Thermostats: Venstar vs. Intwine vs. Bay Controls

[jtara92101]

Interested in others experience with the Venstar, Intwine, and Bay Controls thermostats. I want to keep it at about $200 or less, so not considering other more-costly products.

 

1200 sq ft S. California condo with electric/forced-air/AC. I currently have a 7-day programmable Honeywell. The 7-day schedule hasn't worked out that well for me - when I'm working in an office (not currently) I often work irregular hours. So, the heat/cool turns on when I'm not home. I forget to override when I'm working from home, have to constantly re-override when it goes into another time period. right now, I'm working from home, so this is totally senseless for me. I do like the idea of having the temperature already where I want it when I return, though. It's just terribly wasteful the way it is. With an irregular schedule, that means my waking and sleeping hours are irregular as well, making a 7-day programmable thermostat even more inconvenient.

 

I'd like to use the ISY to more intelligently control the thermostat. Ultimately what I'd like is to be able to hit a button when I leave that will turn off all the lights and set-back the thermostat. Then hit an "I'm home" button when I return to turn on an entry path and put the thermostat back on the current "occupied" schedule. But I'd like to have a default schedule that I can alter some way. I'm an iPhone app developer, so I'll probably write an "app for that" and of course put it in the app store. Anyway, either using the app or some clever keypad usage, I'd be able to override the return time on a one-time basis. With the app, of course, I could do that when I'm away from the house. Of course, a "i'm going to bed button" in the bedroom, with some ability to specify when I plan to wake up. (Again, the app is the best way.) Default, but I can override.

 

The Venstar is convenient, since with the adapter it's a "native" Insteon device, and has no special wiring requirements since it communicate wirelessly. Intwine has the same wireless advantage, but would have to be controlled through the web module. Bay Controls would require a wired connection to my network and AC power, but fortunately, I can do that easily in the thermostat location.

 

I have some misgivings about the Venstar - it seems awkward to program. While they have a 7-day programmable model, there doesn't seem to be a way to remotely set it to a particular "program". You can only override the set-points, right? So, really, if you are going to control it on some schedule with the ISY, you are essentially duplicating the 7-day logic on the ISY and have to constantly have the ISY override as the Venstar moves from schedule to schedule, right?

 

Maybe I don't need the 7-day, then just the 1-day?

 

Really, I'd just like to have 4 daily time slots, and the ability to select the time slot using the ISY. Waking, Daytime, Evening, Sleep. Oh, plus "away". A default 7-day schedule that runs on the thermostat, and the ability to have the ISY override.

 

I'd appreciate comments from people who have any of these three products, and have implemented something like this, as well as additional ideas/refinements to how I'd like to control this. Which product do you think would be most suitable?

[sanders2222]

I’m surprised to find your post has had no responses yet. So here is my 2 cents. I just replaced a Honeywell thermostat with a Venstar T1800, which is the 7 day model. My Honeywell controlled my forced air gas/AC system with just 4 wires where the Venstar needs 5 (there were 8 wires in the feed from my furnace). A quick email response from support at Venstar.com helped me correct the wiring requirements, so hats off to them for doing that.

 

Unlike the Honeywell, you can program each day of the week differently. My Honeywell only allowed me to program Sat, Sun differently and Mon-Fri had to be the same setting. All that said, there are definite advantages to setting all the temperature control through the ISY. I happen to be retired so my time at home varies significantly day to day. Through my Insteon/ISY set-up, my home is either in the away mode or at-home, like the security system. So my ISY will take over control of the t-stat when I’m away,

If
-	No Conditions - (To add one, press ‘Schedule’ or ‘Conditions’)
Then
   Stop Program ‘T-stat Arrive’
   Wait 10 Seconds
   Set ‘Hallways/Venstar T-stat 14.15.51’ 62 (Heat Setpoint)
   Set ‘Hallways/Venstar T-stat 14.15.51’ 80 (Cool Setpoint)

When I arrive home, another ISY program sets the Venstar Mode ’Program Auto’. This allows the 7 day feature of the thermostat to run things. But the ISY could easily be programmed to do that as well. In fact, if you go to bed or get up at different times, the ISY could easily adjust evening/morning requirements. An added feature is the schedule and temperature settings can be tweaked on the fly away from home through web access or smart phone app. So no matter how varied your schedule is, my opinion is this t-stat should meet your needs, and it’s under $200.

 

BTW, you’ll have to learn a new language switching from a Honeywell: Wake=Morning, Leave=Day, Arrive=Evening and Sleep=Night.

[JP]

I did not consider the other vendors that you mentioned, I just went with Venstar. I purchased the T1800 (7day) along with the RF adapter. Since I have an ISY-99, the 7 day or even the 1 day programming capability is a waste. With the ISY-99 you can do so much more. Even in your example, you could replace an Instron switch with a motion detected to indicate that you are home and to change modes. You can access the ISY remotely from PCs and iPhones so you can also makes changes from the office (maybe turn on heat or cool as you leave the office so that the house is comfortable when you get there). I also have a remote so if we're watching a movie and I want change the temp, I can do it without getting up or finding another device.

 

While I have had the T1800 for about a month, I did have to exchange the RF adapter as it kept going asleep. The replacement seems better but I haven't had it long enough to say my problem is fixed. Also, my installation is relatively simple, only a furnace and no A/C. I also remember some issues regarding the humidity function causing issues with the ISY (false reporting) and you may want to search for those. For some reason I vaguely remember that there was a minor difference between the 1 day and 7 day units in this regard.

 

So far, I've been very happy with the T1800 and the only time I touch it is to manually turn on the fan (haven’t tried to program that yet).

 

JP

[ben-smith]

I agree with the others, there's no need to spend money on the 7 day programmable when you can flex your scheduling needs with the ISY. I have the 1 day Venstar and it's working great hooked up to AC / Furnace. I don't have any schedules set because my wife is home all the time, but I'll usually set it back manually as we walk out the door, then use my Smartphone to remotely turn the heat / cool back up when we're about 30 minutes away from home.

 

I don't think I even know how to turn the fan on / off, or set schedules from the T-stat itself, it's been married to the ISY since day one.

[ben-smith]

I also remember some issues regarding the humidity function causing issues with the ISY (false reporting) and you may want to search for those. For some reason I vaguely remember that there was a minor difference between the 1 day and 7 day units in this regard.

JP

 

You're right, the 7 day thermostat is capable of accepting the optional humidity module, the 1 day thermostat is not.

 

I already have the 1 day thermostat, I'll buy the 7 day, plus the humidity module to replace it. I'm going to move the 1 day into the garage to control just the heat side. (I have a Modine garage heater)

 

Then I'll use the ISY to poll for the humidity levels, and trigger the aprilaire unit on/off using an IOlinc.

[jtara92101]

I would-up purchasing the 7-day programmable Venstar and the humidity module. I choose the Venstar because of the built-in isy support.

 

Haven't really set it up yet, not sure how to go about doing what I want to do. Unfortunately, it is probably going to require a program running on my Linux box, which is not a practical solution for most. For example, there's no way to do temperature monitoring on the isy. Yes, it can do comparisons and react to conditions, but isn't able to store a history, charting, etc. because of the limited programming capability of the isy.

[jtara92101]

So, the Venstar is basically worthless for the purpose I'd intended. It unreliably reports temperature and humidity - sometimes it shows up in the isy admin program, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it shows that the fan is on when the fan is off.

 

But there's no practical way for a program to capture or act on most of that data, anyway. A program can test if the fan is on or off (but can't be relied-on). The way you "capture" the temperature and setpoint is seriously retarded. Because the isy has no variables or arithmetic operations, all you can do is laboriously test for each possible temperature or setpoint value, and "do something" based on the test.

 

So, let's say you want to chart temperature. Obviously you will need some external program, running on some computer or device other than the isy, in order to do the data storage and charting. How you'd actually get that data to the external device is painful.

 

First, you'd need the Network module. Then, you'd need to write an isy program that laboriously tests each and every possible setpoint, temperature, and humidity value:

 

If Status Thermostat - Main is 1 degree (temperature)

(Send 1 degree to data collection program)

Or If Status Thermostat - Main is 2 degrees (temperature)

(Send 2 degree to data collection program)

.

.

.

 

Probably going to return the Venstar to Smarthome and get some other "smart" thermostat and forget about integrating with the isy. Just too much trouble for little benefit.

[sanders2222]

So, the Venstar is basically worthless for the purpose I'd intended.

From your original post, I read you wanted "to control the thermostat so it was on when you worked in your condo, and (turned down) when you were away."

I'd like is to be able to hit a button when I leave that will turn off all the lights and set-back the thermostat. Then hit an "I'm home" button when I return to turn on an entry path and put the thermostat back on the current "occupied" schedule.

The Venstar can do that nicely through any Insteon device link (like shutting off a light) or through an ISY program. An iphone app could also command the thermostat though the ISY.

It unreliably reports temperature and humidity - sometimes it shows up in the isy admin program, sometimes it doesn't.

You may have a communication issue between the thermostat and PLM. See other posts on this issue.

So, let's say you want to chart temperature. Obviously you will need some external program, running on some computer or device other than the isy, in order to do the data storage and charting.

If you're more interested in reporting and graphing historic with some remote control capability, it seems the Intwine product could work for you. Of the two products in your original post, the Intwine web site indicates the thermostat provides reporting and control through your WiFi and other applications (iphone). From Bay Control's web site, they claim it can provide reporting but I did see mention of control. But you probably know all the features those products provide. A third option that may provide what your looking for is Homeseer.

[JP]

jtara92101,

 

I'm a little interested in your last message because I can't really relate it to the response posts to your original questions.

 

I think that over-all, most folks on this forum would say that the Venstar products with the Insteon adapter is a very good combination, particularly when used with a ISY-99 controller. Without the ISY-99, I would never have purchased the Venstar or any other product. The ISY-99 always shows the device and I can program whatever I like with it. If I have any concern (and if you look at all my prior posts, I have a very dirty environment), it can only be that the individual adapters may fail. Big deal, we have lemon laws to protect us from $40k car purchases but when you dealing at this level, give me a break.

 

Yes, I pointed out the humidity problem with the one day version of the t-stat because it was something that I noticed and felt that it was a good due diligence observation. While I was aware of the issue, it did not stop me from buying the product. In fact, it help as I felt good that I knew what I was getting into.

 

My bottom line is that I am very, very happy with my Venstar T-1800 t-stat (having gone from a very old Honeywell analog t-stat). I do not use it's programming capability because the ISY-99 far exceeds it. I have it programmed to turn on a half hour before getting home everyday. It automatically turns off ever morning as we leave. If for some reason it comes on during that day (my wife comes home early) it sends a message to my phone (love the custom notifications BTW). I can remote to the ISY-99 via several means to review and control what is happening while I'm gone. I even had a motion detector running for a while to detect when we were in a particular room and turn on the heat while there.

 

Yes, if you review my messages, I have issues with messages/commands getting lost but the ability of the ISY-99 to program around these issues, to me is the real value to this combination. Yes, the ISY-99 requires programming but that is the market that it sells into.

 

Sorry to rant (I'm not as nice as sanders) but I love my ISY-99 and my Venstar T-1800 and while the RF adapters could be a little better, over-all, this is a great product combination. My personal opinion is that anything that works with the ISY-99 is worth looking at.

[Sub-Routine]

The ISY uses the log file to create charts.

 

 

Or you can view the log file and use a filter.

 

[someguy]

One other small tidbit:

 

I had to get the venstar t1800 to be able to use the remote temp sensor. I wanted to be able to sense and run the thermostat from the remote sensor. The t1700 won't do that.

[jtara92101]

Thanks for pointing-out the logging!

 

I think I was thinking backwards on how to get the data to a server. Instead of having the ISY send the data to the server, have the server poll using the REST interface. This also has the plus of not needing to purchase a module.

 

I've done some searches, and haven't been able to find any software for doing climate management and statistics with the isy/Venstar. Well, there are some comprehensive home automation packages primarily for Windows and OSX (but at least one for Linux), but these are more than I want (particularly the Linux one, which includes DVR, DLNA server for home theatre, etc.).

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello jtara92101,

 

Publish/subscribe mechanism (sending events to a server) is part of ISY's framework and you do NOT need to purchase any modules for this functionality. What you need is the WSDK and just have your server subscribe to ISY.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[jtara92101]

Michael, to clarify: by "WSDK" are you referring to the SOAP interface? I didn't see anything like that in REST. Is there written documentation for the WSDK, (other than the interface itself)?

 

Is anyone aware of existing software that collects thermostat data (other than Homeseer, etc.)

[jtara92101]

Having a problem switching back to PROGRAM AUTO in a "home" after going to AUTO and changing setpoints in an "away" program.

 

See this post:

 

http://forum.universal-devices.com/view ... 3535#43535

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi,

 

WSDK documentation:

http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewforum.php?f=62

 

What happens if you query the thermostat? Does it correct the problem?

 

As far as I remember, you have to set the set points for Program Auto manually and they stick (cannot be changed except from the thermostat itself). At least that was the case with V1 thermostats ... I am not sure about V2.

 

With kind regards,

Michel