 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F)

Tue 11/02/2010 10:55:25 PM : [A 39 8D 1 ] Link 1 : 0FF0 [62060AB659FF1F06] *Failed Writing [62..............]

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello justin.cool!

 

1. Unexpected Ack means that the PLM sent an ACK even though we had not sent it a command. This may have been caused by the spurious traffic from unrelated devices

2. RemoteLincs are always in sleep mode if not operating and cannot create any traffic unless a) the battery is low (in rare cases) the buttons are bad or c) the RL is defective itself

3. As far as traffic from the InlineLinc, is it possible that you have some programs running in the background?

 

My observations:

1. The fact that you are getting traffic from RL is suspect here

2. Scene tests would surely fail if you have programs that run based on the condition of the devices being tested

 

My suggestions:

1. Please disable all your programs (on My Programs, click on the Schedule button, uncheck daily, Add to If, and then Save) ... you should see On Never in the condition

2. Remove the batteries out of your RemoteLincs

3. Perform the test on devices on the same phase as the PLM .. if this fails, then the problem could potentially be either the PLM or noise

4. Perform the test on devices on devices with a different phase than the PLM. If these fail, then the problem is bridge/Access Point

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[justin.cool]

Michel,

 

Thank you for the prompt response. You were clearly working overtime on this one!

 

I will try out your testing recommendations tonight. However, it is worth noting that Scene tests 33 through 36 that I ran, all had the battteries removed from the Rlinc, and the event viewer showed some sort of traffic related to that Rlinc device / address: 0A.39.8D.

 

Is there any legitimate way that this traffic should exist for all 4 of these tests, when the batteries were removed from the Rlinc?

[LeeG]

Justin,

 

The activity associated with the RemoteLinc address is the ISY attempting to write an update to the RemoteLinc. There must be some pending change to the RemoteLinc. I think if you select Disable for the RemoteLinc the ISY will not try to write the updates. Don't think the change will be lost. Just no attempt to make the change until the RemoteLinc is no longer marked Disabled.

 

Lee

[oberkc]

2. Scene tests would surely fail if you have programs that run based on the condition of the devices being tested

 

Really!? If I knew that at one point, I had certainly forgotten. I have potentially been chasing my tail on these scene tests for months (or longer). Could it be they have been failing due to some of my programs activating?

 

There is always something new to learn with this stuff.

[LeeG]

Insteon architecture has always aborted a Group (Scene) when other traffic is detected on the powerline. From one of the Insteon pubs...

 

"If the IM detects other INSTEON traffic during this process, it will abort

the ALL-Link Cleanup sequence...."

 

If a Program is triggered during Scene testing and injects powerline activity during a Scene test the Scene (Group) processing will be aborted. Depends on how many responders are in the Group (Scene), where that additional powerline traffic appears during the Scene tests, etc on what the effect will be.

 

Another old timer on a different forum commented a few days ago that hardly a day goes by where some new piece of information is learned. Between just being wrong and Smartlabs making changes under the covers I seem to learn something new all the time. One of the things that makes working with this technology great FUN!

[justin.cool]

Lee,

 

The activity associated with the RemoteLinc address is the ISY attempting to write an update to the RemoteLinc. There must be some pending change to the RemoteLinc. I think if you select Disable for the RemoteLinc the ISY will not try to write the updates. Don't think the change will be lost. Just no attempt to make the change until the RemoteLinc is no longer marked Disabled.

 

 

Thanks for the explanation. There should be some updates for the Rlinc, because I removed it from a scene during all of the multiple nights of testing this past week........

 

I have also noticed that the light on the Rlinc has been flashing quickly after I press one switch in particular.....another indication of something screwy.....

[justin.cool]

Lee,

 

Sounds like the lesson here is to have an absolutely traffic free environment for Scene Testing, except of course traffic from the units under test.

 

Given that, it would make sense to also disable / disconnect my thermostats, trigger linc's, or anything else that I can't absolutely control during testing.

 

Justin

[IndyMike]

Justin,

 

My apologies - I had completely forgotten about pending updates causing interference with the scene test. Sure sucks getting old.

 

http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?t=5177&highlight=

[IndyMike]

Lee,

 

I had not considered how pending writes against a removed device might impact the system. I have the PRO version of the ISY and it allows me to turn off automatic writes. It also indicates pending writes with a green arrow next to the device.

 

How do other versions of the ISY function - do they indicate which devices have pending or failed writes?

 

The reason I'm asking -

The quote below is from Justin's original post in this thread. I think you've already established that pending writes can interrupt the scene test process. Could the "slow" performance be due to failed write attempts against a device that had been removed from the system?

 

 

Recently I had some phantom links appear, and Rand guided me through the solution to that problem. However, as part of that, I noticed how long it took to “Copy Scene Attributes†for these large scenes, often as much as 15 minutes. I was told this was a pretty good indicator of noise issues for these devices. Further to that, I ran “Scene Testâ€, which I had never done before. And despite these scenes working just fine, all but ONE device in these scenes failed the Scene Test. I then proceeded to run the Scene Test on lots of other scenes, with lots of failures, (not 100%, but the majority), despite the reliability of all those scenes when initiated by the ISY or KPL.

Do I have a significant underlying noise problem? Is there some additional, simple testing I can do to verify that before I tear into the whole system looking for noise sources / signal suckers? Any advice along these lines would be greatly appreciated.

 

[IndyMike]

Just a note to mention that the below has not been my experience.

 

I understand that a program that runs during the scene test would cause the Clean up activity to terminate. But, for what ever reason, the programs appear to wait until after the scene test is run.

 

I have a whole house scene defined specifically for performing "scene tests". Many of the devices within this whole house scene are used to trigger status programs on my KPL's. I count no less that five programs that run each time I run this scene test. I have no failures of the devices in this scene.

 

2. Scene tests would surely fail if you have programs that run based on the condition of the devices being tested

 

Really!? If I knew that at one point, I had certainly forgotten. I have potentially been chasing my tail on these scene tests for months (or longer). Could it be they have been failing due to some of my programs activating?

 

There is always something new to learn with this stuff.

 

I put together a small scene in my basement to demonstrate this

I have five devices in the scene and a program that will run when on of the devices is turned off. When I run the scene test, all my devices respond properly and the program runs to turn off my additional scene. My program run time is after the scene test time (significantly after - but that's a different issue).

 

In short, I don't see evidence that a status driven program will interrupt a scene test. Time drive programs may be another matter.

 

If
       Status  'BSMT Stair' is Off
Then
       Set Scene 'SC BSMT Game' Off
Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Wed 11/03/2010 06:55:42 PM : [GRP-RX ] 02 61 43 13 00 06

Wed 11/03/2010 06:55:43 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 00.37.AD 13.22.F9 61 13 43 LTOFFRR(43)

Wed 11/03/2010 06:55:43 PM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][00.37.AD-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Wed 11/03/2010 06:55:43 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.78.3B 13.22.F9 61 13 43 LTOFFRR(43)

Wed 11/03/2010 06:55:43 PM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][14.78.3B-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Wed 11/03/2010 06:55:43 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 03.45.6B 13.22.F9 61 13 43 LTOFFRR(43)

Wed 11/03/2010 06:55:43 PM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][03.45.6B-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Wed 11/03/2010 06:55:43 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 03.61.45 13.22.F9 61 13 43 LTOFFRR(43)

Wed 11/03/2010 06:55:43 PM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][03.61.45-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Wed 11/03/2010 06:55:43 PM : [CLEAN-UP-RPT] 02 58 06

Wed 11/03/2010 06:55:43 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0F.82.A9 13.22.F9 61 13 43 LTOFFRR(43)

Wed 11/03/2010 06:55:43 PM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][0F.82.A9-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

----- SC BSMT Entry Test Results -----

[succeeded] BSMT Stair (3 45 6B 1)

[succeeded] BSMT Bed (14 78 3B 1)

[succeeded] BSMT Fam Cans (0 37 AD 1)

[succeeded] BSMT Lamplinc (F 82 A9 1)

[succeeded] BSMT Video Cans (3 61 45 1)

----- SC BSMT Entry Test Results -----

Wed 11/03/2010 06:55:50 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.43 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

[LeeG]

IndyMike

 

I also have a 99 Pro. The only ISY I have used so no experience with others. With the base firmware being the same I would think the same graphic would appear for pending writes on the non Pro version. Only those options unique to the Pro for controlling the updates would be different (?? maybe??). Only a guess. Hardly a day goes by that some aspect of the ISY is better understood just by following all the forum posts. This forum has such good support by the UDI folks it serves as a great knowledge tool just by following the various questions. Even for areas that I am not currently using.

 

Great little device. Odd If behavior for an experienced programmer to grasp but when in Rome.

 

Lee

[justin.cool]

IndyMike,

 

I do not have the Pro ISY-99. And the green arrows are there, and frankly I didn't know what they meant until now........ As many have noted, learn something everyday.

 

As for your scene test, it is good to see a SUCCEED on more than one device in the scene, something I have never seen! Now I at least know what it should look like.

 

Will report on testing soon.....I have just swapped out the two SWL dimmers with V.35 firmware. Now I can begin retesting.

 

Justin

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello oberkc,

 

I should have been more careful. What I meant was that if the status change causes a program to run which might impact the same devices being tested.

 

I do apologize ...

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

2. Scene tests would surely fail if you have programs that run based on the condition of the devices being tested

 

Really!? If I knew that at one point, I had certainly forgotten. I have potentially been chasing my tail on these scene tests for months (or longer). Could it be they have been failing due to some of my programs activating?

 

There is always something new to learn with this stuff.

[justin.cool]

Michel,

 

Progress has been made! Please read on…….

 

1. Please disable all your programs (on My Programs, click on the Schedule button, uncheck daily, Add to If, and then Save) ... you should see On Never in the condition

2. Remove the batteries out of your RemoteLincs

 

 

Common Conditions:

• All programs disabled for all of the following tests

• Starting point ON

 

Scene Test 38 - Office Floor Fan Test

• Fan and Icon plugged into outlet with the PLM

• Rlinc batteries removed

• Office floor fan (Icon) FAILED

• Test KPL-A SUCCEEDED

 

Scene Test 38.5 – Living Room Evening Scene (relatively complex)

• All devices failed but ONE – See listing below. This is consistent with what I had seen before.

Noticed a lot of thermostat traffic that seemed to coincide with turning the fan on/off manually.

 

Scene Test 38.6 - Living Room Evening Scene (relatively complex)

• Disconnected all thermostat interfaces

• All devices failed

• Noticed the Rlinc traffic again

 

Scene Test 38.7 - Living Room Evening Scene (relatively complex)

• Disabled the Rlinc (batteries were still removed, of course)

• All devices passed but 2, significant progress. I have never seen more than ONE pass since working Scene Test on this scene.

• However, it is worth noting (See event log below) that one device 0F.2D.19, that is NOT even in the scene is responding and it doesn’t seem to bother the results. That device is a KPL in the Breakfast area.

 

Scene Test 38.8 - Living Room Evening Scene (relatively complex)

• A repeat of 38.7, but this time all devices PASSED!

 

Scene Test 38.9 - Living Room Evening Scene (relatively complex)

• A repeat of 38.8, but this time ONLY two passed

 

Scene Test 38.91

• Repeat of 38.9, exact same results

•

Scene Test 40 - Office Floor Fan Test

• Fan and Icon plugged into outlet near PLM, but on alternate phase

• Rlinc batteries removed and disabled

• All thermostat interfaces removed

• Office floor fan (Icon) SUCCEEDED

• Test KPL-A SUCCEEDED

 

Scene Test 42 - Office Floor Fan Test

• Fan and Icon plugged into the same outlet as the PLM

• Rlinc batteries removed and disabled

• All thermostat interfaces removed

• Office floor fan (Icon) SUCCEEDED

• Test KPL-A SUCCEEDED

 

I then ran multiple other scenarios and all passed.

I then re-enabled the Rlinc and immediately the Office Floor Fan Test failed as in Scene Test 38.

 

I then disabled the Rlinc again and plugged all the Thermostat interfaces back in (3 total).

All Scene Tests passed completely, including the Lving Rm Evening Scene.

 

Bottom Line

 

• Problem has been reduced significantly, but not eliminated.

• Rlinc’s and the process of updating them can be very troublesome……..

• Something still seems to be out of whack……e.g why does the device NOT in the living room evening scene keep consistently responding as though it is in the scene?

• Not convinced that the Thermostats are completely innocent in generating spurious traffic.

 

 

SCENE TEST 38.5

 

Thu 11/04/2010 12:05:38 AM : [GRP-RX ] 02 61 10 13 00 06

Thu 11/04/2010 12:05:38 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 10.03.96 0F.D5.9D 61 13 10 LTOFFRR(10)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:05:38 AM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][10.03.96-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

----- Living Rm Evening Scene Test Results -----

[Failed] Lv Rm KPL E 10.03.DB.E (10 3 DB 5)

[Failed] Kit KPL E 10.04.1F (10 4 1F 5)

[succeeded] Dng Rm Keypad E 10.03.96.E (10 3 96 5)

[Failed] Patio Dr KPL A 10.04.F8.1 (10 4 F8 1)

[Failed] Lvng Rm Bar Lites 14.A5.9D (14 A5 9D 1)

[Failed] Piano Standing Lamp (14 2F BD 1)

[Failed] Mantle Puck Lites (14 A4 1D 1)

[Failed] Patio Dr. KPL E 10.04.F8.E (10 4 F8 5)

[Failed] Lvng Rm Sofa Lamp 0A.9C.B9 (A 9C B9 1)

[Failed] Lvng Rm Fplc Wall 0A.9B.FF.1 (A 9B FF 1)

----- Living Rm Evening Scene Test Results -----

Thu 11/04/2010 12:06:00 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.10 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:07:40 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.46 CF 11 00 06 LTONRR (00)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:07:40 AM : [ F FD 95 3] ST 255

Thu 11/04/2010 12:07:40 AM : [ A B6 59 1] ST 255

Thu 11/04/2010 12:07:41 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 11.BF.6F 0F.D5.9D 07 6E 46 (46)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:07:41 AM : [standard-Direct][11.BF.6F-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Thu 11/04/2010 12:07:41 AM : [ 11 BF 6F 1] ST 140

Thu 11/04/2010 12:07:42 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 11.BF.6F 0F.D5.9D 07 6E 46 (46)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:07:42 AM : [standard-Direct][11.BF.6F-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Thu 11/04/2010 12:07:42 AM : Duplicate: ignored

Thu 11/04/2010 12:07:42 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 11.BF.6F 0F.D5.9D 07 6E 46 (46): Process Message: failed

Thu 11/04/2010 12:07:42 AM : [standard-Direct][11.BF.6F-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Thu 11/04/2010 12:07:42 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 11.BF.6F 0F.D5.9D 07 6E 46 (46)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:07:42 AM : [standard-Direct][11.BF.6F-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Thu 11/04/2010 12:07:42 AM : Duplicate: ignored

Thu 11/04/2010 12:07:42 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 11.BF.6F 0F.D5.9D 07 6E 46 (46): Process Message: failed

Thu 11/04/2010 12:07:42 AM : [standard-Direct][11.BF.6F-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Thu 11/04/2010 12:07:43 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 11.BF.6F 0F.D5.9D 07 6E 46 (46)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:07:43 AM : [standard-Direct][11.BF.6F-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Thu 11/04/2010 12:07:43 AM : Duplicate: ignored

Thu 11/04/2010 12:07:43 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 11.BF.6F 0F.D5.9D 07 6E 46 (46): Process Message: failed

Thu 11/04/2010 12:07:43 AM : [standard-Direct][11.BF.6F-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Thu 11/04/2010 12:08:47 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.46 CF 11 00 06 LTONRR (00)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:08:47 AM : [ F FD 95 3] ST 255

Thu 11/04/2010 12:08:47 AM : [ A B6 59 1] ST 255

Thu 11/04/2010 12:08:48 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 11.BF.6F 0F.D5.9D 07 6E 47 (47)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:08:48 AM : [standard-Direct][11.BF.6F-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Thu 11/04/2010 12:08:48 AM : [ 11 BF 6F 1] ST 142

Thu 11/04/2010 12:09:01 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.46 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:09:01 AM : [ F FD 95 3] ST 0

Thu 11/04/2010 12:09:01 AM : [ A B6 59 1] ST 0

Thu 11/04/2010 12:09:10 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 11.BF.14 0F.D5.9D 07 6E 46 (46)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:09:10 AM : [standard-Direct][11.BF.14-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Thu 11/04/2010 12:09:10 AM : [ 11 BF 14 1] ST 140

Thu 11/04/2010 12:09:21 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.46 CF 11 00 06 LTONRR (00)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:09:21 AM : [ F FD 95 3] ST 255

Thu 11/04/2010 12:09:21 AM : [ A B6 59 1] ST 255

Thu 11/04/2010 12:09:43 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.46 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:09:43 AM : [ F FD 95 3] ST 0

Thu 11/04/2010 12:09:43 AM : [ A B6 59 1] ST 0

Thu 11/04/2010 12:09:54 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 11.BF.6F 0F.D5.9D 07 6E 46 (46)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:09:54 AM : [standard-Direct][11.BF.6F-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Thu 11/04/2010 12:09:54 AM : [ 11 BF 6F 1] ST 140

 

 

 

SCENE TEST 38.6

 

Thu 11/04/2010 12:18:17 AM : [GRP-RX ] 02 61 10 13 00 06

----- Living Rm Evening Scene Test Results -----

[Failed] Lv Rm KPL E 10.03.DB.E (10 3 DB 5)

[Failed] Kit KPL E 10.04.1F (10 4 1F 5)

[Failed] Dng Rm Keypad E 10.03.96.E (10 3 96 5)

[Failed] Patio Dr KPL A 10.04.F8.1 (10 4 F8 1)

[Failed] Lvng Rm Bar Lites 14.A5.9D (14 A5 9D 1)

[Failed] Piano Standing Lamp (14 2F BD 1)

[Failed] Mantle Puck Lites (14 A4 1D 1)

[Failed] Patio Dr. KPL E 10.04.F8.E (10 4 F8 5)

[Failed] Lvng Rm Sofa Lamp 0A.9C.B9 (A 9C B9 1)

[Failed] Lvng Rm Fplc Wall 0A.9B.FF.1 (A 9B FF 1)

----- Living Rm Evening Scene Test Results -----

Thu 11/04/2010 12:18:37 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.10 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:18:37 AM : [standard Msg. Handler] Unexpected Ack imCmd=62 cmd1=LTOFFRR 0x13

Thu 11/04/2010 12:18:37 AM : [A 39 8D 1 ] Link 0 : 0FF8 [E2010FD59D000001] *Failed Writing [E2010FD59D000001]

 

SCENE TEST 38.7

 

Thu 11/04/2010 12:22:24 AM : [GRP-RX ] 02 61 10 13 00 06

Thu 11/04/2010 12:22:24 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.9C.B9 0F.D5.9D 61 13 10 LTOFFRR(10)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:22:24 AM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][0A.9C.B9-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Thu 11/04/2010 12:22:24 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0F.D2.19 0F.D5.9D 61 13 FF LTOFFRR(FF)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:22:24 AM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][0F.D2.19-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Thu 11/04/2010 12:22:25 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.A5.9D 0F.D5.9D 61 13 10 LTOFFRR(10)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:22:25 AM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][14.A5.9D-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Thu 11/04/2010 12:22:25 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 10.04.1F 0F.D5.9D 61 13 10 LTOFFRR(10)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:22:25 AM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][10.04.1F-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Thu 11/04/2010 12:22:25 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 10.04.F8 0F.D5.9D 61 13 10 LTOFFRR(10)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:22:25 AM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][10.04.F8-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Thu 11/04/2010 12:22:25 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 10.03.DB 0F.D5.9D 61 13 10 LTOFFRR(10)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:22:25 AM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][10.03.DB-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Thu 11/04/2010 12:22:26 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.2F.BD 0F.D5.9D 61 13 10 LTOFFRR(10)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:22:26 AM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][14.2F.BD-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Thu 11/04/2010 12:22:26 AM : [CLEAN-UP-RPT] 02 58 06

Thu 11/04/2010 12:22:26 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.A4.1D 0F.D5.9D 61 13 10 LTOFFRR(10)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:22:26 AM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][14.A4.1D-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

----- Living Rm Evening Scene Test Results -----

[succeeded] Lv Rm KPL E 10.03.DB.E (10 3 DB 5)

[succeeded] Kit KPL E 10.04.1F (10 4 1F 5)

[Failed] Dng Rm Keypad E 10.03.96.E (10 3 96 5)

[succeeded] Patio Dr KPL A 10.04.F8.1 (10 4 F8 1)

[succeeded] Lvng Rm Bar Lites 14.A5.9D (14 A5 9D 1)

[succeeded] Piano Standing Lamp (14 2F BD 1)

[succeeded] Mantle Puck Lites (14 A4 1D 1)

[succeeded] Patio Dr. KPL E 10.04.F8.E (10 4 F8 5)

[succeeded] Lvng Rm Sofa Lamp 0A.9C.B9 (A 9C B9 1)

[Failed] Lvng Rm Fplc Wall 0A.9B.FF.1 (A 9B FF 1)

----- Living Rm Evening Scene Test Results -----

Thu 11/04/2010 12:22:32 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.10 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:32:25 AM : [ Time] 00:32:26 1(0)

 

SCENE TEST 38.8

 

Thu 11/04/2010 12:37:41 AM : [GRP-RX ] 02 61 10 13 00 06

Thu 11/04/2010 12:37:41 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 10.03.96 0F.D5.9D 61 13 10 LTOFFRR(10)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:37:41 AM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][10.03.96-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Thu 11/04/2010 12:37:41 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.9B.FF 0F.D5.9D 61 13 10 LTOFFRR(10)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:37:41 AM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][0A.9B.FF-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Thu 11/04/2010 12:37:42 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.9C.B9 0F.D5.9D 61 13 10 LTOFFRR(10)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:37:42 AM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][0A.9C.B9-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Thu 11/04/2010 12:37:42 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0F.D2.19 0F.D5.9D 61 13 FF LTOFFRR(FF)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:37:42 AM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][0F.D2.19-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Thu 11/04/2010 12:37:42 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.A5.9D 0F.D5.9D 61 13 10 LTOFFRR(10)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:37:42 AM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][14.A5.9D-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Thu 11/04/2010 12:37:42 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 10.04.1F 0F.D5.9D 61 13 10 LTOFFRR(10)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:37:42 AM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][10.04.1F-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Thu 11/04/2010 12:37:43 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 10.04.F8 0F.D5.9D 61 13 10 LTOFFRR(10)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:37:43 AM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][10.04.F8-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Thu 11/04/2010 12:37:43 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 10.03.DB 0F.D5.9D 61 13 10 LTOFFRR(10)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:37:43 AM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][10.03.DB-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Thu 11/04/2010 12:37:43 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.2F.BD 0F.D5.9D 61 13 10 LTOFFRR(10)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:37:43 AM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][14.2F.BD-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Thu 11/04/2010 12:37:43 AM : [CLEAN-UP-RPT] 02 58 06

Thu 11/04/2010 12:37:43 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.A4.1D 0F.D5.9D 61 13 10 LTOFFRR(10)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:37:43 AM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][14.A4.1D-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

----- Living Rm Evening Scene Test Results -----

[succeeded] Lv Rm KPL E 10.03.DB.E (10 3 DB 5)

[succeeded] Kit KPL E 10.04.1F (10 4 1F 5)

[succeeded] Dng Rm Keypad E 10.03.96.E (10 3 96 5)

[succeeded] Patio Dr KPL A 10.04.F8.1 (10 4 F8 1)

[succeeded] Lvng Rm Bar Lites 14.A5.9D (14 A5 9D 1)

[succeeded] Piano Standing Lamp (14 2F BD 1)

[succeeded] Mantle Puck Lites (14 A4 1D 1)

[succeeded] Patio Dr. KPL E 10.04.F8.E (10 4 F8 5)

[succeeded] Lvng Rm Sofa Lamp 0A.9C.B9 (A 9C B9 1)

[succeeded] Lvng Rm Fplc Wall 0A.9B.FF.1 (A 9B FF 1)

----- Living Rm Evening Scene Test Results -----

Thu 11/04/2010 12:37:49 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.10 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

 

SCENE TEST 38.9

 

Thu 11/04/2010 12:53:35 AM : [GRP-RX ] 02 61 10 13 00 06

Thu 11/04/2010 12:53:35 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 10.03.96 0F.D5.9D 61 13 10 LTOFFRR(10)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:53:35 AM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][10.03.96-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Thu 11/04/2010 12:53:35 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.9B.FF 0F.D5.9D 61 13 10 LTOFFRR(10)

Thu 11/04/2010 12:53:35 AM : [standard-Cleanup Ack][0A.9B.FF-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Thu 11/04/2010 12:53:35 AM : [CLEAN-UP-RPT] 02 58 15

----- Living Rm Evening Scene Test Results -----

[Failed] Lv Rm KPL E 10.03.DB.E (10 3 DB 5)

[Failed] Kit KPL E 10.04.1F (10 4 1F 5)

[succeeded] Dng Rm Keypad E 10.03.96.E (10 3 96 5)

[Failed] Patio Dr KPL A 10.04.F8.1 (10 4 F8 1)

[Failed] Lvng Rm Bar Lites 14.A5.9D (14 A5 9D 1)

[Failed] Piano Standing Lamp (14 2F BD 1)

[Failed] Mantle Puck Lites (14 A4 1D 1)

[Failed] Patio Dr. KPL E 10.04.F8.E (10 4 F8 5)

[Failed] Lvng Rm Sofa Lamp 0A.9C.B9 (A 9C B9 1)

[succeeded] Lvng Rm Fplc Wall 0A.9B.FF.1 (A 9B FF 1)

----- Living Rm Evening Scene Test Results -----

Thu 11/04/2010 12:53:43 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.10 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

[oberkc]

I should have been more careful. What I meant was that if the status change causes a program to run which might impact the same devices being tested.

 

I thought you were sufficiently careful and clear As a result, yesterday afternoon I disable ALL programs (some are triggered based on device status) and ran the scene test. They passed. Every time.

 

I have a couple of troublesome devices, but I have been chasing the noise issue (based on scene test results) without success. Perhaps, now, I can find the real culprit (which I suspect to be the load, itself: LED undercabinet lighing, currently on lutron filters).

[apostolakisl]

YES!

 

Programs enabled seems to have been the issue for me. I disabled all programs and ran at least a dozen scene tests without a single failure. Prior to that every single scene test had at least one failure and most many more.

 

Those pesky details!

 

Might I suggest adding a dialogue box to the scene test window that tells you that you need to disaable your programs. Even better yet, running scene test could automatically disable programs while the test is running. I would include a dialogue box in that case that tells you it is doing that.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello justin.cool,

 

Thanks so very much for the update.

 

By disable you mean disabling on ISY? And, even though you had removed the batteries and it was disabled in ISY, you still got traffic from it?

 

So, the fact that this RL is responding even without batteries could mean two things:

1. There's another device somewhere with the same address

2. The PLM is just spewing out nonsense

 

And, since you had better luck when you were on the same phase means that your phases are not bridged OR you have way too many Access Points (or way too little). The best way to bridge phases is to use Access Points right at the breaker.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[IndyMike]

Apostolakisl and Justin,

 

I'm elated at your success and apologize for leading you in the wrong direction for so long. There was nothing "physically" wrong with your systems - only my misunderstanding of how the Scene test actually functioned. I learned at least as much as you did about the operation of the scene test function. I'm glad you had the fortitude to stick with this.

 

Apparently I've simply been lucky in the way that I've been using the scene test with programs and RF devices. While they say it's better to be lucky than good - the key is knowing the difference. Clearly I did not.

 

IM

[justin.cool]

Michel,

 

Let me clarify, this is a long chain and hard to follow at best! In any case there are some great lessons learned here for me!

 

By disable you mean disabling on ISY? And, even though you had removed the batteries and it was disabled in ISY, you still got traffic from it?

 

I removed the batteries and then saw attempts by the ISY to update it. So I disabled it on the ISY and the traffic stopped. Bottom line is that the following combination of things is what cleared up the failing Scene Tests:

 

1. Disabled the Rlinc to stop any attempts to udpate it.

2. Removed the batteries to make sure no traffic originated from the RLinc.

3. Shut off all the programs per your guidance.

4. Fixed my Venstar 1700 thermostats from putting out humidity updates every few seconds.

 

This allowed the Scene Tests to pass more than one device for the first time ever. Even the complicated scenes passed 80%+ of the time with all the devices.

 

1. I still have some spurious KPL traffic from a device that is NOT in the scene but this KPL is responding in Scene Test anyway.

 

2. I also have seen some thermostat status traffic that is induced when I turn the office fan on / off via the ISY. Have to chase that one down.

 

3. My filtering and phase coupling appears to be OK, but will keep an eye on it.

 

4. Still don't understand why my link count in the PLM is so low, about 357, when I ran the link count twice.

 

All in all, a very good couple of days of rigorous testing that helped me wring out a number of longstanding issues. Thanks for your support, couldn't have done it without you.